Similarities between Hindutva and Islamism

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by civfanatic, Jul 4, 2013.

  1. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    One can observe many similarities between the ideologies of "Hindutva", or "Hindu Nationalism" (oxymoron), and old-fashioned Islamism. The influence of Islamism on "Hindu" ideology can be traced back to the founding of Arya Samaj in the 19th century, at the very latest. In addition to reconciling monotheism with "Hinduism", Arya Samaj also treated the Vedas in much the same way that a Muslim would treat the Quran, i.e. as an infallible source of divine knowledge handed down directly from God. This will be more clear in the example illustrated below.

    Associated with this Islamization of "Hinduism", was the change in the meaning of the term "dharma". Dharma cannot be translated directly into English, but it refers, broadly speaking, to the organization and conduct of Indic society and polity. However, "dharma" as an operating and organizing principle of Indian society and polity has long been dead, as the current Republic of India is organized primarily around Western lines. Our political system, judicial system, and legal system are all based on Western models. One might argue that some of our current customary laws, such as the Hindu code bills, represent a "continuity" of sorts with our ancient past. But in reality, even these laws are heavily shaped by the influence of Islamic civilization, as I will show below (I have already made this post five times, btw, but no Hindu has replied to it):
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    An interesting example of the Islamization of Hinduism that I recently stumbled upon was a statement by Shastra Dharma Prachar Sabha (henceforth abbreviated SDPS) in the years shortly following India's Independence, regarding the Hindu Code Bills. SDPS was vociferously opposed to several aspects of the proposed reforms to Hindu marriage law, including the introduction of divorce, provision for intercaste marriage, and moves against bigamy (so much for "Hindu liberalism"). These views are startling in themselves for their backwardness and disregard for basic human dignity, especially those of women. But what was really interesting to me, was the justification that SDPS gave for their views. They said, and I quote, "The [Hindu Code] bills go against fundamental principles of the Hindu Shastras, God's spoken words, on which the society is based." (end quote).

    Link: Religious Conscience, the State, and the Law: Historical Contexts and ... - Google Books

    The reference to "God's spoken words" is a clearly Abrahamic and, in particular, Quranic, view of a religious-legal tradition. SDPS was legitimizing their views in much the same way that a Sunni Muslim qadi would. Such a view is alien to Dharmic tradition, since "dharma" as a religious-legal tradition was never historically legitimized in the same way that the Muslims (for example) legitimized the Sharia, i.e. by appealing directly to "God" and claiming that the Sharia was the infallible word of God himself. Ancient Dharmics did not have such a view of their religious-legal tradition, because they did not share the Abrahamic concept of "God" in the first place, and the idea of a body of law being infallible because it is "God's Spoken Word" would have made little sense to ancient Indians. The views of SDPS, the self-proclaimed "authority" on "dharma" and Dharmic religious-legal tradition, was using Abrahamic terms to describe and justify their views! This is hardly unique to the SDPS, and can be observed across pseudo-Dharmic modern "Hindus", who are unable to understand the civilization that they profess to belong to, because their 'roots' lie more in the Islamic and Western civilizations than they are willing or able to recognize.
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    In this thread, we can discuss many other similarities between Hindutva and Islamism.
    @Singh @LurkerBaba @Known_Unknown @The Messiah
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  3. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Boy oh boy, this thread is gonna be fun. I am waiting for someone to get the ball rolling.
     
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  4. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Are you capable of responding to any points that I raise, or can you only post alarmist articles about Hindus succumbing to riddah?
     
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  5. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    You have been giving the one example repeatedly. Hell I spent all last night debating you on this so what's the point?
     
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  6. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    I keep posting that one example repeatedly because no Hindu has yet to reply to it.

    Instead, they continue to engage in useless intellectual masturbation.
     
  7. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Here is another example which may be more down-to-earth, and I'm sure many of you are familiar with.

    Hardline Islamists have traditionally been opposed to Valentine's Day and its amorous connotations, not only in India but also in other countries like Indonesia.

    Little love for Valentine's Day from hardline Muslim groups - CBS News

    Indian Media Reports On Valentine’s Day Reactions By Indian Islamic Groups, Hindu Nationalist Organizations | The Muslim Today

    Valentine's Day still controversial in Pakistan: Islamic groups protest holiday as sinful - YouTube


    But it is not only hardline Islamists who are opposed to Valentine's day and open displays of romance, but also our very own Hindutva mujtahids!

    Look at these fanatics:
    Bajrang Dal Warns Against Valentine's Day In MP - YouTube
     
  8. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    WTF? :rofl:

    I am the only author/editor of this piece, and I am no Christian.
     
  9. PredictablyMalicious

    PredictablyMalicious Punjabi Senior Member

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    Believe me I got no love for Hinduism or any religion for that matter, but I'll take hinduism over islam every single time.
     
  10. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    IMHO Arya Samaj and even Vivekananda didn't re-invent Hinduism in the image of Islam, rather they wanted a Dharmic core with an Abrahamic shell. Basically, some semblance of political unity minus the history-centric baggage.

    IIRC Vivekananda said he wanted "an Islamic body with a Vedantic mind".
     
  11. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    Let him satisfy his frustration via comparing Hinduism and Islam from a Christian author's point of view, why to make personal attacks ? enjoy it :pop:

    Do you see any virtuous/meaningful/creative sense/intention behind opening this thread ? I can't, and he want replies in such idiotic threads.
     
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  12. natarajan

    natarajan Senior Member Senior Member

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    a thread based on google book ? where our dfi heading towards.Since there is no much progress in defence ,members shifted to this kind of threads ?
     
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  13. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I actually agree with you. If one has to have organized religion, Hinduism is anyday preferable to Islam. More importantly, a Hindu society is much more preferable to a Muslim society. Our nation would have been radically different had we been a Muslim nation.
     
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  14. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    Are you also going to get the new book on Vivekananda by Malhotra?
     
  15. LordOfTheUnderworlds

    LordOfTheUnderworlds Regular Member

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    double post
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2013
  16. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    The RSS and VHP are totally against caste though. I don't see any "Manuvadi" type of ideologies but rather aggressive promotion of nationalism based on India's Hindu heritage.
     
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  17. LordOfTheUnderworlds

    LordOfTheUnderworlds Regular Member

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    Originally the word hindutva was coined by v.d.savarkar who was self proclaimed atheist and in his opinion, 'cow is just an useful animal.' 'Hindutva' according to. him supposedly refers to cultural nationalism and NOT religion or sect. however his right wing organization (hindu mahasabha I think) soon became irrelevant and the term hijacked by other right wingers. (reminds me of jinnah and his 'liberal' speech and how he was sidelined by real islamists while at the same time making him into godlike figure).

    BUT, for all practical purposes, the term hindutva is used as a smokescreen for propogating and glorifying Brahminism/caste system/ caste supremacism/ nonsense puranic literature/shastras by orthodox sanatanvadis.

    such discussion will go nowhere because everyone will have different interpretation of the term, most will use it interchangeably with 'hinduism' which itself is a confusing term that can be twisted according to your own convenience. so everyone will be talking in different language facing different direction and abusing each other.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2013
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  18. Das ka das

    Das ka das Tihar Jail Banned

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    But yes I do realize how current BJP politics especially in UP-Bihar is a Brahmin-Bania monopoly.
     
  19. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    I would also prefer a Hindu nation over a Muslim one, simply because I have a Hindu name and was born in a Hindu family, and can easily pass off as a Hindu.

    If I was born in a Muslim family, I would probably have the opposite opinion.

    After all, the only reason our Hindus are Hindus is because they were born as such, isn't it? The same could be said about most other religious people. They simply follow what their parents/elders tell them without ever questioning it, like sheep.
     
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  20. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Can you elaborate some more on this?
     
  21. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    What exactly does that mean? I mean, how would a religion with "Islamic body and Vedantic body" look like in reality?
     

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