Should the Indian Armed forces be loyal to the nation or to the govt ?

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by arya, Aug 30, 2010.

  1. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    Guys today the condition is very bad for India we have two main external enemy china and Pakistan and more internal enemy

    my question is "is force loyal to nation or govt?"

    sometime force has to act and make some pressure on govt to act in favor of nation but in india, i am sorry to say, Indian officer are loyal to govt not nation

    govt and nation are not the same thing

    why our Indian force is forgetting their loyalty toward the nation

    what you guys think

    govt and nation are same thing or two different thing
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2010
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  3. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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    It should be loyal to the government. The day a military decides to be "loyal to the nation", it will stage a military coup, and that would be damning for the country.
     
  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The Forces are loyal to the Nation and the Nation is represented by the will of the people which takes form of the Government.

    Therefore, the Forces are loyal to the Nation since they are loyal to the Government - the citizen's representation of their collective will!

    If the Forces were to show loyalty to the Nation by pressurising the Govt, then the Indian Armed Forces would be just like the Pakistanis!

    Surely that is no example to follow!
     
  5. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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    First thing the govt has to be loyal to the nation, then automatically everything goes right, govt. should have the control of military otherwise we have a living example of what would happen if military comes to power, Pak.
     
  6. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    All nations are in the shape and the form of a NATION STATE or simply a STATE

    The cadets at the IMA take an oath which among other things says " will serve wherever AS ORDERED by the president".
    The president represents the STATE . The armed forces are the instruments of the "STATE"

    The INDIAN STATE is governed by a duly elected GOVERNMENT .

    So the armed forces are loyal to the GOVERNMENT.AND THE GOVERNMENT IS LOYAL TO THE PEOPLE.
     
  7. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Let the Forces be loyal to govt and answerable to them only.

    We dont want the Forces having more power in civil administration. See Pak if u know what i mean.
     
  8. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Isn't it that constitutionally, the Indian Armed Forces are a part of the Government, as its under the administration of the Ministry of Defence and its Supreme Commander is the President of India?
     
  9. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    its a civilian setup we have, the armed forces are answerable to the government of the day, the government of the day in turn is answerable to the people of this country who in turn represents the nation. there are no two ways to it. under the garb of serving the national interest they should never be allowed to by pass the political/bureaucratic/judicial system in place. they are like any other institution in the country that serves the nation.

    we have seen what a mockery goes on in pakistan all the drama done by their army sighting national interests, and it is their will to serve those same national interests that has made sure that today and for the past so many years they have been listed as a failed state, a state that cant feed itself, and looks to others for aid. thank you, but i am happy my and my country's national interests being served by the government that i vote in every 5 years.
     
  10. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    Army, bureaucracy, judiciary, police and politicians are all part of the state machinery. And the elected Govt head this state machinery. The Govt represents the people as it is elected by them. And people represent the nation.

    Pakistan has given a very high priority to their armed forces and have suffered its consequencies. In that country, Generals are demi gods who rule from behind the curtain. This martial rule has rendered their country worthless. India is aware of this. So, India has consciously chosen to undermine army by giving higher priority to babus. India has chosen opposite of what Pakistan has done. But both the extremes are dangerous. India has also suffered many delays in security issues due to pointless bureaucratic hurdles. It is time India should give up its paranoia about Pakistan and move ahead independently. The best way for India is to find a right balance in Army, Bureaucracy, Politicians and Judiciary. There must be checks and balances for all the wings. Each wing must be able to restrain another wing if it ever is going rouge.

    If in future, any GOI gets ready to sell the national security, then army must have enough clout to counter that.
     
  11. Indianrabbit

    Indianrabbit Regular Member

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    I see an worry in this thread, trust me we are not doing that bad. I know we are worried about defense procurement delays and all that. Some people think our politicians are not loyal to country which is not fact. Please be patient, we are slowly but surely improving our defense and in coming years 2,3 years onwards we will be well placed.

    I had a conversation with someone from NIA while I was in India. I was shocked to know that these guys have built decent capabilities in India in very short span of time. If there is not much of terrorism in India recently it is not just good luck.
     
  12. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Looking at the way our soldiers get treated at the hands of these corrupt politicians and the response they get for their daring work, I think the tri-services should be loyal to the nation. When governments go corrupt and inefficient, it is the Armed forces that decide what's right. Look at Turkey; whenever there is a corrupt government in its past, there have been threats of coups and good democracy has come by. This is dedication to the country.

    COUP WILL NEVER HAPPEN IN INDIA BECAUSE ALL 3 SERVICE CHIEFS ARE INDEPENDENT OF EACH OTHER.

    But I feel that troops should be loyal to the nation and its people rather than corrupt bureaucrats when things go as bad as what it is today in India.
     
  13. prateikf

    prateikf Regular Member

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    we are being ruled by a bunch of crooks who are just interested in getting a 500% hike in their salaries. every day a new scam breaks out each bigger than the previous one. the armed forces should be loyal towards the nation and act as a check on these politicians who have an absolutely free ride now- no one to keep them in check at all.
     
  14. Indianrabbit

    Indianrabbit Regular Member

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    Agreed about corruption and I'll treatment but things are not as bad as we think. Also things are getting better by the day as we are progressing and getting mature. Armed forces are loyal to nation, the question is are we giving them their fare share and respect. I think we need to do some work in this area but it is not limited to politicians, how about common man? Apart from lip service what have we done?
     
  15. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Who selects the politicians to come to power?
     
  16. Indianrabbit

    Indianrabbit Regular Member

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    Politicians come from within, we as a public are corrupt to the core. How many of us leave any opportunity to save Income Tax?
    The employees of government who take bribe are common man. We need to change the attitude before blaming just politicians.
     
  17. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Indian forces can put or pitch their case to govt. in power if it has something to with national security and issues. Not always the other way around. What i can see here that force has taken this for guarantee that only at the Political will the army is supposed to react. Forces hasn't given answer to Indians why the kargil happened yet. The system seem to be at deep winter sleep but may awake only at a loud whistle which was supposed to be functional, reactive and alert at all the times. The pacifist politics is contagious and forces are not immune against it.

    There are many other issue where army is sitting ideal doing nothing but bureaucracy of political correctness, when at the same time they are witnessing depletion of forces to critical level where the traditional enemies will super pass them in very near future.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2010
  18. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

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    my question is any armed forces capturing or one say overthrowing a selected national government. or in other words military coup(as they call) is related to size of the country. look india is huge and armed forces would require support from every other paramalitray forces/local police to carry out admimnstration after miltraary coup and support in large number for coup is not possible. but in case of pakistan first its small second its gets support from every other paramilitrary, police foece also other oppstiomn poltical party are ready to support pakistan army in case of militrary coup.

    so my question is ones nation size plays an important role whether military coup can be carried out or not
     
  19. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    well i want to tell you the fact the gap between India and china in 1990-2000 was in ratio 1 :1.7 and now the gap is now in ratio 1:3 and gap is increasing in every sector just because of our govt

    well if you see all agency are loyal to leaders for example CBI,STATE POLICE ARM FORCE and you can see the reuslt nation is going down
     
  20. Sabir

    Sabir DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    The Armed Force and the Government - both are made by people like you and me. Is there any gurantee that Army will not be corrupted as the most of the politicians once it has the absolute power. Some instances are already there- in our country as well as in many other countries. Let us not encourage this type of discussion instead ask ourselves what we have done to get rid of corruption.
     
  21. NikSha

    NikSha Regular Member

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    OF COURSE. I can see how army being in charge has benefited __(insert country name)__ and how it is the sign of true freedom.

    Quick, someone throw in some random figures pointlessly comparing India with China.
     

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