Should muslim nations have only dictators ??

[Singh]

To the original question.
What do you mean by muslim nation ? A country where a majority (absolute majority) are muslims ? Then No.

 

[Tolaha]

my friend who has been to India
he said the poverty situation in India is so worse that one cannot even imagine it in Pakistan
he said in Mumbai the beggars are 8 times more than ordinary people
he further said none of the footpath is free at night and there is no place left even to walk on footpath
he further said poor people has written there name over the footpath so that no one take his place

My friend knew a Pakistani who was gay. This can only mean one thing.... all Pakistanis are gay!

 

[Singh]

if so is the care than India so much more unstable than Pakistan

by problems i meant the bombing and killings

this is more of an civil

Absolute horse puckey. Pakistan has no rule of law, whatsoever.

In "janubi" Punjab and Sindh, landlords control everything. They have their own armies, jails, slaves etc.
In rural Sindh no one dares travel at night, and very few risk traveling during day.
Karachi is a battlezone. One of the most violent cities in the world.
KP/NWFP and Balochistan are no go areas.
And then there are tribal wars, and sectarian wars.

Pakistan has always enjoyed less poverty and a much better standard of living than India even at present

Actually this is horsepuckey again.
Indians are several times richer than Pakistanis, per capita. The juxtaposition in India is much more severe, hence the perception.

A 10 kanal(5000sq meter) plot in a posh area in Delhi(Aurangzeb Road) costs 100million$, in Mumbai(Bandra) would cost 600million$ which would cost 1.5million$ in Lahore(Defence), and 3million$ in Karachi(Clifton)

my friend who has been to India
he said the poverty situation in India is so worse that one cannot even imagine it in Pakistan
he said in Mumbai the beggars are 8 times more than ordinary people
he further said none of the footpath is free at night and there is no place left even to walk on footpath
he further said poor people has written there name over the footpath so that no one take his place

What BS. Anyone who has seen Bombay would disagree.

Pakistan has been a much better country than India living a life with good standard
but the last few years were Indeed very worse

What do you mean by good standard ? Banning Indian channels during Ramzan so that people goto the mosques ? Suffering 18 hour power cuts a day ? or dying of dengue ?

No Pakistani city has a public transport system

while you guys take billions of aid nor the sake of poverty while invest that money into military equipment and space Program(British media says so)

India and Indians are one of the largest investors in London.

 

[hit&run]

The kind of bigotry these Muslim states statute the connotation of democracy and secularism like words becomes derogative and cheap. Values of civilized world are assured relegated if it is a Muslim state irrespective of ruled by anyone.

At least dictators can be convinced by other nations, act as a better medium to deal with and act decisively otherwise sham democracy like Pakistan where one mullah can make rest of the nation including its leadership to 'knee-chest' position; its hard to predict out comes and invest your money and trust in.

 

[Virendra]

No Pakistani city has a public transport system

Actually they're trying to get Gujarat officials help for this regarding one of their cities.
Recently there was a thread here discussing the same.

 

[Singh]

Actually they're trying to get Gujarat officials help for this regarding one of their cities.
Recently there was a thread here discussing the same.

which city ? If its Karachi, then forget it. There will be a war between various interest groups.

 

[Virendra]

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/pakistan/41561-lahore-get-indian-help-bus-system.html

A 32-km-long corridor for the Rs22-billion first phase of the Bus Rapid Transit System (BRTS), being built in Lahore, will soon get help from experts from the Indian city of Ahmedabad

Dr Nasir Javed, Chief Executive Officer (CEO) the Urban Unit of Lahore, who was here to participate in the Asia BRTS conference, told journalists that the Turkey's Istanbul city BRTS model was chosen for Lahore's rapid transport project after studying the bus services in 10 countries but he was now bowled over by the globally-acclaimed Ahmedabad system.

Ahmedabad municipal commissioner G. Mohapatra told Khaleej Times that even Karachi was interested in the city's BRTS and officials of the two Pakistani cities had been interacting with him for the past few months on the subject.

 

[Apollyon]

muslim majority countries should have a union like eu
and discuss all the matter together

but now many muslim countries are expanding there military with Iran another potential nuclear power

i guess by 2030 things will be pretty much on muslim countries side

and apart from ksa most of muslim countries will have democracy

from where did you get these numbers ?
You read a report or did some research, what was the criteria ?
Or, it was just some random guess .

 

[Armand2REP]

It is an interesting question. I don't think it applies to all Islamic nations, but certainly to some. Educated countries do have the ability to govern themselves. Poor nations with strong Wahhabi leanings need a firmer hand.

 

[Virendra]

from where did you get these numbers ?
You read a report or did some research, what was the criteria ?
Or, it was just some random guess .

May be this would help him find the real statistics.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...vey-pakistan-2012-full-report.html#post571104

 

[Zarvin]

It is not a question of the thread starter wanting.

It is the Gospel Truth that Islamic countries are attuned to a strong hand to give guidance - call it dictatorship, Sultans or whatever.

Wherever there are attempts to have democracy, it has floundered. Iraq and Pakistan are good examples. They are the most unstable countries of the world. They are still seeking their identities, let alone anything more substantive!

It's the perception they have with dictatorships, that though they are less free, economic stability and their security is guaranteed. the GDP growth of Pakistan under dictatorships and democracies bears witness to this. Although in future, democracy will always be the pledge of the people, regardless.

 

[Zarvin]

Odd that you gloat about the CJ sacking the PM.

I am afraid that is what I am saying.

You all have no idea of democracy and all you understand is strong handling and without rationale.

That is why you are most comfortable with military dictatorship.

You have not even read my post or understood law.

No CJ or Court can sack anyone if it does not contravene a Law promulgated by the Parliament.

The Parliament is SUPREME. It is VOX POPULI, VOX DEI.

The Supreme Court can solely interpret the Law and if Constitutional Provisions have been violated can throw the law out.

In the case of PM Gilani, he was perfunctorily thrown out without any commentary of any violation of the Law passed by the Parliament or violation of the Constitution.

That is Dadagiri.

And why is no one making noise?

It is because none has the guts in Pakistan to taken on the heavy hand that has guided Pakistan all through - the Army!

In fact he was in violation of the consitution, I can't remember the name right now, but there's an article in the constitution which allows the court to disqualify members of the Parliment.

 

[Ray]

It's the perception they have with dictatorships, that though they are less free, economic stability and their security is guaranteed. the GDP growth of Pakistan under dictatorships and democracies bears witness to this. Although in future, democracy will always be the pledge of the people, regardless.

Read Lethal Force's post.

In fact he was in violation of the consitution, I can't remember the name right now, but there's an article in the constitution which allows the court to disqualify members of the Parliment.

When you remember, let us know.

 

[Zarvin]

Read Lethal Force's post.

Which post #number is that?

When you remember, let us know.

Article 63g1

 

[Ray]

You mean this

(g) he has been convicted by a court of competent jurisdiction for propagating any opinion, or acting in any manner, prejudicial to the ideology of Pakistan, or the sovereignty, integrity or security of Pakistan, or morality, or the maintenance of public order, or the integrity or independence of the judiciary of Pakistan, or which defames or brings into ridicule the judiciary or the Armed Forces of Pakistan, unless a period of five years has elapsed since his release; or

Well, does it know show how ridiculous is the claim that Pakistan is a democracy?

Can't defame/ ridicule the Judiciary or Armed Forces?

Why are they Holy Cows?

They can do no wrong?

Even if that be the case, how has the PM defamed or ridiculed the Judiciary?

Not agreeing to an arbitrary order that is ultra vires since it is contrary to the Law passed by the Parliament is not ridiculing or defaming the Judiciary.

 

[Zarvin]

You mean this



Well, does it know show how ridiculous is the claim that Pakistan is a democracy?

Can't defame/ ridicule the Judiciary or Armed Forces?

Why are they Holy Cows?

They can do no wrong?

Even if that be the case, how has the PM defamed or ridiculed the Judiciary?

Not agreeing to an arbitrary order that is ultra vires since it is contrary to the Law passed by the Parliament is not ridiculing or defaming the Judiciary.

Ummm. Contempt of court was the reason, not sending a letter to the swiss banks to open up old charges against the President Zardari, who has stolen the Publics money.

 

[Ray]

Ummm. Contempt of court was the reason, not sending a letter to the swiss banks to open up old charges against the President Zardari, who has stolen the Publics money.

How can the Court overrule a law without giving rules as to how it has violated the Constitution?

It is only when the Constitutional provisions are violated can the Court overrule an Act passed by the Parliament.

Under the Act passed where in Zardari and others got amnesty.

Further note this:

Pak SC Annuls Law Meant to Protect PM From Dismissal

Pakistan's Supreme Court today struck down the government's new contempt law, aimed to prevent the premier being pressured to revive graft cases against President Asif Ali Zardari, setting the stage for the possible disqualification of Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf.

A five-judge bench headed by Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry ruled that the Contempt of Court Act of 2012 was "unconstitutional" and struck it down......

The order issued by the court said: "Thus, having been left with no constitutional option, Contempt of Court Act 2012 is declared unconstitutional, void and non est, as a consequence whereof...It is declared that the Contempt of Court Ordinance 2003 shall be deemed to have revived..."

President Zardari had on July 12 signed into law the new Contempt of Court Act after it was passed by the two houses of Parliament.

The law was aimed at saving Prime Minister Ashraf from possible disqualification by the apex court for refusing to reopen corruption cases against Zardari in Switzerland.

The government had contended that the option of initiating contempt of court proceedings against the premier for not acting on the apex court's order had ended with the passage of the new Contempt of Court Act.......

The Supreme Court's order said the new contempt of court law had reduced the powers of the courts and provided immunity to government functionaries that violated constitutional provisions.

Pak SC Annuls Law Meant to Protect PM From Dismissal | news.outlookindia.com

*****************

So the Judiciary is supreme over the Executive.

That is democracy?

What Constitution provisions have been violated?

I am sure the Pakistani newspapers would give the Judgement in detail.

It would be nice if you could append these so that the issue can be understood.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

There is really only one or two muslim countries which could be democratic as defined by the West.
One is Turkey and they are becoming more fundementalist so I don't know how this bodes for the other
nations. Why does a country have to be democratic ? If the people of the nation are happy with their
way of life why do they have to be democratic??

 

[Yusuf]

Seeing the current state of affairs, the question should be should Muslims be allowed a country? Sad but true fact is that the so called Muslim countries have become hot beds for fundamentalist agenda pushed by teir dictators to keep control over their country.

More and more Muslims are bothered more about their religion waiting to explode on the slightest pretext than bother about earning for their families and leading a good life. They have a skewed everything and wants the entire world to look from their narrow prism rather than expanding their horizon by adorning modern methods. Thekedari is a bad thing. Every Muslim nation wants to be a bigger thekedar than the other and ends up falling in further abyss.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Many times the dictatorship becomes a breeding ground for the fundementalists.
People become depressed and only have their faith to turn to and others take
advantage by interpreting the religion with an agenda behind it so followers believe
the cause is a measure of how religious you are.