Should India try to join NATO?

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by Aruni, May 21, 2011.

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Should India try to join NATO?

  1. Yes

    14.8%
  2. No

    79.5%
  3. Not sure

    5.7%
  1. Aruni

    Aruni Regular Member

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    I feel that the non-aligned movement is absolutely useless in serving India's foreign policy, geopolitical and diplomatic interests. As a largely poor country (sorry to break this so brutally to the mypoic chest thumpers amongst us), India needs strong alliances in order to punch above its weight in global matters. In a way the G20 has helped us, but it is largely a talking shop. We are not part of any major security framework that could, for instance, deter adventure seekers in Beijing to try something funny in Arunachal in 15 years' time.

    I believe that India belongs in the league of the world's free nations and has nothing to fear to align itself whole-heartedly with the United States, the European Union, Japan and other like-minded countries. It does not mean breaking off old relationships (e.g. with Russia), but we have to undertake a cost-benefit analysis of being in (as opposed to being out) of a security umbrella. With 1 million soldiers, 800 combat aircraft, a blue water navy, a nuclear arsenal and most importantly, the world's largest democracy, India is a strong candidate for joining NATO.

    The thought may give heart-attacks to people who can't think out of the box, but I say it is a good organisation to be part of. In return for committing troops to NATO operations and defending attacks on other NATO member states, it would in an instance put the armies of America, Britain, France, Japan, among others, between our sovereignty and the intentions of a certain rogue neighbour in the north.

    It may mean India has to allow NATO military bases in some strategic spots (e.g. the Andamans) and I say why not? Contrary to the xenophoebia quite often present in India, we have nothing to fear from the West. In fact we have a lot to learn and gain from them. So let's stop dithering and throw our lot in with the world's civilised and free nations.
     
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  3. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    We will require major continental plate shift to reach the Atlantic to join NATO!!

    Seriously though, NATO will jot take india in. India can be part of another security deal which was at one point tried but didn't work out. It involved the US, Japan, South Korea, Australia along with India.

    It might still work out in the future considering the changing geo political scenario. Europe though will not get involved. It will be US and it's allies in Asia.
     
  4. debasree

    debasree Regular Member

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    no simply as in nato us is the largest contributer of both man&machine,and nato was created to defend east eu countries from russia,as russia gone nato is now morarless de facto org,except anti terror opp.and if we join nato we have to compromise our independent foreign pollicyand russia one of the majore contributor of our millitary hardware & knowhow will be suspissious on us and they may try to begin hobnobbing with pakis & chinese,and if in future conflict arrise not sure that nato will defend us from so far away millitarily.and the oil exporting countries may disturb our enerjy security by not selling us oil.so its a absurd idea.please throw away such idea and be pragmatic.
     
  5. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    In 10 to 15 years India will be militarily and economically stronger than NATO minus US. Our foreign policy and NATO's are not intermingled. So, there would be a lot of disputes.
     
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  6. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    Non alignment policy is very important for any developing country, at times of emergency wars the option to join any group of countries or support them is still available, so why to leave non-alignment ?
     
  7. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    The moot question is not whether India wants to join NATO, but whether NATO would want India to join them. On major issues we do not see eye to eye with NATO couintries, notably Iran, Syria and our infamous vote on Libya issue at the UNSC.
     
  8. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    Well Pakistan is a Major None NATO ally, which is almost as good as being an NATO ally and look what they got!

    No amount of sucking up to anyone is going to get our country developed. Its our hard work and political will that will get us to any state of economic success. If we get into any major agreement with NATO it will not help is in the long run and we will only inflame situation in this part of the world.
     
  9. Aruni

    Aruni Regular Member

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    First, let's forget that we ever had a coherent foreign policy. Our foreign policy has been ad hoc and overall has been a downright and miserable failure. China has trumped us in every single major strategic tussle, be in propping up Pakistan, or cosying up with Myanmar, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh or making Russia's entire arms industry dependent on sales to China. So we need to think out of the box. The same old same old will just not do.

    Second, I agree that NATO may not want India particularly because of its entanglements with Pakistan and China of which the present members would like to steer well clear. However, we should work out what we can offer them in terms of incentives to welcome India into the club. Would the US like some strategic naval bases in the Andamans? I think that may be a kick in China's tooth which the US want to deliver. Japan, for example, would be particularly keen to have another counterweight to China in Asia, and should welcome our inclusion.

    Third, please try and take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Iran, Libya, Syria, etc are non-issues as far as the bigger geopolitical stage is concerned. The big issues of our time are securing natural resources, having a military presence in strategic areas (such as shipping lanes) and having allies to fall back on should a territorial dispute risk spiralling out of control into war. On all these counts, NATO membership makes sense.

    Finally, for people who think in 10-15 years India will be more developed "economically and militarily" than every single NATO member bar the US, you are precisely the kind of new generation chest thumping myopic Indians who ignorance is going to cause our country damage. Let's be realistic. Britain, France, etc. are £30,000 per person economies, India is at about £800. Even China is nowhere close. Having powerful friends hurt no one. Wake up and smell the coffee!
     
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  10. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    NATO is currently involved in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. Will you send your soldiers to those places and risk their lives over something that is of little concern and that we need boots on the ground to secure the objectives? No. Joining NATO goes against our policy of military alignments. We will do our own things at our own time.

    Gadaffi is Chinese friendly. The first consignments of oil from Libya recently went to China supplied by the rebels. These guys are playing both sides. So, really where does NATO come into the picture? NATO will do jack-sh*t when it comes to protecting our natural resources. They are finding it difficult to bomb Libya alone without US help and they have voiced their concerns openly. The number of sorties over Libya by France and UK is nothing compared to what happened over Iraq by the Americans.

    You are mistaken if you think others will fight our wars for us. No matter how close we get to Europe, we will never be part of NATO for reasons as simple as we don't live in the Atlantic coast. You call me myopic but you are the kind of people that are found in plenty. People who know as much about foreign relations enough to fill an egg cup.

    Our military is more capital intensive than NATO countries you mentioned. For eg: The UK plans to buy 232 Typhoons and that has already been reduced to a significantly low number. By 2019 they will have 107 Typhoons and plans to buy 100 odd F-35s. That's a total of 200-250 aircraft 4.5th and 5th gen aircraft. Compare that to India which plans to operate 470 odd 4.5th gen aircraft and a further orders of 250+ 5th gen platforms within the same time period. Then our 10 year plans call for the second largest Naval buildup behind the US in Dollar figures. That means by 2020 we will be spending $50Billion on our Navy alone followed by $30Billion from China in the third place. If you know how economies work then our economy is currently the fourth largest in the world. In 10 to 15 years our economy will be as big or bigger than the EU.

    Sure our economy isn't $30000 per person. But it sure as hell can buy you a military that will surpass that of the EU in the next 10 to 15 years in capital expenditure alone. We aren't a $30000 economy but we are a Rs57000 economy and doubling every 7 years.

    If we have NATO "friends" they will be the first to run away when sh*t hits the fan.
     
  11. S.A.T.A

    S.A.T.A Senior Member Senior Member

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    The fundamental nature of geo-political alliances are that they continuously evolve,alliances get strengthened,upgraded/downgraded, entirely discarded or a new one forged depending on the geopolitical situation,the relative strengths of the international powers and that undefinable yet omnipresent element which underscores all international realignment-national interest.

    No doubt NATO is by far the most powerful military alliance on the planet today and its current engagements in Libya and Afghanistan are an excellent testimony of its military reach,no reason why India should not profitably engage such a formidable alliance.

    There is no gainsaying that India is averse to international alliances,earlier this aversion was underscored by its ideological leanings,these days its mostly because India is keenly aware of its growing stature on the international podium and does not want to engage an alliance where it might be at any disadvantage visa-viv the power equation.

    There are other significant challenges to India actively engaging NATO,primarily the Russian federation.Despite the end of the cold war,Russia continues to the primary focus of NATO alliance and there has been downgrading of Russia's status as NATO's principal adversary.India will have to weigh the chances of jeopardizing her multi-dimensional strategic relationship with Russia if it enters into any sort of strategic alliance with NATO.

    India's strategic priorities remain China and Pakistan,where NATO is not of much use,NATO's challenges remain Russia and the restive south Mediterranean,with the former we are hand tied and have no foot print in the latter.China might present an opportunity where our interests may converge,but that remains in the future.
     
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  12. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    India don't even need NATO if they would quit penny pinching and buy what they need.
     
  13. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    should india join Nato - No - bcos :-
    #1 india will be expected to contribute manpower and will be pressured to do so in an unequal way
    #2 india will lose it's independence in having great relations with the russians
    #3 india should have a good military manufacturing base before long
    #4 india will be pressured to get into regional issues outside it's geographical sphere which are really not of it's concern

    should india however be associated with Nato - that could be advantageous if india can propose some kind of association of a win-win nature in which india is not under pressure to get into unnecessary contribution but can share information and technology

    i believe australia and new zealand are associate members of some kind of nato ( no, im not referring to anzac or anzus ) so india might be able to propose somehting of that sort .
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2011
  14. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    i thought they haev shortlisted the rafael - or have they done a turnaround ?
     
  15. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Did they buy Rafale - or are they still waiting for China to attack? 70% of Indian armed forces are either in need of upgrade or completely new equipment. Until the contract is signed, it might as well not be. Even after contracts are signed, disagreements still arise delaying even further.
     
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  16. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Even if they welcomed us with open arms (which wont happen) i would like us to stay away.

    Any country in nato that i would label as a 'friend' ? Not one.
     
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  17. tony4562

    tony4562 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Your country is home to 40% of the world's absolute poor, with 43% of children malnutritioned, and roughly half of the general population lacking access to toilet facility, yet here you are boasting that your country is outspending all advanced nations besides the US in weapons. I think you really need to take a moment to think it over.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2011
  18. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    There are people in my country who cannot afford a decent meal. But there are people in my country who can afford a Ferrari. It's the people who can afford the Ferrari are the ones contributing to the uplifting of the lives of the poor as well as providing the monies for defence expenditure.

    India is a democracy and a transparent country. There is little which happens without having the media know about it. If you know about our poor using the media and you will definitely know about our military using the same media.

    UK has cut aid to India saying she is no longer a poor country and can afford to spend on luxuries like space technology while UK cannot.
     
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  19. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    While your condescending remarks are uncalled for, it is true India's procurement budget is nothing like USA. It is not even half of France.
     
  20. tony4562

    tony4562 Tihar Jail Banned

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    The kind of remarks as uttered by the prada guy are typical of indian nationalists, and they clearly show that these people are not really interested in the well-being of their majority impoverished country men, hence we can conclude that all their professed love for india is fake in its essence.
     
  21. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    And how many were impoverished when the british left and how many have been uplifted since ? you expect an upliftment overnight after being exploited for a couple of centuries ?
     
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