Should, and could India intervene in Iraq crisis?

TrueSpirit1

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Why does the west always have to clean the mess whenever shit happens in any part of the globe?
Who created ISIS ? Who was using them against Syrian regime ? Who created Mujahid Talibanis & likes of Osama ? Who created Saddam ? Who protects Saudi Mullahs ?

Those who specialize in creation of Frankenstein's have to pay for their sins, invariably.
 

TrueSpirit1

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Firstly India may not be able to get involved itself directly into the current iraq conflict because ISIS has been formed based on religious ideology, we are yet to reach a level of maturity where all our citizens will put their nationalism ahead of their religious identity. No politician in their right mind would take such a risk right now.

Secondly India seems to have some old diplomatic ties with saddam's baath party, ISIS was created with help from baath military help according to some reports. During the nurses & drivers rescue saga there were reports that these old ties were used to ensure release of hostage. It would not be ideal to burn those bridges, we never know when you will need those old relationships. i am not able to post weblinks but you can search for the role of "Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri" in the hostage resque.
Best post in the thread, so far...
 

SilentKiller

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well atleast we can try to reeducate that person, if it doesn't work send person on one way ticket.
such orthodox-ism has no place in india and same policy for all.
 

SADAKHUSH

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Only humanitarian help through UNO and no other type of involvement. Just stay out the conflict since it is their internal conflict.
 

desicanuk

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Amazing!Especially when you are living in the US.ISIS is an extremist Islamist organization akin to fascists of 1930s.All Islamists and other fascists like CPC are enemies of all mankind.
We have to join forces with the West,moderate Islamic nations and everybody else to rid us of this vermin.We will pay heavily if as you advocate we should bury our head in sand.The least we could do is to support the Kurds by providing them with all the help we can - weapons,intelligence,military advisers etc etc.This is a wake up call for all civilized nations.
 

desicanuk

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Its irrelevant who created the frankenstein.The point is that monster -sooner or later- is coming our way.Those who turn their back believing "its not my problem" will be the first casualty.
 

prohumanity

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I agree with you desicanuk to some extent...Yes..ISIS is a monster (created by West) If anyone in India supports ISIS, he/she should be dealt with strongest hand , imprisonment or death sentence for disturbing harmony of this great nation. I believe that nationloving ,patriots of BJP are smart and strong enough to nip in the bud such cancer as ISIS before it spreads. Do not underestimate the strenghth of 1.2 billion strong India. Indian military do not need to go to Iraq to clean the s*hit created by West.....they will have to clean this themselves. Let them take Paki military along with them as they have fed Paki military for 60 years.
 

Dhairya Yadav

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ISIS is killing 100s daily in mass executions. The world needs to act right away to clear the mess as fast as possible, because the later we react, the stronger they become . On the other note, Indian Govt is saying 100s of Indians are fighting on the behalf of ISIS . If this is true, then India might already have a mini ISIS functioning underground. Wake up IB !
 

Dhairya Yadav

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"NIA to file a chargesheet against ISIS for waging illegal war against India." An FIR against ISIS? How will this impact them!? :confused:
 

tramp

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Re: The IS (Islamic State) aka ISIS updates

India must join these govts. Indiia is more vulnerable than these Muslim nations to the IS because of the very nature of our democracy. Therefiore, we need an active campaign.

Arab governments agree to 'confront' IS jihadists - Hindustan Times

Arab states agreed Sunday to take the "necessary measures" and were prepared to cooperate internationally to confront Islamic State militants, Arab League chief Nabil al-Arabi said.

At the start of a foreign ministers' meeting in Cairo, Arabi had called for a political and military confrontation with the jihadists and other militants he said threatened the existence of Arab states.

He later stopped short of explicitly backing US air strikes targeting IS jihadists who control swathes of Iraq and Syria.

"The Arab foreign ministers have agreed to take the necessary measures to confront terrorist groups including" IS, Arabi said at a news conference.

"International cooperation is included; international cooperation on all fronts," he said.

The ministers agreed to "take all measures to counter terrorism: political, security and ideological," he added, without spelling out what these measures would be.

His remarks came as the United States expanded air strikes against the militants and sought wider regional backing for its campaign.

Arabi had earlier urged the foreign ministers to take "a clear decision for a comprehensive confrontation, militarily and politically".

Iraq had welcomed US President Barack Obama's plan for an international coalition against jihadists as a "strong message of support", after repeatedly calling for aid against the militants.

Obama outlined the plan at a NATO summit Friday for a broad coalition to defeat IS, which led an offensive that overran parts of Iraq in June and also holds significant territory in neighbouring Syria.

Obama's IS 'game plan'
He said Sunday he will make a speech on Wednesday to lay out his "game plan" to deal with and ultimately defeat IS, but warned he would not wage another ground war in Iraq. IS, originally an Al-Qaeda affiliate in Iraq that expanded in the Syrian conflict, claims its chief Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is the rightful leader, or Caliph, of all Muslims. The group's astonishing rise in Syria and Iraq caught the weak government in Baghdad, and much of the region, off guard. Arabi said IS posed a threat to the entire region.

"What is happening in Iraq is that the terrorist organisation not only threatens a state's authority, but threatens its very existence and the existence of other states," he said. Arab countries have participated in Western-led military campaigns in the past, including the first Gulf War and the aerial campaign against the late Libyan dictator Moamer Kadhafi. The United States on Sunday expanded its month-long air campaign against the militants in Iraq's Sunni Arab heartland, hitting IS fighters west of Baghdad as Iraq troops launched a ground assault.

Aside from fighting in Iraq, Arab states are concerned that IS is coordinating with domestic extremists and that militants who travelled to join the group may conduct attacks on their return home. In Egypt, several militants who have carried out attacks on security forces since the army overthrew Islamist president Mohamed Morsi in 2013 had travelled to fight in Syria. Egypt's main militant group, Ansar Beit al-Maqdis, has not publicly pledged its loyalty to IS, but has referred to the jihadists as "brothers".
 

kseeker

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Re: The IS (Islamic State) aka ISIS updates

India must join these govts. Indiia is more vulnerable than these Muslim nations to the IS because of the very nature of our democracy. Therefiore, we need an active campaign.
Good idea. However, do we have the resources?

If at all India would like to join, I doubt we would get any support from Arab nations, they will not tolerate Indian presence in middle east.

If it would be an UN led mission and if we get invite, perhaps then GoI will decide whether or not to participate in the operations.
@pmaitra, @SajeevJino, @Ashutosh Lokhande, @cobra commando, @nrupatunga, @Razor thoughts?
 
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SajeevJino

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Re: The IS (Islamic State) aka ISIS updates

Good idea. However, do we have the resources?

If at all India would like to join, I doubt we would get any support from Arab nations, they will not tolerate Indian presence in middle east.

If it would be an UN led mission and if we get invite, perhaps then GoI will decide whether or not to participate in the operations.
@pmaitra, @SajeevJino, @Ashutosh Lokhande, @cobra commando, @nrupatunga, @Razor thoughts?

we already have the thread to discuss about Indian Intervention in Iraqi Crisis

defenceforumindia.com/forum/defence...should-could-india-intervene-iraq-crisis.html

and my Answer is

.

To be rise as a Leader in the World We may Send some of our Battle Tanks and Our Fighters into Iraq.
we may get more war Trainings and We may become elite in CT ops too
 
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Razor

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Re: The IS (Islamic State) aka ISIS updates

Good idea. However, do we have the resources?

If at all India would like to join, I doubt we would get any support from Arab nations, they will not tolerate Indian presence in middle east.

If it would be an UN led mission and if we get invite, perhaps then GoI will decide whether or not to participate in the operations.
@pmaitra, @SajeevJino, @Ashutosh Lokhande, @cobra commando, @nrupatunga, @Razor thoughts?
The reason for the birth of ISIS, I think is the power vacuum created by the "democracy and freedom" gang aka NATO.
I feel that the sunni population of Iraq does not mind the IS. If the killings stop and a stable government is established the people will still continue with their lives be it the puppets installed by the US or IS gang. I feel that the IS has support among the local population.
Also the IS is well funded by Saudis and possibly CIA.

The reasons why India might want to go to Iraq to fight a war are: battle experience, "co-operation" with countries and spoils of war. But it is probably going to be a NATO led mission and therefore India will probably not get an invite.
But more important for India is internal security. The threat is from within (and you know what I mean), and intelligence networks are most important, esp. around areas where such ideologies are most likely to spread: economically poor Muslim areas. And at the first sign that a group like this starts operating in India, it should be put down with a merciless iron hand (so for eg if 10 terrorists are caught 8, 9 should be "encountered". As a general rule the more "encountered" the better.) The government must certainly monitor NGO financing (esp. the American ones) and also the money inflow into Madrassas from Saudi donors.
But for all this to work, media should be controlled like in the US and elsewhere.
 
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kseeker

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Re: The IS (Islamic State) aka ISIS updates

Also the IS is well funded by Saudis and possibly CIA.
Saudis, mostly yes because, they are behind spreading radical Islam across the world however, I doubt, CIA is funding IS at present, they might have done that in the recent past to counter Assad in Syria.
 

pmaitra

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Re: The IS (Islamic State) aka ISIS updates

The reason for the birth of ISIS, I think is the power vacuum created by the "democracy and freedom" gang aka NATO.
:rotflmao: :pound:
I feel that the sunni population of Iraq does not mind the IS. If the killings stop and a stable government is established the people will still continue with their lives be it the puppets installed by the US or IS gang. I feel that the IS has support among the local population.
The ISIS has a lot of support from the old Baathist people, who are Sunnis, and were once supported by the US when they were fighting against Shia Iran, and later the US switched sides in favour of Shia al-Maliki government, which took revenge on the Sunni Baathists, and one the other hand, the US supported the Sunni al-Qaida affiliated FSA terrorists against Shia and al-Waite al-Assad, who were armed, and they now merged with the Baathists, and began to spread into Iraq. If you study the progress of the ISIS, it started from the region of northern Syria straddling Turkey, a NATO ally, and the primary route for supplying weapons to FSA and other al-Qaida terrorists.
Also the IS is well funded by Saudis and possibly CIA.
India should stay out, IMHO. It was only due to old contacts with the Baathists that we could rescue the Indians stuck there. We do not need to take sides. No matter which side we take, (1) we will be hated by both, and (2) we will not get the spoils of war - the "democracy evangelists" will keep 'em all.
 

Razor

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Re: The IS (Islamic State) aka ISIS updates

Saudis, mostly yes because, they are behind spreading radical Islam across the world however, I doubt, CIA is funding IS at present, they might have done that in the recent past to counter Assad in Syria.
Yes, the CIA trained key members of the ISIS and in the process must have developed important contacts. IS receives assistance from KSA and Turkey through indirect means, both buddies of the US. And IS has already taken a large chunk of Syria, so is helping the CIA cause of terminating Assad and subsequent puppet installation.
 
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tramp

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Re: The IS (Islamic State) aka ISIS updates

Even if it is not overt, India could covertly take part in the operations including intelligence sharing... it would be particularly helpful when Pakistan falls to the extremists.... As far as IS is concerned, they are not going to vanish just like that because Nato drops a few bombs in Syria/Iraq border area. They are there for the long haul. When push comes to shove there, they will move to new havens including former Al Qaida strongholds... like Somalia and AfPak border. Pakistan is going to become more and more radicalised as the usual players of democracy fail and radical ISI elements tighten grip on the Deep State. Therefore, we will need to strengthen intelligence sharing with the West, howevver much the Leftists will hate it.

This threat is very real, considering the 'sympathy' that IS is generating across the world. And India's taking part in the operations or not will not have any impact on that slide. IS is far more sophisticated than Al Qaida and have the means to reach any corner of the world. Baathists have been inexorably sucked into the IS fold and they will have little sympathy for Indian concerns in future. Iran will be a far better regional ally for India.

:rotflmao: :pound:

The ISIS has a lot of support from the old Baathist people, who are Sunnis, and were once supported by the US when they were fighting against Shia Iran, and later the US switched sides in favour of Shia al-Maliki government, which took revenge on the Sunni Baathists, and one the other hand, the US supported the Sunni al-Qaida affiliated FSA terrorists against Shia and al-Waite al-Assad, who were armed, and they now merged with the Baathists, and began to spread into Iraq. If you study the progress of the ISIS, it started from the region of northern Syria straddling Turkey, a NATO ally, and the primary route for supplying weapons to FSA and other al-Qaida terrorists.

India should stay out, IMHO. It was only due to old contacts with the Baathists that we could rescue the Indians stuck there. We do not need to take sides. No matter which side we take, (1) we will be hated by both, and (2) we will not get the spoils of war - the "democracy evangelists" will keep 'em all.
 
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pmaitra

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Re: The IS (Islamic State) aka ISIS updates

Even if it is not overt, India could covertly take part in the operations including intelligence sharing... it would be particularly helpful when Pakistan falls to the extremists.... As far as IS is concerned, they are not going to vanish just like that because Nato drops a few bombs in Syria/Iraq border area. They are there for the long haul. When push comes to shove there, they will move to new havens including former Al Qaida strongholds... like Somalia and AfPak border. Pakistan is going to become more and more radicalised as the usual players of democracy fail and radical ISI elements tighten grip on the Deep State. Therefore, we will need to strengthen intelligence sharing with the West, howevver much the Leftists will hate it.

This threat is very real, considering the 'sympathy' that IS is generating across the world. And India's taking part in the operations or not will not have any impact on that slide. IS is far more sophisticated than Al Qaida and have the means to reach any corner of the world. Baathists have been inexorably sucked into the IS fold and they will have little sympathy for Indian concerns in future. Iran will be a far better regional ally for India.
If I had to choose, I would certainly choose Iran. The problem with that is, Iran is not in the good books of the west. Iran is good only as long as it is useful in countering the out-of-control monsters created by the west. Once the monster is brought under control (and note, the west will never completely destroy the monster - they will only keep it under control), the anti-Iran rhetoric will resume, and the monsters will seek to take revenge on India.

Coming to intelligence sharing, I agree. However, I am against taking part in operations. There is no reason for Indian soldiers to go there, and potentially get killed. Air strikes, yes, I am fine with it, but then, if our aircraft is downed, how are we going to rescue the pilot?

Therefore, I prefer staying out of this.
 

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