Shia - Sunni conflict

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by Screambowl, Jan 10, 2016.

  1. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    Hi guys,

    I am starting a new thread on Shia- Suni confrontation due to execution of a Shia clerk in Saudi Arab and not just that, but this thread will be used to define how Shias are different from Sunnis in ideology. Specially considering Iran ans South Asia.

    Please post all the related updates here.


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  3. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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  4. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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  5. bose

    bose Senior Member Senior Member

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    I not sure if you have noticed it already, the biggest difference I have observed is that in a Shia Mosque you will find big hanging pictures of Imams or Religious heads like Khomeni while in a Sunni Mosque that will be sacrilege ...
     
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  6. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Shia girls also don't visit their mosques.. but dargas some times.

    More over, shias are more extreme in nature but unlike wahabis. And Shias specifically from Iran are more close to their culture.

    I am not sure about what is the mentality of shias in India. They are though strict supporter of supreme leader and not arab.

    Plus Iran has banned the Umrah for it's citizens :O


    Recently owaisi spoke for the Unity of Muslims in India.. I am sure wahabis won't be happy with this. As they might see it as vote bank Policy.
     
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  7. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    Saudi Arabia may take more measures against Iran in execution row: foreign minister
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-iran-idUKKCN0UN0KP20160109


    Saudi Arabia may take further measures against Iran after cutting ties with its regional rival this week, the Saudi foreign minister said on Saturday, in a major row over the kingdom's execution of a Shi'ite Muslim cleric.

    Adel al-Jubeir's comments came in a press conference after an extraordinary meeting of the foreign ministers of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC), convened to discuss tensions with Iran after attacks on Saudi diplomatic missions there.

    "We are looking at additional measures to be taken if it (Iran) continues with its current policies," Jubeir said, without elaborating on what these measures could be.

    The crisis between conservative Sunni kingdom and Shi'ite power Iran, both major oil exporters, started when Saudi Arabia executed Shi'ite cleric Nimr al-Nimr on Jan. 2, triggering outrage among Shi'ites across the Middle East.

    In Iran, protesters stormed the Saudi embassy in Tehran, prompting Riyadh to sever relations. Tehran cut all commercial ties with Riyadh, and banned pilgrims from traveling to Mecca.

    "The escalation is coming from Iran, not from Saudi Arabia or the GCC .... We are evaluating Iran's moves and taking steps to counter them..things will be clearer in the near future," Jubeir said.

    After the meeting the GCC, which comprises Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates, condemned what they said was Iranian interference in the internal affairs of Saudi Arabia and the region.

    Jubeir also said his country had asked the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, of which Iran is a member, to convene an extraordinary meeting to discuss the aggression against its embassy.

    Iran has said the kingdom is to blame for the diplomatic crisis.

    In a letter to the U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon published by Iranian news agencies earlier on Saturday, Iran's foreign minister Mohammad Javad Zarif complained about Saudi Arabia's "provocations" towards Tehran.



    (Reporting By Maha El Dahan in Abu Dhabi and Mostafa Hashem in Cairo; Editing byRaissa Kasolowsky)



    PS: Looks like Iran has started it agenda to control and counter the propaganda of Saudi Arab. If Saudi remains busy with Iran, they will not be able to fund the extremist anywhere else. And Iranians are also Shia Muslims hence they know tactics better than arabis. So, if Iran retaliates, this may cause problem for comfortably living saudis. And the GCC.

    This will badly hit the OIL market of Saudi Arab!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
  8. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    http://indianexpress.com/article/in...sts-in-srinagar-lucknow-over-saudi-execution/

    Protests in Srinagar, Lucknow over Saudi execution
    Protests against execution also erupted in other parts of the valley, like central Kashmir’s Budgam district which has a sizeable Shia population.
    - See more at: http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ow-over-saudi-execution/#sthash.aU8oOJIp.dpuf


    http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/ja...-protest-saudi-cleric-s-execution/178990.html
    Tribune News Service


    Srinagar, January 3

    Protests broke out at several places in the Kashmir valley and Kargil district today as Shia Muslims demonstrated against the execution of a cleric in Saudi Arabia.


    The Superintendent of Police (SP), North City, Srinagar, was injured in a clash between Shia protesters and the police in the Rainawari locality of the city here.


    Shias held protests at several places in the region, including the city, today against the execution of cleric Nimr al-Nimr. The Shia cleric was executed in Saudi Arabia on Saturday, which triggered protests in the Shia-dominated pockets of the Kashmir valley.


    According to police sources, minor demonstrations against the execution took place at all places in the Kashmir valley which are dominated by Shia Muslims.


    The demonstration have stoked tension in the Kashmir valley and threatened to cause sectarian disturbances.


    Shia protesters clashed with the police at several places, including Rainawari and Dalgate in the city here. Protests also took place at Saida Kadal and Zadibal in the city here, Pattan, Magam and Narbal in north Kashmir and at a few places in Pulwama and Kulgam in south Kashmir.


    Demonstrations were held in Kargil district in the remote Ladakh region. Kargil district, which is populated by Shia Muslims, also observed a shutdown against the execution, while leading religious groups there called for three-day mourning.


    The demonstration in Kargil was led by Hanifa Jan, chief executive councillor of the Ladakh Autonomous Hill Development Council, Kargil.



    Jammu: The Shia Federation today organised a protest against the execution of a Shia religious leader by Saudi Arabia and alleged that Saudi’s are supporting terrorists groups across the world.


    Members of the Shia community paid homage to Nimr al-Nimr, who was executed by Saudi Arabia on alleged terror charges a few days ago.


    Speaking on the occasion, prominent cleric Maulana Mohammad Kousar Ali Jafri condemned the act of the Saudi Government and alleged that a reign of terror against Shias had been started in the kingdom. “We condemn the execution and demand from the Indian Government to lodge a protest,” said Jafri.


    Protesters alleged that Saudi Arabia was responsible for terror acts around the world and innocent people were being killed in Syria, Yemen, Pakistan and other parts of the world.


    There is an international conspiracy to defame Islam and Saudis are acting as stooges of the US. Muslims should remain united to defeat the agenda of some rulers who are creating division within the Ummah,” said Ashiq Hussain, president of the Shia Federation.


    Spokesperson for the Shia Federation Sayed Fida Hussain Rizvi also addressed the protesters and said the world should take notice of happenings in West Asia where innocent Muslims were being killed by terror groups sponsored by West.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
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  9. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    What i have observed from real life there is a huge animosity and distrust among Indian Shia and Sunnis,it's only because of Hindus shiyas are safe and secure in India.

    I once asked a Sunnis Carpenter about his views for Shiyas,he told me Shiyas are liars don't take their Id ki khir and Mithai as they use to spit in it.

    However this is not true,unlike Sunnis, Indian shiyas are urbanized and educated,Syed Ata hasnain commander of Indian army in Kashmir was shia so does Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi.

    Also in Lucknow,shiyas traditionally vote for BJP due to their animosity with Sunnis,where shia sunni revolt is frequent and on yearly basis.
     
  10. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    Between the Devil and the Deep Sea, Shias are the Sea.

    Shias are generally more humane of the two. If only they could come around to seeing that Hindus and they have a common enemy in India.. Probably too much to ask though..
     
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  11. FRYCRY

    FRYCRY Regular Member

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    is it true that owaisi is shia? I recently saw few of his patriotic speeches and the way he bashed pakistan when he was in pakistan
     
  12. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    This reminds me of something. Do you know how Putin has managed to utterly dominate and subdue Chechnya? Through Ramzan Kadyrov. This guy was a former Chechen terrorist who got back stabbed and is now a devout Putin follower. He holds Putin only next to his Allah. In return Putin has allowed him a complete autonomy in Islamic republic of Chechnya. Wonder if we can have a Kadyrov of our own..
     
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  13. Navneet Kundu

    Navneet Kundu Regular Member

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    Very true. Being a Shia is more than being just a believer of a particular religion/sect, it has geo-cultural connotations. Just like being a Jew means more than just being a follower of the Jewish faith but they define themselves as being 'children of Israel', just like Hindus do. So a Shia, anywhere in the world, traces his roots back to Iran, as his geo-cultural identity, regardless of what the legal nationality on his passport says, just like Hindus are all children of Hindustan regardless of where we live.

    The fun begins with Sunnis. Sunni Islam is really the basis for Arab imperialism, nothing else. It's basically just smoke and mirrors to keep the throne of Saud family alive and has disconnected itself form its actual ideological roots. The Saud family is like a parasite who has used Sunni Islam to have overbearing influence over Sunnis all over the world. But it doesn't consider them equals, because according to them only Arabs can be true muslims, non-Arab muslims are considered 'dhimmis' (a term for people who are enslaved after a successful conquest). IDK if many people in this forum know but there is a rule in Saudi that forbids muslims of the subcontinent from marrying anyone from Saudi Arabia for fear of polluting their pure breed. This is the reason why, when Indian muslims went to fight for ISIS, they were told that they were only good enough to clean toilets. The fact that even after so much humiliation, if muslims from the subcontinent look upto the throne with awe is amusing.

    Imagine what goes in the mind of an Indian Sunni muslim living or working in the USA? Is he an Indian? is he Arab? is he Hindu? is he American? Unlike Hindus, Shias or Jews, Sunnis are a confused lot, and this confusion manifests itself as violence, in a failing attempt to redeem their identity. Arabs consider non-Arab Sunnis as subhuman, in fact the muslims who go to Haj are called Hindus by the Saudis on all their official travel documents. Why? because they came from the Hind peninsula. The Arabs have already recognized that Indian muslims have Hindu nationality, it's just the Indian muslims who refuse to see the truth. We must pity them.

    As for Indian Shias, my interaction with them has been extremely pleasant. Unlike Sunnis, they have no illusions about their ancestor. They have no identity crisis, they follow the leader of Iran and they don't hide it. They are comfortable in their skin and don't feel the need to show their 'muslim-ness' by being hostile to Hindus. Also, a lot of Shias actually are of Iranian decent unlike the converted Sunnis who behave like slaves of Saudis even to this day.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
  14. Navneet Kundu

    Navneet Kundu Regular Member

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    We had a Kadyrov of our own, his name was Kuka Parray. He raised an armed pro-India militia in the Indian Kashmir region called the Ikhwan which terrorized the pro-Porki militias in the region and killed all infiltrators travelling to either side of the LOC. This was done by Ajit Doval during 90s.
     
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  15. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    wonderful post.

    one of the best, describing the whole situation related to Muslims around the world.

    The Sunnis have identity crisis. Yes, its true, where as Shias are more loyal to Iran and the supreme leader. I have heard , that unless until Supreme leader doesn't give orders not Shia outfit will retaliate to Sunnis.

    The power is more centralized when it's about Shias, where as Sunnis, they are loyal to the Saud family, and not all are loyal. Plus the more active sects like Wahab, Deoband, Salafi, Barelvi and their internal strife to own Islam.
     
  16. Navneet Kundu

    Navneet Kundu Regular Member

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    @Screambowl This just keeps getting better and better. It's not just Deobandis, Barelvis, Sufi, Salafis, but there is a global tussle going on in the pan-Islamic Sunni movement over who the true leader of the pan-Islamic movement is. One apart from the 5 different sects which emerged within the subcontinent, there is a 'Muslim Brotherhood' of Egypt which thinks that Egypt is the ideological center of Muslims. Saudis think that Saudi Arabia is the legitimate center of Islam, Iran thinks that it is the legit leader, Indonesia, as the largest muslim nation thinks that they are the leader of Islam, on top of that a nation of malnourished, polio infested people called Pakistan has entered the competition claiming that they will be the beacon of light for the entire muslim world. Not to forget the ISIS movement in Iraq and the Kurdistan movement, and the Balochistan movement. Then there's the central-asian muslims who are decendents of mongols, and there are Chinese muslims called Uighurs. The schisms within Islam are much more than just Shia-Sunni.

    Saudis are extremely wary of this development because the only USP Saudi has is because of its claims of being a leader of Islam. IF that title is lost to someone else, the Saud family will lose all legitimacy and Mecca and Medina will become just tourist spots instead of places of reverence.

    These facts are in themselves cracks in their pan-Islamic Ummah. We need to use this fact to engineer more cracks. For example all state sponsored madrassas must be mandated to teach in the state's vernacular language. So Tamil Nadu madrassas will only teach in Tamil. Karnataka madrassas will teach only in Kannada. This way, when an urdu/arabic speaking jihadi from outside comes and says 'come on brothers, lets do some jihad this weekend', the Tamil muslim says 'andu gundu andu gundu', the arab will say 'I don't understand wft are you saying? jihad cancel!' :rofl:

    The whole strength of muslim ummah lies in their claim that all muslims are brothers to each other in this pan-Islamic brotherhood. This wont be possible if they are splintered along various fault lines : ethnic, racial, linguistic, financial and so on. We must never forget that Indian muslims taking political advice from Ottoman empire is what resulted in the Khilafat movement (1920) which led to the partition of India. We can't allow such association to happen again. (We should help the Kurds splinter away from Turkey as a payback for what they did to India)

    There's also a group called Ikhwans, these are the soldiers who helped the family of Ibn Saud win the war to defeat the inhabitants of Arabia after the conquest of Hejaz in 1923. After the war was won, this Saud guy changed the name from Arabia to Saudi Arabia, later he grew distrustful of his own soldiers and disbanded them. They were the one who reemerged in 1979 and seized the grand mosque. These guys are an underground movement that emerges every alternate decade and threatens the Saudi family. They claim to be the rightful heir to the throne of Arabia and want to avenge the Saud family for disbanding them after the conquest was over. They are a greater threat to Saudis than Iran. I think we should invite them over dinner sometime.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
  17. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    Both Shias and Sunnis have worshipped Muhammad.
    The main cause for the tension between them is, sunnis said Muhammad's father-in-law is the next rightful caliph (Successor, as Muhammad was a Muslim ruler) but shias opposed and said only Muhammad's son-in-law is the rightful caliph.
    This is the main difference between both. I don't understand how this small indifference has made both of them sworn enemies. ISIS, a brainchild of sunni islam treats shias as non-believers and are killing them. What non-sense !
     
  18. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    Persians always opposed Arab imperialism. I think Shias also accuse Ummayads for changing the traditions of Islam to suit Arab culture.
     
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  19. FRYCRY

    FRYCRY Regular Member

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    If u will observe any shia sunni cyber fight u will see sunnis saying hat shias abuse sahabas (idk wtf they are) and one keeps on calling each other yazeedi , najdi, al e yahood. There are certain things we kaafirs dont know.
     
  20. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    As far as non-Muslim countries are concerned they must not interfere in the Muslim world affairs and have a clear offensive doctrine that if at all their lands or assets or citizens were ever attacked by a Muslim they all must unite and attack all Muslim countries. It must be followed very strictly.
    It would be sufficient and within 10 years the Muslim world will implode.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
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  21. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    Arab Muslims are the most filthy beings to have ever lived.

    They conquered Persia, enslaved its people and levied jizya (A tax levied by muslim nations on non-muslim citizens) on them. Arabs used this Jizyas to force convert Persians. True persians can't tolerate these atrocities, fled their country and embarked on the shores of Gujarat after which they are now being called as Parsis and they are one of the fastest disappearing race.

    I envy the Jews who stood and gave a mass kick on conquering Muslim groins.
     

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