Sen: Bangladesh, Nepal doing better than India on Human Development

Discussion in 'Economy & Infrastructure' started by Singh, Jan 11, 2012.

  1. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    [h=1]B'desh, Nepal Doing Better Than India On Human Devt: Amartya Sen[/h][TABLE="width: 100%"]
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    India's track record of dealing with the human development issues is worst than neighbours like Bangladesh, Nepal and Bhutan, Nobel laureate and noted economist Amartya Sen said today.


    "The tragedy is that not only China, but even Bangladesh is now doing better on almost every one of these social indicators than India is doing.... Every country Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are ahead already," Sen said, while addressing Delhi Economics Conclave organised by CII.


    He said that among the six South Asian countries, India has slipped to fifth position from second in 1990 on parameters such as education, life expectancy, immunisation, maternal mortality, etc.

    Only Pakistan is below India on human development index, he said, adding that "because...[it has] its own problems connected to terrorism".


    India has higher percentage of child under-nourishment than any other country in the world, even in Africa, he said.


    "We [India] need to maintain economic growth as growth generates public revenue and with public revenue we need to do things such as health care, immunisation, education...The government has to do a lot more," he added.


    Referring to his meeting with the Prime Minister, Sen said, "I spent an hour with Manmohan Singh yesterday but I did not have any illusion that if I could convince him that everything will go fine, not because he is not a good Prime Minister, as I think he is, because that's not the way Indian democracy works".


    Commenting on the challenges being faced by the government at present, he said: "In a democracy, you have to carry the party, the coalition and the political system, including the opposition with you."


    Sen also expressed his views in favour of balanced liberalisation and economic reforms.


    "I do not think that there is any conflict in liberalisation.... Each time you have to see if it is doing good for the people or not," Sen said.


    "What we need is economic reforms, but reforms are not just about doing enough to addressed issues which are of great importance to those relatively prosper...Reforms are right but the formula that works for the only 20 per cent people of the country is not right," he added.

    http://business-standard.com/india/...er-than-indiahuman-devt-amartya-sen/153124/on


     
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  3. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    obviously, most of Nepali are in India doing Labour or domestic servant jobs. their population is very less compare to India.

    Less population better HDI
     
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  4. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Bangladesh's population is huge relatively and Nepal is landlocked and was undergoing a civil war.
     
  5. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Then Amritya Sen sethiya gaya ha. ignore him.
     
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  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Amartya Sen ever since he has got the Nobel Prize has assumed for himself the mantle of some Oracle.

    Population, infrastructure has a role to play and finances are not flowing as the waters flow in various rivers of India.

    The statistics for anything issue is subjective and it all depends on the trueness of the inputs in the statistical models.

    If the infrastructure to get the inputs is poor, then the model can appear to be fantastic.

    What is the infrastructure for gathering the inputs for the statistical model in Bangladesh or Nepal? And how far is its reliability and trueness?

    When India struggles to get inputs, it would indeed be a surprise that Nepal and Bangladesh is perfect.

    It is time to tell Amratya Sen to enjoy a cooling off period and get off the self assumed high horse.
     
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  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    "Correlation does not imply causation" (related to "ignoring a common cause" and questionable cause) is a phrase used in science and statistics to emphasize that correlation between two variables does not automatically imply that one causes the other (though correlation is necessary for linear causation in the absence of any third and countervailing causative variable, and can indicate possible causes or areas for further investigation; in other words, correlation can be a hint).

    Statistics can never "prove" anything. All a statistical test can do is assign a probability to the data you have, indicating the likelihood (or probability) that these numbers come from random fluctuations in sampling. If this likelihood is low, a better decision might be to conclude that maybe these aren't random fluctuations that are being observed. Maybe there is a systematic, predictable, or understandable, relationship going on? In this case, we reject the initial randomness hypothesis in favour of one that says, "Yes we do have a real relationship here" and then go on to discuss or speculate about this relationship. How has this discovery of a real relationship, or this piece of new knowledge, going to help us understand behaviour? How have we solved some particular theoretical or practical problem out there in the general mass of humanity!


    Uncertainty is present whenever we deal with samples rather than populations in that we can never claim anything about populations with 100% certainty.
     
  8. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Sir,

    The issue of correlation and causation doesn't arise here. Dr. Sen is commenting on India's HDI ranking. This doesn't mean people are worse off or better off, but relatively India has scored lower in HDI parameters when compared to other countries ergo lower ranking.

    Though, sampling error could be present, and its parameters can beriticised, but it still is a valuable indicator of India's slow progress when it comes to Human Development.
     
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  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Singh,

    My ganduncle was Prof PC Mahalanobis, the father of Indian statistics!

    I lived on the campus of ISI (Indian Statistical Institute) which he made on his own property and then gave it away to the Govt.

    Not that it makes me an expert, but I have heard many a learned discussion.

    Statistics is a good tool, but is never perfect!

    Though said as a Joke - Statistics is like a bikini. It reveals everything, but not the real thing!

    And anyway I am not too fond of Amartya Sen. It is difficult to understand what he is saying, he either stutters or stammers or has a heavy tongue!
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2012
  10. Arunpillai

    Arunpillai Regular Member

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    Development indices in smaller homogenous communities tend to be better than those in huge bulky multicultural communites.. Yet that is no excuse for not improving our HDI.
     
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  11. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    irrelevant
    :lol: .
     
  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    This is an important statement.

    India should not be in competition or bother about what is happening around the world.

    She has to apply herself honestly to improve the lot of her people!

    Yes, honestly!
     
  13. balai_c

    balai_c Regular Member

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    India also has states like kerala whose HDI numbers rival many developed counties.It has bihar, orissa whose HDI numbers resemble war torn sub saharan africa
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    What makes you feel that Bihar and Odisha are like sub saharan Africa?
     
  15. parijataka

    parijataka Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yep, and thats why half of Nepal and BD like to cross over into Bharat with a supposedly lower HDI. However having said that, the condition of large sections of our population is pitiable and our leaders need to take decisions to improve agriculture and availability of food. Creating large SEZs by impounding farm land and impoverishing farmers is not going to make India a developed country. Narendra Modi in Gujarat has got agriculture growing in double digits along side industry - this despite Gujarat being an arid and water deficient state; very, very commendable and something that rest of India needs to emulate. Also, the land aquisition policy followed by Gujarat has industrialists paying market rates to the farmers and govt only acts as facilitator.
     
  16. balai_c

    balai_c Regular Member

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    Fertility rate,per capita income,literacy rate.
     
  17. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Amratya Sen is past his sell-by date. He needs to be ignored along with the likes of Jean Drez, Aruna Roy and other JNU socialists. They bring nothing but misery with their policies which are being pushed through extra constitutional authority NAC.
     
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  18. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

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    It is high time indian ploicy makers stop following policies of this jholawallas . Isnt upa is following the policy of this jholawalls for last 10 years and look what they had done to our economy.fsicial deficit of state plus center is around 9-10% . what more this jholawalla want now . should everybody starts leaving in hut/kaccha houses as we have poor so that economic partiy is automatically brought.

    hell what "Jean Drez" who is not even an india what he is doing here?
     
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  19. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    I think it's funny that some of you are criticizing and dismissing Amartya Sen for supposedly having irrelevant and out of touch views. Have any of you recently attended any of Sen's academic lectures? I happened to attended one last year, it was hosted by the economics dept of an ivy league school catering to an audience of distinguished professors, graduate and post graduate students.. ie about a critical an audience you can get. I assure you this man is still very much on top of his game and has a phenomenal understanding of not just South Asian developmental economics, but also specialized topics of women's studies, child labor issues, urban development, agro economics and a plethora of other concentrations.

    Just because his comments hurt national sentiments doesn't mean they are off base. The pathetic levels of human development in India should really come of no surprise to anyone. India is still very much a third world country with insurmountable problems with vast pockets of areas that can only be described as hell on earth.

    There's also this propensity in India to have instant emotional reactions to comments regarding comparative performances. This is counter productive. One of the reasons countries like Bangladesh and Nepal may have higher development indices is because they don't have a lop sided economic boom, as in they have nowhere to go but up. Having said that given India's recent progress it should be held to a higher standard.

    Either way Sen is probably right and it would bode well for the Indian establishment to try harder to improve the lives of the underserved.
     
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  20. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I have heard Jawahar Lal Nehru.

    He was a great speaker and had his facts pat.

    An excellent theoretician and it did appear he was the man of India's Destiny.

    And yet.......

    There is a gulf between theory and practice!

    Adolf Hitler was also a great orator and had galvanised the nation and Germans felt that he was practically the second coming of Christ.

    But then.......

    MMS is a great economist.

    But then........

    Amartya Sen does appear relevant in theory. Magnificent in fact. But his touch with reality and the grassroot?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2012
  21. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    Ray, although I admire you in Military matters, I would like to point out that you are neither an economist nor a "social scientist" to counter someone like Sen in his own domain.

    @ all the other naysayers - remember, this is not politics where most of us have almost as good an understanding of there one stands compared to a politician. Most of these are deeply technical macroeconomic matters, which most members here have not studied and have no f**king idea what they are talking about.

    The HDI was developed to look at the development of a society in terms of the benefits accruing to the people (aam Janta)

    Life Expectancy (Healthcare and living standards),
    Education (Mean years of Schooling and expected years of schooling)
    Income Index (similar to the Gini Index, but using broader terms and definitions)

    The HDI is neither perfect, nor is it a comprehensive account of a country. However, it does provide a quick and easy look at how a country is utilizing its resources and empowering its people.

    India has indeed stayed stuck in the HDI for several years now, which means that although our GDP has been improving, the wealth created is neither being shared across the country, nor being utilized very effectively. Why does that surpise you people? Knowing the level of corruption in our government, where politicians, bureaucrats /administrators and Police are are bought and sold daily, where most private companies are cheating on taxes, rich industrialists are deep in black money - what makes you think HDI will be better?

    Look around you - have slums gone down? has corruption decreased? Has healthcare for the aam Janta improved? Education for the poorer majority become better? Income inequality decreased or increased? What IS the reality? If you look at our cities, even our crown jewel Mumbai is full of slums and Delhi has more "VIPS" than cows on the street (which is saying something). Except for a few sectors in India and except for the 20-25% of the urban middle class, what great improvement has happened in the last 10 years?

    WHY are you defending the system? Why should we? Just because it is our country?
    If we do not acknowledge the problems, then how will we ever solve them?

    I do not believe in God(s) - mortal or immortal - so Sen is no god to me - I do not agree with all that he says, but he is a smart and knowledgeable guy and some of it is indeed true - better accept that and strive to improve than close our eyes and shit where we eat.
     
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