Saudi Arabia offers more crude supplies to India

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by Blackwater, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    NEW DELHI: Saudi Arabia, the world's top oil exporter, has offered additional crude supplies to India, a move that could help Indian refiners replace supplies from sanctions-hit Iran.

    Saudi Arabia is the biggest oil supplier to India, the world's fourth-biggest oil consumer, and is the only oil producer with significant spare capacity to replace any fall in supply from its regional rival Iran.

    "King Abdullah offered all assistance, including additional supply of crude oil, should India require the same. He expressed eagerness to strengthen relations with India," the Indian government said in a statement on Tuesday.

    India's defence minister A.K. Antony is visiting Riyadh to discuss defence cooperation with his Saudi counterpart.

    Iran's oil sales to India have been fraught with payment problems in the past 13 months after a clearing mechanism was scrapped, following which Indian refiners have sought alternative supplies.

    India is currently paying Iran for the oil through Turkey's Halkbank (HALKB.IS) but fears that route may also succumb to international pressure.

    Saudi said last month it can pump more oil at a moment's notice. Oil Minister Ali al-Naimi said Riyadh could increase production by about 2 million barrels per day (bpd) almost immediately.

    India has struck a defiant tone over new financial sanctions imposed by the United States and European Union to punish Iran for its nuclear programme, coming up with elaborate trade and barter arrangements to pay for oil supplies.

    But India's determination to pursue trade with Iran despite sanctions could be undermined as wary exporters back away from fresh deals following a bomb attack in New Delhi blamed on Tehran, a trade body chief said on Tuesday.

    India, Iran's second-biggest oil client after China, buys 12 percent of its oil needs from the Islamic nation, worth about $12 billion annually.

    Many refiners across Asia are asking for additional Saudi crude as they seek to reduce their dependence on Iran because of tighter sanctions.

    Indian refiners are seeking at least an extra 2.6 million barrels of Saudi crude on top of their contracted supplies for March, sources told Reuters last week.

    India's Hindustan Petroleum Corp (HPCL.NS) has reduced the size of annual trade deal with Iran to 60,000 barrels per day (bpd) in 2012/13 versus 70,000 bpd of this year and almost doubled imports from Saudi Arabia.

    Saudi Arabia offers more crude supplies to India - The Times of India
     
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  3. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Very bad, did Saudis asked their master,thakedar,rahnuma almi Islam Pakistan before this decision..:p:p
     
  4. debasree

    debasree Regular Member

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    where r the all weather islamic leader pakis said about this .saudis r u crajy u will be doomed ha ha ha
     
  5. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    If Saudis are ready to help than India should kick Iran ass,help Internationale forces to bang Iran when the regime is changed extend friendship to new regime..
     
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  6. ganesh177

    ganesh177 Regular Member

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    I dont think any bang on iran would have a regime change. So india should stay away from taking sides.
    There is no other nation which can give india a route to central asia.
     
  7. Sabir

    Sabir DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    Buy more oil from the Saudi, give them more money; and more donation will flow to Madrashas in Pakistan. Dont give to much importance to the Saudis. They will be a menace. Who will rule Iran is their internal matter. The West has nothing to do in it. More they will try to established pro-west regime, worse will be the situation. If West is so much interested in Democracy, people's rule etc why dont they give the first kick to Saudi King's a$$.
     
  8. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Who will rule is their internal affairs but if it makes nukes then it is an international issue.... do we really need another nuke state that too a pariah in our neighbourhood....????
     
  9. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I think the Saudis don't want to see India cosying up with Iran. They have realised (hopefully) that its flirtations with Pakistan over the years has really pushed India away from the Arab world. Recently KSA was talking to India about military exchanges and now this. I wonder if this is going to be a permanent arrangement or just for the time being. We need energy security and for a pretty long time.
     
  10. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    arabs deserve paki dogs and paki dogs they shall get.

    im waiting for the day when paki guard that they employ for security guns the arabs down for being in bed with usa or some other flimsy reason. that day i will give a feast :cool2:
     
  11. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Will they? I doubt it. They are two faced snakes. On one side they show that they are very pious and religious, but for making some cheap bucks, they will do anything. I am sure you saw this one: http://defenceforumindia.com/pakistan/31880-mass-producer-sex-toys-other-side-pakistan.html

    As long as KSA keeps feeding the dog, the tail shall wag, and given the economic state of Pakistan and given KSA flush with petro-dollars, what you said won't happen in a jiffy.
     
  12. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Yes...thats why im against India cosying up with these wahabi nutjobs. Every sane person and his dog will pick iran over saudi every day of the week throughout the year.
     
  13. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    ^^

    I see absolutely no reason why India should get so pally with KSA. Iran is much closer to us, culturally, linguistically and historically. Moreover, we have very good relations with smaller states like Qatar, UAE and Oman. KSA really needs to do a lot more to win our confidence.
     
  14. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    saudis are useless. they have zero importance to us. saudis giving up pakis would be like usa giving up on uk.
     
  15. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    KSA is flush with cash, and an ambition to propagate Wahhabism, and Pakistan is flush with plenty of poor retards willing to die for a cause, religious or monetary. These two make an explosive mix - rather harmful.
     
  16. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    While I don't think Iran should be more important than KSA or vice versa, the Saudis are really the 800 pound gorilla in the GCC region. Good ties with the smaller states rests more or less on good ties with the Saudis to a great extent.

    I think starting from not backing Pakistan on the Kargil war and categorically stating to Nawaz Sharif to back down to the LoC, there had been a steady improvement in Indo-Saudi ties. Under the NDA regime, these ties were built up with the main visit by Jaswant Singh where he added his personal desert connection and taste in horses.
    Under UPA and in the background of improving ties with the US, the Indo-Saudi ties have really taken off.

    The military to military ties that will be finalised by a reciprocal visit by the Saudi defence minister would really be taking this to its logical conclusion.

    Here is an interview with the Saudi ambassador to India last year that gives an overview of how far Indo-Saudi ties have come since the 1990s.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWSgP1VzJME

    And the main concern about Saudi backed extremism which is a backdrop of the anti-Soviet war in Afghanistan and then attempts to gain an anti-Iran foothold in Pakistan. Both are now diminishing returns and was a policy under the former King Fahd. This has been quite comprehensively revamped under King Abdullah who came to power in 2005 and the AQ bombings that followed back to to Saudi Arabia as part of their own blowback. And although it may take a decade almost to completely cleanse to Saudi society with remnants and sympathizers of militant groups, at least at the state level, they have been quite active and close collaborators against terrorist groups. And not only with the US but increasingly with India as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2012
  17. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Let's be pragmatic.

    India should buy oil from Saudi only if they sell it at a substantially lower price than what Iran is willing to under sanctions. Otherwise, why buy from them? A just penalty for their past (and perhaps continuing) flirtations with Pakistan.

    Oh, India should continue to buy oil from Iran.
     
  18. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Totally agree. We have had enough experience with the Wahabi loonies.
     
  19. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I don't think India gives a simian's posterior about KSA anymore. Moreover, regardless of what the KSA government says, there are rich individuals who are constantly funding Pakistani fundamentalist groups. Many have been consistently funding grants from pro-Independence Kashmiri groups. Despite India's long standing support for the Palestinian cause, KSA has always sided with Pakistan on various issues. This went on for decades. KSA needs to do more, a lot more and consistently for 10 years hence, for us to even consider giving them an ear.

    Let this be a clear message to them. Prove your sincerity. Prove yourselves worthy of our friendship.
     
  20. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    @pmaitra

    What I am explaining here is that since the 99 Kargil war, the Saudis have been consistency showing the same exact sincerity to improve Indo-Saudi relations that you are talking about. So its been 10+ years on that account alone. And India has herself been actively courting the Saudis both by the NDA and UPA regimes. Prior to that under King Faisal, Saudis again had very good ties with India and were among the countries that invited India to the founding summit of the OIC in 1967 in Rabat. It was only in the 70s and particularly in the 80s that the divide became more pronounced as we went towards the USSR in Afghanistan despite us not liking the invasion.

    Like I have explained earlier, Saudi-Pakistan relations were built during the cold war era where they were both on the same side along with the US. The actual funding of militants was part of the anti-Soviet and later anti-Iran agenda. Not anti-India. Its another matter if ISI had diverted some money to Kashmir groups but it would be negligible compared to the money that ISI pumps in directly to these groups and provides military training to the militants.

    The Saudi state in recent years has not only become neutral from a Pakistani allied position which in itself is a big achievement for India but it has also established robust CT mechanism, extradition treaties and intelligence sharing mechanisms. Post 26/11 attacks in Mumbai, the Saudi intelligence chiefs was one of the first to come to Delhi to share their intelligence and discuss the attacks. Saudi intelligence was crucial in thwarting an airline bomb plot against the US from Yemen. And this is the type of assistance we would like to see from the Saudis for any anti-India plot that it gains any intelligence about.

    The recent defense collaboration again indicates how Indo-Saudi ties are moving into a military arena. Pakistan obviously is not considered a reliable partner anymore because of the more militant minded officers in its rank who tend to be anti-Saudi. In one of the wikileak cables, the Saudi intelligence chief actually mentioned to the Americans that they had to think ten times before sharing any intel with the ISI because they were afraid that this gets leaked down to the actual Saudi militants they wanted to capture who are hiding in Pakistan.

    On individuals, even the anti-Saudi militants who happen to be Saudi nationals are something that the Saudi govt. has no control over. Afterall, GoS was trying to get OBL since the 1990s and was forcing the Taliban to hand them over which they refused to do.

    As part of my final year thesis for my degree in IR, I am working on GCC-India relations which is part of the GCC focus group at Sydney uni. Other students have explored GCC-China and GCC-Australia relations as well. And at least my preliminary research shows that Indo-Saudi relations are at a very strong footing including on the terrorism front. Dr. Joseph A. Kéchichia also visited our uni last year and discussed the close GCC-India relations and he did make a strong case of GCC-India coming closer in the coming years. Particularly in the backdrop of a possible closeness/alliance between Pakistan Iran and China. Here is a older lecture from him in Singapore uni. that I posted earlier.
    http://defenceforumindia.com/foreign-relations/28222-nascent-gcc-india-alliance.html

    And a quick point on the Wahabbi/Salafi part. This is just a school of thought and by itself doesn't mean you have terrorist groups or belong to a terrorist group. And even in SA, not all Saudis are Salafis. In 2011, you had the Imam of the grand mosque in Mecca come to India and give favorable speeches on India as a whole and chanted slogans like Hindustan Zindabad. Unlike the Iranian head of state, Ayatollah Khamenei, no Saudi cleric has openly asked for liberation of Kashmir. Even inside Indian on Kashmir, Ahle-Hadith(the subcontinent version of Salafi) clerics from mainland India had supported a fatwa that declared that there is no Jihad applicable in Kashmir. In fact, recently an Ahle-Hadith cleric (Maulana Showkat) in Kashmir was shot dead by the LeT because he opposed stone pelting and was seen as a moderate who wanted to negotiate with India.
    The point I am making is that lets focus on concrete examples of Saudi state sponsoring terrorism in India which I don't think has ever been even alleged in India. What in fact, I would say is that we should be confident that Indian Islam can well be a moderating influence in Saudi Arabia. Many Indian Islamic scholars are highly valued in Saudi Arabia and this is something I think that is not very well known among other Indians. In any case, I just want to make the case that I think terrorism should be the main focus, not the school of thought which is a theological aspect, no matter how regressive or distasteful I personally feel it is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
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