Saab offers #MakeinIndia plan for the Gripen

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by p2prada, Sep 30, 2014.

  1. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,233
    Likes Received:
    3,896
    Location:
    Holy Hell
    Saab offers #MakeinIndia plan for the Gripen (+ Video) | StratPost

    The Swedish defense and aviation company Saab has offered to make its Gripen fighter in India.

    Chairman of Saab India, Lars-Olof Lindgren told StratPost about his company’s intention to offer the aircraft for production in India.

    This comes at a time when Prime Minister Narendra Modi has begun a campaign to encourage manufacturing industry, particularly foreign companies, to ‘Make in India’.

    “We are prepared to set up a joint venture company in India and produce, by and for India, by Indian workforce. You see the mix of a large number of Indian well-educated highly-skilled engineers and Sweden’s high technology in the field of aerospace – it’s a perfect match,” said Lindgren, a former Swedish ambassador to India.

    Saab has been quietly working on a plan to build the Gripen in India and Lindgren said his company has already done a lot of the homework for it.

    We already have a Make in India plan for our aircraft. It is there already, because we have prepared ourselves, we have all the designs for a factory, the layout of the factory, how it would look like and how the flow of products would work and we have also prepared for sub-contractors being in the same area, so we have done a lot of work already to produce in India.

    We have been active on that for a couple of years, now, because we have seen all the time that we were fitted very well with the Indian Air Force need.

    And we have already prepared the ground very well. We have a blueprint of how the factory could look like, how the production system could look like in India – so we are well prepared for this.

    We have worked quite a lot on that – we have visited a number of chief ministers in different states to discuss this and from all places got very positive responses. We have talked to a number of companies about teaming up with us – got, so far, very encouraging results, so I’m not worried about these things. These will fall into place.


    Lindgren emphasized that Saab was proposing ‘real transfer of technology’ in its proposition to build the Gripen in India. “Often, it’s only sending a screwdriver and design and then nothing really happens. We have seen many examples of that. What we mean is transfer of technology is real transfer of technology – that we gradually introduce the technology in India so that the Indian workforce will be more and more acquainted with how to produce aircraft so that will be used in the development of the next generation aircraft. So we mean, actually, real transfer of technology, when we say it,” he said.

    Saab anticipates that the Indian Air Force (IAF) will have a requirement for at least 200 fighter aircraft, even after completion of all its acquisition plans, including the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Russian Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) and 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) for which the IAF has selected the French Rafale. Gripen was also in the MMRCA tender competition, besides Lockheed Martin’s F-16, Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet, Russia’s MiG-35 and the Eurofighter Typhoon.

    “We were working hard to be considered in the MMRCA. We regret that we were not selected, but we have full respect for the Indian decision and the Indian process and we are not pitching at all, against that. But we know that even with the MMRCA, the Indian Air Force needs a large number of aircraft. It’s difficult to say how many but around 200 plus aircraft are needed. And we feel that the Gripen E – as you said, the new generation Gripen – would be a perfect fit for the Indian Air Force,” said Lindgren, adding, “When it comes to performance, when it comes to availability, when it comes to affordability and also transfer of technology. So we feel that Gripen would be a perfect choice for India. I would say that replacing the MiG fleet that the Indian Air Force has now would take a plane like the Gripen – lighter, but still very performant aircraft. So as I said, fitting perfectly.”

    Lindgren also said that such a project could see the light of day in a matter of a few years.

    “We know that that demands of the Indian Air Force are immediate, more or less. And we would be able to set up a production that could start less than five years after decision. And since we are so well-prepared, as I mentioned, and we would also be helpful in using our own supplier base to try to convince them to come to India and set up production in India. So that would also be beneficial for the Indian defense industry in general,” said Lindgren.



    ----------------------------------------

    They want to eat into the LCA program. This obviously won't happen.

    IN was out of the picture before it even began. So, this is a last final desperate attempt by SAAB at selling the Gripen to the IAF.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  2.  
  3. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Messages:
    21,000
    Likes Received:
    11,839
    Location:
    Akhand Bharat
    Gripen is good alternative to LCA. as LCA is no where in sight after 30 odd yrs of mis development. gripen can fill the gap
     
    Sameet Pattnaik likes this.
  4. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2012
    Messages:
    1,054
    Likes Received:
    862
    Location:
    Ontario
    If the choice is Gripen and LCA, then I will go for LCA.

    Remember Gripen is incremental better than LCA but cost twice as much. What SAAB will transfer is screw driver technology. We have plenty of it over last thirty years.

    There is no rush for LCA. No war is about to break out in south Asia. That aspect has been outsourced to Middle East. Hence wait is worth it.

    Build your own LCA and be proud of it.

    Bad luck to Arms Merchants, you have tried for long time to shut down LCA, but lost many times.

    It is the learning process in LCA that is important. Next one will be built in half time.

    By the way, is F-35 rolling out of assembly line after twenty years of research and development.

    No, it is not.

    By the way US has been building fighter jets of supersonic variety for almost 50 years, still cannot finish F-35. Sometimes problems are beyond your control. Moreover US has not to worry about hateful bureaucracy, still a huge delay.
     
  5. PaliwalWarrior

    PaliwalWarrior Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2014
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    306
    Location:
    Shunyavkash
    There is nothing new in this offer it is just being hyped up

    again it is one more of Vayustrat farts & attempt to take india away from Tejas

    except that they are not addressing the current MMRCA but looking beyond MMRCA & Tejas

    what they are taking of is

    Manufacturing plant in india
    plane to be made in india
    Gradula & slow transfer of technology - technology of what ? building plane ?

    now just look at all the IAF procurement of AC over the past history begining with mig21

    Mig21
    few built in Russia and more than 500 built in india
    Now built in india means mfg in india, mfg plant in india (HAL), gradual & slow transfer of technology - building planes

    Jaguar
    some built in Uk
    rest built in india - Mfg in india, mfg plant in india,

    Mirage 2000
    i dont know much about it

    Su30MKI
    some built in Russia
    rest more than 250 to be built in india
    Mfg in india, mfg plant in india (HAL), ToT - gradual & Slow

    not only that even for the upgrades we are following the same pattern
    initial batch to be upgraded by OEM rest to be upgraded in india by HAL

    MMRCA
    18 to be built by OEM overseas
    rest to be made in India
    Mfg plant to be in india (HAL)
    slow & gradual ToT

    so in all the above cases the conditions of
    made in india
    mfg plant in india
    Slow and gradual ToT
    as being touted by SAAB is already followed

    also

    they are looking at 200+ ac market
    does anyone on this forum believe that any govt in india is going to give 200+ AC order to be directly built by OEM overseas?
    of course they are going to follow the above pattern

    so thinking logically

    SAAB is not offering something great, it has to do it in the same manner anyways

    yes it would have been different if they had offered to shift their whole R&D and worldwide mfg base to india

    if they had said that future AC of saab (military&civil) would be designed developed tested and mfg in india and supplied worldwide then it would have been a different case

    Also if they offer to jointly develop a new fighter for future such as AMCA along with indian co and indian people involved from the begining - spec finalisation and esigning and teach them those aspects then it is a different and worthwhile offer

    otherwise it is just sratpost vayu (fart)
     
    Kharavela and Kunal Biswas like this.
  6. Sylex21

    Sylex21 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    326
    Location:
    USA
    A bit confused about this offer. Is SAAB saying that it wants to build a factory in India to sell jets TO India only? In which case wouldn't EVERYONE be willing to do that / pretty much HAVE to do that anyways? That is the interpretation I take from the article. Now if SAAB wants to merge with an Indian company completely India should bend over backwards if they were willing to merge with the LCA project with a 49% stake + money or other stuff.

    Transfer of tech is really important here depending on how much of it. If it was total transfer of tech to the point that India could build entire jet engines etc.. (I think SAAB imports from USA anyways) or some other very critical tech, then India should totally buy to gain the tech.

    People always talk about indiginization but what is even more important is infrastructure. It is more important to have the ability to produce Jet Fighters completely in India, even if it is owned and licensed by Russia or someone else than it is to have an Indian company produce a jet but some of the critical parts have to be imported from other nations. The key is to be able to produce a ton of military hardware during a war, without needing to important almost anything regardless of who actually owns the company as long as it is all contained within India.
     
  7. anupamsurey

    anupamsurey Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2014
    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    396
    Location:
    karnataka
    thats it the article says in "India for India", i for one dont see Modi govt shelving LCA for SAAB gripen.
     
  8. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,233
    Likes Received:
    3,896
    Location:
    Holy Hell
    Your interpretation is correct. But IAF and MoD won't buy into this proposition. They already have their hands full with LCA, Rafale and FGFA.

    4th gen aircraft are on their last legs anyway. No need to invest so much money into an entirely new project when it is not needed. It will interfere with LCA too.

    Even if we consider Modi has decided to increase IAF's squadron strength from 42 to 50 or 60, it still wouldn't make sense to induct Gripen because we will have three production lines churning out LCA, Rafale and FGFA anyway. Not to mention the brand new AMCA production line.

    As for ToT, we are getting much more from Rafale, and even more from FGFA. We don't have to shackle ourselves to Gripen with an American engine.

    I doubt the navy will be interested in an aircraft that is not CATOBAR capable.

    They apparently wanted a 51% stake in the LCA. MoD refused for obvious reasons. I doubt MoD would have accepted even if SAAB agreed for 49%.
     
  9. PaliwalWarrior

    PaliwalWarrior Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2014
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    306
    Location:
    Shunyavkash
    Rafale is not happening

    so dont count in rafale manufacturing line just yet
     
  10. Sylex21

    Sylex21 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Messages:
    439
    Likes Received:
    326
    Location:
    USA
    What do you base that statement on? It would be hugely embarrassing for the government to backtrack now, we don't have a suitable filler, and it would be very damaging to India's reputation in the defense field for wasting so much of Dassalt's time and money.
     
  11. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,009
    Likes Received:
    2,251
    Really IAF needs more aircrafts?

    I mean, other than MRCA, Tejas, PAK-FA / FGFA and few upgrades of old aircrafts.
     
  12. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,009
    Likes Received:
    2,251
    1) I am talking in general though.

    Swedish companies are looking at India as a reliable, cost effective supplier of systems and sub systems for their products.

    For that matter few companies are already here in India and few more may join in future.

    Just to name one....Scania.

    2) For JAS 39 Gripen, formerly Volvo Aero, now GKN Aerospace, makes nearly 50% of Volvo RM12 engine in Sweden.
     
    Kunal Biswas likes this.
  13. Pulkit

    Pulkit Satyameva Jayate "Truth Alone Triumphs" Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2014
    Messages:
    1,342
    Likes Received:
    351
    Location:
    India
    I believe you are saying that we don't want new type of aircrafts ... when it comes to numbers yes we need more in todays scenario....

    The squad fleet of 42(Which is down to 32 or so) is not sufficient to counter balance Pakistan and China Together.....

    I also do not think other than Tejas PakFa AMCA(Future) we need any other aircraft.....
    SU MKI 270 is a great force in itself....
    TEjas MK1 and MK2 could form a light base that means atleast 150 in service....
    Perspective FGFA/T-50 will also be in good numbers 144....
    AMCA will come into equation after a decade or so when the upgraded aircrafts/oldies will start retiring....

    We need to induct Tejas MK1 then MK2 , FGFA parallaly to raise the squad size .....

    What do you think should we stick to 42 or increase it.....????

     
    Kunal Biswas likes this.
  14. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,479
    Likes Received:
    962
    Rafale is NOT happening. The primary reason is the tender process followed by last government is highly defective.

    There is no way BJP government will take the risk to pass this tender.

    Rafale may be a good plane but the procedures have not been followed.

    The mis-management of defence contracts has lowered the reputation of India already. This is the reason many vendors have lost interest.

    Gripen is unlikely also. The problem is the defective tender. Nothing can come out of this tender. (The Rafale deal has been studied by the new Govt. Although Govt is maintaining silence on this issue, it is understood that the tender is faulty and problematic.)

    I am afraid IAF is stuck with buying Tejas in large quantities. Better for IAF if common sense dawn early.
     
  15. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,479
    Likes Received:
    962
    The only option for IAF was a government-to-government deal with USA for F-16. However that has not materialized as USA has not made any offer to Mr Modi.

    Gripen, Rafale, Typhoon - all are in the same category as each has to come out of the tender process which is beset with problems.

    If IAF remains aloof from ground realities, then it will fight with current set of planes, whatever that means in terms of casualties in war.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014
  16. PaliwalWarrior

    PaliwalWarrior Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2014
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    306
    Location:
    Shunyavkash
    when will it be officially declared
     
  17. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,009
    Likes Received:
    2,251
    I think we must increase it.
     
  18. Sameet Pattnaik

    Sameet Pattnaik Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    Dhule
    the previous government was loosy as ever! nearly 80% of procurement where pending they only worried about party and courtesans !
     

Share This Page