Russian involvement in Syrian crisis

[Illusive]

Is Russia deploying this in Syria?

 

[amoy]

Rather than direct Russian air intervention what about escalating support for Iran and her proxies Hezbollah in turn against ISIS, FSA and probably Israel behind the scenes? Anyway the boots on the ground r necessary for fighting in the streets.

The Assad regime seems very impotent up to now. The seesaw battles dragging on and on only results in more bloodshed and refugees.

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~

 

[gadeshi]

Is Russia deploying this in Syria?

No, it makes no sense to do this.
Syria is having augmented with T-72B3, BMPT-72 and BTR-82A for ground forces ans different SAMs for air defence.

 

[SajeevJino]

No, it makes no sense to do this.
Syria is having augmented with T-72B3, BMPT-72 and BTR-82A for ground forces ans different SAMs for air defence.

There is some information that Many Russians recently deployed in Syria to help Assad to fight against ISIS

No idea are they just technical support staffs ..or combat troops

 

[gadeshi]

Well, special forces guys are always present in the hot places, it's natural, but valuable regional-strategic aircraft deployment is a bad idea when their temporary base is under a permanent threat.

 

[pmaitra]

I have some points in counter argument.

1. The situation in Afghanistan and Syria is completely different. USSR made a terrible mistake by staging coup by killing president Hafizullah Amin and taking complete control, which riled up almost all sections of Afghans, and that caused the demise. In Syria, Assad still has a huge support base in common Syrians and fear of ISIS is another thing working in favour of Assad. So, in this case the 'limited intervention' can stay limited.

2. During Kosovo war and in the Pristina incident, Russians and NATO were working toward the same goal, at least on the cover. Also, RuAF was not involved in the ops, neither did it has any friendly Govt. in the power which also has a sizable working airforce, completely unlike Syria. Further, I doubt if Russia wants to resupply its forces by air, USA would run interdiction. Also, Russia has a very friendly and resourceful Iran very close to Syria to resupply its troops, rather than bring the supply all the way from Russia.

3. The Georgia incident was in 2008, when Putin was still trying to cozy up with Western powers and getting generally disgruntled. At that time Russia still was not ready to antagonise west, and rather was hopeful of becoming a partner. So, it was no wonder Russia did not finish what it had started. Also, possible NATO intervention would have been likely if Russia suddenly was going to gobble up a whole nation, and got direct access to EU.

4. The Russian, particularly RuAF and its AA systems' presence, IMO is more to discourage the NATO and Israel from disrupting Assad's troops' operations than actually fighting in the civil war. I doubt either NATO or Israel, would try to antagonise Russia by shooting at a RuAF fighter and starting an international incident which they cannot defend. Russian presence on Syrian soil is totally legitimate and by invitation, when NATO and Israel are acting more like Bandits.

Firstly, I am not sure which side to take in this debate. Me posting an article does not necessarily mean my agreement with that article.

Now, coming to your posts, I will reproduce that below, in blue, and counter them in red, or agree with them in green, inline.

I have some points in counter argument.

1. The situation in Afghanistan and Syria is completely different. USSR made a terrible mistake by staging coup by killing president Hafizullah Amin and taking complete control, which riled up almost all sections of Afghans, and that caused the demise. [USSR did not antagonize all sections of Afghanistan. Many Afghans were pro-Soviet. It is difficult to assert that whether majority were, but it is likely that majority were pro-Soviet, due to the development work done by the Soviets there.] In Syria, Assad still has a huge support base in common Syrians and fear of ISIS is another thing working in favour of Assad. [Agree.] So, in this case the 'limited intervention' can stay limited. [Agree.]

2. During Kosovo war and in the Pristina incident, Russians and NATO were working toward the same goal, at least on the cover. Also, RuAF was not involved in the ops, neither did it has any friendly Govt. [Russia had a friendly government in Serbia.] in the power which also has a sizable working airforce, completely unlike Syria. Further, I doubt if Russia wants to resupply its forces by air, USA would run interdiction. [The US would not interdict VVS planes resupplying Russian forces.] Also, Russia has a very friendly and resourceful Iran very close to Syria to resupply its troops, rather than bring the supply all the way from Russia. [True.]

3. The Georgia incident was in 2008, when Putin was still trying to cozy up with Western powers and getting generally disgruntled. [True.] At that time Russia still was not ready to antagonise west, and rather was hopeful of becoming a partner. [Not entirely true. Russia was preparing for an eventuality. Russian forces had built a railway right up to the border with Abkhazia, which was used to supply Russian troops during the war.] So, it was no wonder Russia did not finish what it had started. [Russia's objective was to keep Georgia out of NATO, and it achieved that objective.] Also, possible NATO intervention would have been likely if Russia suddenly was going to gobble up a whole nation, and got direct access to EU. [Emphatically disagree. NATO would have done nothing against Russia even if Russia gobbled up all of Georgia.]

4. The Russian, particularly RuAF and its AA systems' presence, IMO is more to discourage the NATO and Israel from disrupting Assad's troops' operations than actually fighting in the civil war. [That seems to be the likely case, given I am not sure what it is.] I doubt either NATO or Israel, would try to antagonise Russia by shooting at a RuAF fighter and starting an international incident which they cannot defend. [Agree.] Russian presence on Syrian soil is totally legitimate and by invitation, when NATO and Israel are acting more like Bandits. [Agree.]​

 

[SajeevJino]

@pmaitra

http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-shoots-down-israeli-warplane-f-16-bomber-and-helicopters/5471009

Syria Shoots Down Israeli Warplane F-16 Bomber, Using Russian S-300 Air Defense System

That's the fake news sir ..IDF confirmed no Fighters jets loses in recent weeks

The last combat mission of IDF is over Gaza

 

[SajeevJino]

Just a few days back I read a thread, IIRC opened by @Yusuf, that Russia is undecided on arming Syria with S-300 missiles.

Well, there is, as usual, a fog of war.

For me, bottom line is, a defeat of ISIS.

ISIS don't have the operation air forces

 

[pmaitra]

ISIS don't have the operation air forces

ISIS has the Israeli Air Force to help them out.

Yesterday, Friday, August 21, 2015 in the early hours, Damascus time, an Israeli US made F-16 fighter-bomber, flew into Syrian airspace brazenly and fired at Brigade 68 and, then, turned and flew back toward Brigade 90 in Qunaytra in order to insure a safe landing in occupied Palestine if the aircraft was struck. It was struck. An SA-9 from the Iftiraas Air Defense Base and an SA-2 near the Khalkhaala AB were fired.

But, the technical wizardry was most on display when an S-300 (SA-10 “Grumble) super-air-defense missile was fired from the Republican Guard base near the Mazza AB at the foot of Qaasiyoon Mountain west of Damascus. This was done so that the F-16’s electronic countermeasures would first fix on the SA-2 and SA-9 while the S-300 plowed forward to exterminate the vermin inside the Israeli aircraft. The S-300 vaporized the Israeli bomber. No evidence was seen of the pilot ejecting. Instead, eyewitness accounts described a ball of fire over the Golan and the remains scattering into the air over the Huleh Valley in Palestine.

Also, the Israelis lost 2 helicopters while flying missions over the Golan Heights in an effort to bolster the sagging morale of the Takfiri rats of Nusra/Alqaeda and Al-Ittihaad Al-Islaami li-Ajnaad Al-Shaam. The 2 helicopters went down over the area near Qunaytra City and were reportedly shot down by shoulder fired, heat-seeking missiles deployed throughout the Syrian Army.

I am not posting the link to the source, because the link has already been posted in this thread.

That's the fake news sir ..IDF confirmed no Fighters jets loses in recent weeks

The last combat mission of IDF is over Gaza

Sir, IDF did not report does not mean it did not happen. I think "IDF confirmation" is fake.

Did IDF report this? CNN did: Footage shows Israeli soldier aggressively handling boy

 

[pmaitra]

Just to clarify the post above, whether Syria shot down an Israeli plane or not, it is true Israeli Air Force has been bombing the Syrian Army on occasions when ISIS was facing defeat in a battle.

 

[SajeevJino]

ISIS has the Israeli Air Force to help them out.

Oh yeah well done .. you're clearly pointed out with relevant Sources ..keep it up

I am not posting the link to the source, because the link has already been posted in this thread.

and I believe You saw the wreckage's of those downed F 16 and the lost helicopters in Golan Heights

Sir, IDF did not report does not mean it did not happen. I think "IDF confirmation" is fake

aww..can you please drop the sir ..!! Thanks

IDF declined to comment such matters or never open his mouth ...But never claims fake information

Did IDF report this? CNN did: Footage shows Israeli soldier aggressively handling boy

Yep ..and most other Israeli media too

and I'm aware of such incident ..

 

[SajeevJino]

Just to clarify the post above, whether Syria shot down an Israeli plane or not, it is true Israeli Air Force has been bombing the Syrian Army on occasions when ISIS was facing defeat in a battle.

Nothing like that ..whenever Syria tries to transport some lethal weapons to Hezbullah, Israel strike the convoys.

Please don't bring Israel in your Shia sunni Conflict

 

[SajeevJino]

Russian soldiers 'seen fighting with pro-Assad troops' against Syrian rebels


A video has emerged claiming to show Russian speakers and a Russian armoured vehicle fighting Syrian rebels alongside Mr Assad's troops in the Latakia mountains in Syria.

A BTR-82A armoured car - one of Russia's most advanced army vehicles which was only launched last year - was seen in the clip firing at rebel fighters.

Images of what appears to be Russian planes and drones flying over Idlib in north western Syria were also tweeted out by an account linked to Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Qaeda's branch in Syria.

And a Russian naval vessel was photographed heading through the Bosphorus straight stacked high with military equipment.

Russian military advisers have long thought to have been helping government forces in Syria, where it has a naval base, but this would be the first evidence of troops fighting on the front line.

Igor Sutyagin, a Russian military specialist at the UK’s Royal United Services Institute, said it was unclear whether the Russians were serving soldiers or contractors.

He said: “You can hear Russian, that is correct.”

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/602842/Russian-soldiers-fighting-pro-Assad-troops

 

[pmaitra]

Nothing like that ..whenever Syria tries to transport some lethal weapons to Hezbullah, Israel strike the convoys.

Please don't bring Israel in your Shia sunni Conflict

Hezbollah is fighting against the ISIS. Syria helps Hezbollah. Israel helps ISIS.

Syria transporting lethal weapons?

Weapons are lethal.

Israel has taken sides in this Shia-Sunni conflict. I am not dragging anyone.

and I believe You saw the wreckage's of those downed F 16 and the lost helicopters in Golan Heights

The F-16 was PULVERIZED by S-300. Got it?

It was not a Kiev regime's Sukhoi-25 firing 30 mm rounds at a large Boeing that you will have large pieces of debris with bullet holes. It was an S-300 pulverizing an F-16. You will have tiny pieces as debris.

aww..can you please drop the sir ..!! Thanks

No.

IDF declined to comment such matters or never open his mouth ...But never claims fake information

You first said IDF confirmed it did not lose any plane and now you are saying it kept its mouth shut? Make up your mind.

That's the fake news sir ..IDF confirmed no Fighters jets loses in recent weeks

The last combat mission of IDF is over Gaza

IDF said it did not lose any plane? Well, IDF probably lied.

Israel does not want to be seen as vulnerable. This is an old strategy so as to appear strong to its enemies. Israel even kept quite about its losses when Pakistani pilots shot down Israeli fighter jets without taking a single loss during Arab-Israeli War. Only later these secrets came out.

Yep ..and most other Israeli media too

and I'm aware of such incident ..

Ok, I don't follow Israeli news, because I am not interested in selective reporting.

 

[Rowdy]

Russian plane in Syria
Su-34 fighters spotted over Syria

White House monitoring reports Russian military is in Syria

Russians soldiers in Zabadani

@soldier of Putin @jouni @pmaitra The real war begins

 

[jackprince]

USSR did not antagonize all sections of Afghanistan. Many Afghans were pro-Soviet. It is difficult to assert that whether majority were, but it is likely that majority were pro-Soviet, due to the development work done by the Soviets there.

Well, undoubtedly a huge % of urban Afghans were in favour of soviet rule. However, the little I have read about the Afghan-Soviet war, I have found that the rural areas were against the soviets. It may be because soviet leadership did not understand or did not care how the Afghan tribal societies and power-structure worked in a decentralized way which is quite opposite of how USSR functioned. The nature of ruthlessness shown by Soviets were matched by Afghans, but the Soviet oppression actually fueled the Afghan nationalism more.

Russia had a friendly government in Serbia.

Not quite an effective friend at that time, as the whole war and Russian action was against the interest of Serbia. Russian intervention might have been intended to contain the damage to Serbia by NATO, however it actually ended up aiding NATO's goal. The Kosovo war actually caused demise of Yogoslavia formerly. The Serbian airforce was grounded due to NATO intervention, or risked thoroughly gutted.

Not entirely true. Russia was preparing for an eventuality. Russian forces had built a railway right up to the border with Abkhazia, which was used to supply Russian troops during the war.

Thanks for the info. I was not aware of that.

Russia's objective was to keep Georgia out of NATO, and it achieved that objective.

True.

Emphatically disagree. NATO would have done nothing against Russia even if Russia gobbled up all of Georgia.

I doubt it NATO would have stayed as by-stander if Russia really wanted to annex an entire nation which was not willing to join it. It simply could not have, as that would have proven its impotency, and rendered it useless. It had to intervene if the eventuality was there for losing Georgian sovereignty to Russia, after it was so emphatically condemned Russian aggression. Russia also could not just 'gobble up', as the international community would not have stood up for something so unprecedented like 'conquering a nation' in 21st century. Russian economy would have had suffered.

​

 

[jouni]

Russian plane in Syria
Su-34 fighters spotted over Syria
View attachment 5930

White House monitoring reports Russian military is in Syria
View attachment 5931
Russians soldiers in Zabadani

@soldier of Putin @jouni @pmaitra The real war begins

That was to be expected. Russian economy is going down so fast that Putin needs to escalate for foreign policy victories.

Ukraine has got its act together so road is blocked there. Syria is a smart choise because of ISIS. It gives many possible scenarios.

 

[amoy]

That was to be expected. Russian economy is going down so fast that Putin needs to escalate for foreign policy victories.

Ukraine has got its act together so road is blocked there. Syria is a smart choise because of ISIS. It gives many possible scenarios.

Doesn't the West have to rethink its Syria strategy, now that Syrian refugees or asylum seekers, among others are about to flood Europe? The West, along with Turkey and Gulf sheikhs is much to blame for support of Syrian rebels that's morphed into frankenstein ISIL. In addition to sectarian cleansing massive destruction of ancient articrafts and relics is ongoing.

Enough is enough. It would be great if Putin wins in Syria while technically Iranians +Hezbollah should be ideal foot soldiers.

~~Still waters run deep. ~~from my MiPad using tapatalk

 

[SajeevJino]

Hezbollah is fighting against the ISIS. Syria helps Hezbollah. Israel helps ISIS.

Hezbullah fighting against the ISIS..so what

Hezbullah fighting against the Israeli's, that's why Israel strikes back Hezbullah

Syria transporting lethal weapons?

You never heard, Syrian Surface to air missiles was destroyed by IDF when they were transported to Hezbullah

Weapons are lethal.

I'm taking about weapons who pose major threat to civilians outside from border

Israel has taken sides in this Shia-Sunni conflict. I am not dragging anyone.

Yep in Gaza, they Bombing Sunni Terrorists, and in Syria They bombing Shia terrorists

The F-16 was PULVERIZED by S-300. Got it?

Amen

It was not a Kiev regime's Sukhoi-25 firing 30 mm rounds at a large Boeing that you will have large pieces of debris with bullet holes. It was an S-300 pulverizing an F-16. You will have tiny pieces as debris.

well done, from Air to air missiles into 30mm cannon ..Good going keep it up

You first said IDF confirmed it did not lose any plane and now you are saying it kept its mouth shut? Make up your mind.

I'm again saying IDF never claim any fake identities, If they said No means no, if yes means Yes

If they have any problems they will not comment about it.

IDF said it did not lose any plane? Well, IDF probably lied.

Yep...and some third person's website is better source,

Israel does not want to be seen as vulnerable. This is an old strategy so as to appear strong to its enemies. Israel even kept quite about its losses when Pakistani pilots shot down Israeli fighter jets without taking a single loss during Arab-Israeli War. Only later these secrets came out.

you believe it or not, Israel is the most powerful nation in Middle east,

Ok, I don't follow Israeli news, because I am not interested in selective reporting.

I see

 

[SajeevJino]

Well, special forces guys are always present in the hot places, it's natural, but valuable regional-strategic aircraft deployment is a bad idea when their temporary base is under a permanent threat.

Just check out the recent conflict map,

The reported BTR 82 A and the Russian forces are just miles out from Latakia, where Russia has observation posts and military posts

If latakia fall, It should be a major setback to Russia and Syria