Russian Helicopters to be assembled in India

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by chex3009, May 25, 2011.

  1. chex3009

    chex3009 Regular Member

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    Russian Helicopters to be assembled in India

    The MiG setback has been a humbling experience for Russian defence contractors. Now, the Russian Helicopter company is sweetening the deal by offering local production in the race for three Indian tenders worth $4 bn.

    [​IMG]

    The Russian defence contractors have been trying to rid themselves of the arrogance that cost them major tenders for supplying MiG-35 fighters to India and T-90 tanks to Thailand.

    In a move unprecedented in the country’s history, the Russian Helicopters, JSC announced it was ready to establish manufacturing of military equipment in India with the right to re-export to third countries. The helicopter builders are thus trying to gain the upper hand in three tenders for supplying the Indian Air Force with light highlander choppers, cargo carriers, and assault helicopters worth more than $4 billion in total.

    “We may do the final assembly in India and enter other markets from the Indian market base,” Andrei Reus, CEO of United Industrial Corporation Oboronprom, said. The Russian Helicopters, JSC, an Oboronprom subsidiary, is responsible for the design and manufacturing of all helicopters in Russia.

    India’s market is of strategic importance for Russian Helicopters Andrei Reus added: "This is a strategic market for us and the most dense in terms of the number of tenders in which we compete”, he noted.

    Reus believes that the chances of the Russian company winning all those tenders are quite high, because their equipment meets the Indian party’s requirements. He also pointed out that India had the necessary infrastructure and trained personnel for operating Russian-made helicopters.

    Rosoboronexport, Oboronprom’s parent company, is participating in three tenders organised by India’s Ministry of Defence for supplying helicopters of various classes. The biggest one, for light helicopters to be used in high-altitude mountain areas, envisages supplying the Indian Air Force with 197 helicopters worth $2 bn. Kamov’s Ka-226Ts are competing there against the AS-550 from Eurocopter, as well as the A-109 and A-119 from Augusta Westland. In another tender, for 22 assault helicopters valued at $1.4 bn, the Russian-made Mi-28NE is bidding against the American AH-64D Apache Longbow Block III. Finally, a $700 mn contract for 15 heavy cargo helicopters is up in the air between the Mi-26T2 and the CH-47F Chinook from the US competing for it.

    The tenders were announced in 2008–2009 and the results are expected in 2011. With this sort of competition, it is only natural for the Russian company to want to better its chance by offering the customer joint production and sweetening the deal with the right to export the output to third countries.

    This is unprecedented for Russia. In Soviet history, there was only one instance when, in 1964, Poland received a licence for Mi-2 production. Russian defence industrialists believe the plans to establish production in India with the right to re-export should be a substantial argument in favour of the Russian machines participating in the tender.

    It was aircraft makers, namely RSK MiG, that suffered the latest major defeat on Russia’s biggest equipment export market. They presented their most advanced generation 4++ MiG-35 fighter jet for an Indian tender. Throughout the years of selection, Moscow exuded total confidence that the MiG-35 was a sure bet in the competition for the over $10 bn contract. They were so smug that the MiG-35 was the only competitor not even to attend the purchasing country’s main aviation show, Aero India-2011 in Bangalore. Indian government representatives officially stated that not only had they tried to discover, through their ambassador in Moscow, the reasons for the no-show, but had also attempted to persuade Russia to send the plane, but all in vain. Eventually, the MiG-35, which had the advantage of a lower price than its competitors, lost to the European-made Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale.

    At the same time, the Indian Armed Forces have become virtually the main export market for Russian military equipment, especially since the Chinese customers, having copied numerous models, have switched from purchasing Russian machines to producing their own. According to the Centre for Analysis of the World Arms Trade, the ability to market their equipment abroad gives Russian defence contractors an opportunity to manufacture the most advanced tanks, helicopters, and aircraft to meet their own army’s needs. For example, a contract with New Delhi for 126 MiGs would have permitted a significant reduction in the fighter’s domestic price thanks to economies of scale in production. Now the manufacturing of a relatively small number to meet the Russian Air Force’s needs has become economically unfeasible and those plans are likely to be scrapped.

    The Indian customers’ choices are also heavily influenced by a desire to diversify the sources of their weapons supplies; at present, India already receives a significant portion of its military equipment from Russia. In addition, the results of the three tenders may also be affected by a certain change in the Indian Armed Forces’ equipment priorities. In the past, New Delhi was pursuing a technologically “cheap” military. As a supplier, Moscow fit the bill ideally, as it always offered the simplest and cheapest weapons around. The Indian military has now realigned itself towards the most expensive and technologically advanced offerings. That said, the Moscow Centre for Strategic and Technology Analysis believes that it is impossible to predict exactly how the offer of local production of Russian Helicopters, JSC will affect the chances.

    In 2010, Russian Helicopters, JSC factories manufactured 214 helicopters; plans for 2011 include 267 machines and, in 2012, the number is expected to exceed 300 units.

    "Currently, Russian Helicopters has government orders for 461 machines. There are also, however, so-called quasi-hard contracts, i.e., ones that have not yet been signed for a complete armaments programme. Once all contracts are signed, the orders will top 1,500", the Oboronprom CEO said.

    He added that the potential order portfolio was already six times the 2010 level, when 214 helicopters were built.

    Dmitry Petrov, the CEO of the Russian Helicopters, JSC says that, in 2010, his company produced up to 10% of all helicopters manufactured worldwide. The same year, the holding’s companies brought Russia’s share up to 14% of the helicopter market in dollar terms, while Russian-made helicopters account for approximately 13% of the total global helicopter fleet, the CEO pointed out. He added that his holding was the number one supplier to the markets of Russia, the CIS, India, and China. On the Russian and CIS markets, domestically manufactured helicopters account for 87% of the fleet in dollar terms.

    Source : Russia and India Report
     
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  3. Indianrabbit

    Indianrabbit Regular Member

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    That will be just awesome, soon we will have a good military complex.
     
  4. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Failure to attend Aero-India and the subsequent selection of European fighters by India should send a clear message to both Russia and USA that they cannot take India for granted.
     
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  5. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    I dunno why we never pressed the Soviets to transfer us more technology. I recall that ISRO benefited immensely from Soviet insights in designing our launch vehicles. We could have tried to obtain technology for design and manufacture of aircrafts, engines and other defence systems.
     
  6. StealthSniper

    StealthSniper Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sure the Mig-35 is not the right fighter for India this time, but when push comes to shove, we do get a ton of help from Russia good or bad, and we would not be in a good position today without Russia.


    But I will say this, India is doing a great job of being on the fence for a lot of key issues, and even though Russia is a key friend and partner we have to become more independent (both military and politics) if any country is going to take us seriously. We have to step up to play in the big leagues now.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2011
  7. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Mig-23/27,T-72,BMP-2 and many more were produced in India under technology transfer the problem was back then India couldn't readily absorb all this tech and even those that were absorbed were eventually lost due the economic downturn in the 1990s.
     
  8. rudresh

    rudresh Regular Member

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    “We may do the final assembly in India and enter other markets from the Indian market base,” Andrei Reus, CEO of United Industrial Corporation Oboronprom, said. The Russian Helicopters, JSC, an Oboronprom subsidiary, is responsible for the design and manufacturing of all helicopters in Russia.

    that is not soo good by any means if they dont provide enough parts that is useless hal assembles the planes in india that does not mean we will be having spare issues. usa is has given the same option for s92 { or someother heli } the deal would have been sweet if some parts have been manufactured in india itself
     
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  9. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    The russian and indian babus know which many in open world does not and its something very very strange and unique, has to do with the mig35 for sure.
     
  10. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Good point. If I may add, the Steel Plants at Bhilai and Bokaro were setup with Soviet assistance. These plants were really high-tech in those times. Infortunately, the erstwhile USSR and the current Russian Federation are not same.
     
  11. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    It should be easy enough to knock Russia and Italy out of the LuH competition. We make their engines.
     
  12. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    Thats why like your post. You nailed it man.
    It will be indeed funny ot see how pro-russians will start bashing you for this.
     
  13. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Guys, a couple of things about Kamov-226.

    It does fly with a Russian engine. So, I don't see how anyone could knock Russia out. Russia concluded an agreement with Turbomeca (Snecma Group) for better and more powerful Arrius 2G2 engines for this fly way back in 2005. Even if there are difficulties, it won't take long for the Russians to come up with their own engines. I am sure the Russians have had enough time to be able to reverse-engineer the Arrius 2G2 that were supplied to NPO “Saturn” (Rybinsk) several years ago.

    Now for Italy. Italy could get engines from France and in the event there were any issues, they could always get it from the Russians and I am sure the latter would oblige because they'd rather sell only engines and not complete helicopters than nothing at all. Italy also has good relations with Russia and we have seen cooperation in aviation industry (Sukhoi Superjet).

    I don't know if there have been any recent developments though.
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Kamov is said to be a good helicopter.

    Russian helicopter are very sturdy and require less maintenance.
     
  15. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Russian choppers offer better price,reliability the only thing that can kick Russia out of the LUH competition is that Indian army has never operated the Kamov co-axial helicopter unlike Indian Navy.
     
  16. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    Could it be inferior technology and realibility compaired to Americans and Eurpeans.
     
  17. Parthy

    Parthy Air Warrior Senior Member

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    Russia has got expertise in making better airframes for both static and rotary wings... The only issue will be their backlog in advanced avionics tech that is where they're getting the hit.. Also, it takes less maintenance cost as said by Ray ^^. IMO, Russians are good to go and if this proposal works fine, we will be able to collaborate HAL for avionics and can make better Choppers...
     
  18. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    We are doing fine with outdated Chetak to supply Siachen post so the Ka-226 would in every aspect be an advantage to our present situation and IIRC the Ka-226 performance exceed the Eurocopter AS-350.
     
  19. rudresh

    rudresh Regular Member

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    Russia has got expertise in making better airframes for both static and rotary wings... The only issue will be their
    backlog in advanced avionics tech that is where they're getting the hit.. Also, it takes less maintenance cost as said by Ray ^^. IMO,
    Russians are good to go and if this proposal works fine, we will be able to collaborate HAL for avionics and can make better Choppers.

    that is where russians come with contractual obligations they dont want anything indian on their helicopter unless hammered on their head as mandatory hence we end up with a compromised product ....and will struggle like cought between stones we could have reduced mkis weight by atlest 5 tonnes by the crafty russians will never allow us or will do by themselves and ask a very high price ......not initially but slowly this is where russian equipment fails ..........india is highly diverse compared to russia and require a lot of changes and hence every ones calculations are going to take a blow in india + babu monkeys+ impatient customer + L1 clause make life worse.

    we need some mandatory changes to be specified to manufacturer if we opt for their product like different engines and inhouse sourced composites, mission computers,allow to attach some foreign developments ..........which will be unique and fit indian requiremints.

    when russians want all the money for themselves .......they lose the contract.
    inflexible things break while flexible things accomodate.....this is what should be known to russians.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  20. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Well, Indian Navy has been using Kamov coaxial NOTAR helos for a long time now. It won't be difficult to arrange for inter-services training for Indian Army or Aviation Wing thereof. It is, IMHO, a minor obstacle.

    [​IMG]

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  21. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    ^i mentioned that Indian Navy has been using the Kamov choppers
     

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