Russian Army to Switch to Wheeled Armored Vehicles

[Armand2REP]

2S25 use 125mm smoothbore gun. AMX-10RCR use 105mm rifled gun. What vehicle have more firepower? Not to mention that 2S25 can fire GLATGM's with a effective range of 5,000m. And with mechanized loading system, rate of fire is much higher in Russian vehicle.

Neither of these vehicles can survive a hit of APDS or APFSDS round even from many types of small/medium calliber automatic cannons, but Russians at least have descent ERA 4S24 that can be used on light weight platforms. Protection of French vehicle in such situation is useless against all anti tank threats.

Also 2S25 Sprut-SD have more modern fire control system.

AMX-10RCR was designed to outshoot T-72s and fend off ATGMs. With laser/IR warning receivers and automatic smoke screens renders those useless in the opening minutes of engagement. It comes down to better shooting of the gun. Since a 105mm rifled gun does not have to worry about velocity on a KE round against thin skinned tank gun it can destroy it at 4km. Who has better FCS and thermals, Sagem/Thales combo or Russia's KBP/UMOZ lol combo? Recoil of 125mm tank gun is far worse than 105mm and 10RCR just got new suspension to deal with it. Ceramic add-on amour brings it to STANAG level 5, Sprut SD only good to haha level 3 and no ERA.

Sprut has a modest digital fire control, doesn't make it more modern than Sagem/Thales fire/observation combo. Not to mention 10RCR is connected to C4I network while Sprut lays blind.

So maybe You will educate Yourself, stop being arrogant and ignorant, stereotypical Frenchmen, and You will stop spreading BS everywhere?

Maybe you will educate yourself that a bigger gun doesn't mean a more accurate one. It isn't BS that French optics and electronics are superior to Russian... you should have learned that by now.

 

[Armand2REP]

Not to mention Sprut SD never got out of prototype stage...

Among other cancelled development programs are the 152 mm Koalitziya-SV self-propelled double-barrel artillery system, BMD-4 airborne combat vehicle, 125 mm Sprut-SD self-propelled anti-tank gun and BMPT tank support combat vehicle. All these programs were in the phase of prototype testing. Popovkin said these weapons hadn't been included in the defense procurement program, but the government will reimburse the designers for their development expenses.

Russia Cancels Arms Programs

 

[Armand2REP]

There is also another problem. Not even anti tank weapons like RPG's and ATGM's are growing in capabilities. But also small to medium calliber automatic cannons are.

Look at the tendency, 40mm CTA automatic cannons in NATO, Russians want to go even further with 47mm CTA and 57mm auto cannons.

That is problem with EBRC, it cannot decide if they want 40CTA or bigger 120mm tank gun. Armour and ERA gets thicker so bigger guns needed, but then MMP top attack missile destroys it but then only few shots. 40CTA would be better on VBCI and 120mm on EBRC.

Tracked vehicle can be up-armored and still preserve it's mobility. Now show me a 40 or 50 tons heavy wheeled AFV that will preserve it's mobility, especially in hard terrain.

The point is making a vehicle that doesn't weigh 40-50t. It is absurd notion to have 50t IFV bigger than Soviet tanks. GCV keeps getting cancelled for being too heavy.

And knowing that IFV needs alot of space for it's dismounts, this means that after up-armoring it's weight will increase.

But this up-armoring might be nececity knowing growth in potential of automatic cannons, main armament of most IFV's and even some APC's.

Up-armour is not the answer but better active protection systems that can deal with the range from RPG, ATGM to KE rounds. French vehicles come with GALIX APS and Sagem IR blinders that break all Russian ATGM locks. RPG rails and modular armour protect it from shoulder launched threats. AMX-10RCR has muzzle reference system, improved suspension and better thermals that outshoot T-72 or less tanks. More is needed to deal with T-80/90 series like 120mm gun.

And there is also one more aspect, currently wheeled vehicles have better mine/IED protection, simply because their hull is further away from the ground but... tracked vehicles also can have such capability by use of hydrogas suspension system with variable controlled height level, not only this, but it will also give option to install addon armor for belly, without decreasing mobility.

Keep talking but adding weight is not the answer.

 

[Akim]

Not to mention Sprut SD never got out of prototype stage...

Sprut-SD and in soviet time did not want to accept on an armament. It an lignt tank is not needed. For artillery support paratroopers have "Nona", for a fight against tanks sufficiently ATGM. And such machine only a place occupies in a cargo bay. PT- 76 modernize marines to the level of "B". Here he would not prevent them. Although Sprut-SD good machine. Simply organizationally she was not written into the "battle state".
And ннасчет all other. While will manage an army civil - there will be a whorehouse in her.

 

[Armand2REP]

Sprut-SD and in soviet time did not want to accept on an armament. It an lignt tank is not needed. For artillery support paratroopers have "Nona", for a fight against tanks sufficiently ATGM. And such machine only a place occupies in a cargo bay. PT- 76 modernize marines to the level of "B". Here he would not prevent them. Although Sprut-SD good machine. Simply organizationally she was not written into the "battle state".
And ннасчет all other. While will manage an army civil - there will be a whorehouse in her.

Nona is rifled SP mortar with no ATGM not sufficient to deal with MBTs. They replaced tracks with wheels on Nona-SVK to reduce weight and logistics. BMD-4M was supposed to be ATGM platform but was also cancelled. A few BMD-3Ms were refitted to carry ATGMs and serve at Pskov. VDV relies on BTR-RD Robot for anti-tank role. Sprut SD was a nice concept, but obsolete as was the rest of the cancelled projects. Russia looks for modern solutions.

 

[Damian]

Talking with people from France is allways... amusing, with their lack of knowledge about the world beyond France.

AMX-10RCR was designed to outshoot T-72s and fend off ATGMs.

Only idiot can belive in this.

With laser/IR warning receivers and automatic smoke screens renders those useless in the opening minutes of engagement.

If You belive that world is like a computer game where one solution is allways perfectly working, they You are very wrong... You are serving in French Armed Forces? This is a normal procedure for soldiers to delude theirselfs to be more curagous?

It comes down to better shooting of the gun. Since a 105mm rifled gun does not have to worry about velocity on a KE round against thin skinned tank gun it can destroy it at 4km. Who has better FCS and thermals, Sagem/Thales combo or Russia's KBP/UMOZ lol combo? Recoil of 125mm tank gun is far worse than 105mm and 10RCR just got new suspension to deal with it. Ceramic add-on amour brings it to STANAG level 5, Sprut SD only good to haha level 3 and no ERA.

Sprut has a modest digital fire control, doesn't make it more modern than Sagem/Thales fire/observation combo. Not to mention 10RCR is connected to C4I network while Sprut lays blind.

It is interesting that a person that is barely capable to even think like adult, make such bald statements only based on his idiotic pseudo patriotism. But please, make me laugh even more.

It will be a great show of Your poor knowledge, just like the last time You claimed that AMX-30 was first tank armed with smoothbore gun and first tank equipped with thermal sight, which was obvious BS.

Maybe you will educate yourself that a bigger gun doesn't mean a more accurate one. It isn't BS that French optics and electronics are superior to Russian... you should have learned that by now.

What makes You think that 2A75 is not accurate? Because it is Russian? What makes You think that Russian electronics are inferior to French? I still remember a situation when during trails in UAE Leclerc maintnance crew had problems with it's electronics, while Russians showing BMP-3 had no problems.

It is even more amusing that French are so certain of their superiority over others, while in reality this superiority is non existing myth, created to heal French inferiority complex.

Not to mention Sprut SD never got out of prototype stage...

You think that all of ~24 2S25 Sprut-SD used by Russian Armed Forces are prototypes?

Don't be silly, and learn Russian, maybe they You will be able to understand more.

That is problem with EBRC, it cannot decide if they want 40CTA or bigger 120mm tank gun. Armour and ERA gets thicker so bigger guns needed, but then MMP top attack missile destroys it but then only few shots. 40CTA would be better on VBCI and 120mm on EBRC.

Can someone translate this babble to some human language? Thanks in advance.

The point is making a vehicle that doesn't weigh 40-50t. It is absurd notion to have 50t IFV bigger than Soviet tanks. GCV keeps getting cancelled for being too heavy.

Listen I completely understand that for French people, everyone should do everything like French do but really... who cares about what are yours solutions?

Americans want heavy armored, highly survivable IFV, then they will get it. Israelis have even heavier APC, and they are completely happy with it. Americans besides their own designs tests also foreing ones, from lighter CV90 to heavier Namer. But they definetly not wan't something that is lightweight coffin. They have too many real experiences to choose French way.

Up-armour is not the answer but better active protection systems that can deal with the range from RPG, ATGM to KE rounds.

I think that You completely not understand the principles of active protection systems working mechanisms. These are not some wonderfull solutions that can replace armor. Active Protection System have limited number of countermessures, on the battlefield where enemy fire saturation is high, countermessures might end, leaving vehicle without any significant protection.

But how such simple thing can be understood by a child that is only capable to comprehend world on computer games level...

French vehicles come with GALIX APS and Sagem IR blinders that break all Russian ATGM locks. RPG rails and modular armour protect it from shoulder launched threats. AMX-10RCR has muzzle reference system, improved suspension and better thermals that outshoot T-72 or less tanks. More is needed to deal with T-80/90 series like 120mm gun.

You think that this will impress me? Go masturbate elswhere kid.

Keep talking but adding weight is not the answer.

Knock knock knock... anybody is there in Your head? Start to use brain and read with understanding... cephalopod...

Nona is rifled SP mortar with no ATGM not sufficient to deal with MBTs. They replaced tracks with wheels on Nona-SVK to reduce weight and logistics. BMD-4M was supposed to be ATGM platform but was also cancelled. A few BMD-3Ms were refitted to carry ATGMs and serve at Pskov. VDV relies on BTR-RD Robot for anti-tank role. Sprut SD was a nice concept, but obsolete as was the rest of the cancelled projects. Russia looks for modern solutions.

So what is a modern solution? French concept is a modern solution? There are other countries with other modern solutions that don't give a shit about what France do right now.

 

[Akim]

Nona is rifled SP mortar with no ATGM not sufficient to deal with MBTs. They replaced tracks with wheels on Nona-SVK to reduce weight and logistics. BMD-4M was supposed to be ATGM platform but was also cancelled. A few BMD-3Ms were refitted to carry ATGMs and serve at Pskov. VDV relies on BTR-RD Robot for anti-tank role. Sprut SD was a nice concept, but obsolete as was the rest of the cancelled projects. Russia looks for modern solutions.

Nona can shoot high-fidelity 120-mm mines "Dare-devil"(Смельчак) , but not herein essence. Her nobody will abolish. Only this type of machines, with a hydropneumatics as at car Citroën DS. It is possible to throw down with a parachute, and she at once enters into a fight. Nona SVK was created for airmobiles divisions, but her process is also anniented. There is the more best 120-мм cannon-mortar 2А80, but in Russia of now there is not the wheeled platform on him.

 

[Armand2REP]

......................................

Miles of personal attacks don't deserve a response... so your argument is too weak for an intelligent answer, got it!

So what is a modern solution? French concept is a modern solution? There are other countries with other modern solutions that don't give a shit about what France do right now.

Apparently it is the solution for Russia since they are modeling their Army on our Rapid Reaction concept. They give a shit since they beg us for technology.

 

[Armand2REP]

Nona can shoot high-fidelity 120-mm mines "Dare-devil"(Смельчак) , but not herein essence. Her nobody will abolish. Only this type of machines, with a hydropneumatics as at car Citroën DS. It is possible to throw down with a parachute, and she at once enters into a fight. Nona SVK was created for airmobiles divisions, but her process is also anniented. There is the more best 120-мм cannon-mortar 2А80, but in Russia of now there is not the wheeled platform on him.

Nona HEAT shell is only good for 250 RHa against tanks and needs top attack to knock it out. Not likely against maneuvering targets. Mine throwers are not a real threat. SVK is a nice piece of kit but it is not meant to engage MBTs and needs to be behind front line. It serves same purpose as 120mm towed mortars but much more ingenious. I can't wait to get Dragonfire mounted in VBMR.

 

[Damian]

Miles of personal attacks don't deserve a response... so your argument is too weak for an intelligent answer, got it!

How You think any intelligent form of life could response differently for tons of crap and France strong!1111!!!! BS.

You are bashing every solution different from French everywhere.

Apparently it is the solution for Russia since they are modeling their Army on our Rapid Reaction concept. They give a shit since they beg us for technology.

How do You know how they will model their Army? As far as I can see, they want far superior and balanced force both with lighter units builded around wheeled platforms and heavier units builded around tracked platforms.

May I remind You that actually they have right now units with tanks supported by wheeled BTR's and infantry, as well as they have units with tanks and tracked BMP's. They had this in cold war as well. So actually they do not copy anything, but just modernize what they have.

Only because You do not know history, it is not an excuse to make up theories based on Your biased view on reality.