Russian Army to Switch to Wheeled Armored Vehicles

Discussion in 'Land Forces' started by asianobserve, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    By RIA Novosti on Wednesday, July 18th, 2012

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    The Russian Defense Ministry has decided to equip the Ground Forces mostly with wheeled rather than tracked armored vehicles, GF commander Col. Gen. Vladimir Chirkin said on Monday.

    “The Defense Ministry has decided to replace the majority of tracked armored vehicles with wheeled vehicles,” Chirkin said. “We will soon start R&D work on the development of wheeled vehicles.”

    The general said the replacement will involve self-propelled guns, air defense systems and light tanks.

    One of the main reasons for the replacement is the longer service life of the wheeled vehicles, he said.

    “The service life of the tracked vehicles until a major overhaul is up to 30,000 kilometers while that of the wheeled vehicles is up to 1 million kilometers,” Chirkin said.

    Wheeled vehicles will also allow the military to minimize railroad transport during redeployment.

    Russia signed a deal with Italy’s Iveco company last December on the semi-knocked down assembly of Lynx light multirole armored vehicles for the Russian Ground Forces in the central Russia city of Voronezh.

    In addition, Russia is currently working with France on the development of armored vehicles with a French wheeled base but equipped with Russian weapons and Russian turrets.


    Read more: Russian Army to Switch to Wheeled Armored Vehicles | Army & Land Forces News at DefenceTalk
     
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  3. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Russian Army wants to adopt French Rapid Reaction concept, it will make them far more deployable in and out of their borders.
     
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  4. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    All this foreign military equipment acquisitions and JVs only goes to show the extent of the rot in the Russian arms industry.
     
  5. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    From when was an armoured vehicle an "Arm"?
    Surely you must be blind when you say things like these noting how "little" arms and ammunitions they are still producing. Pity a "mighty" country like Malaysia can't match up to their standards.
     
  6. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    The fact is that while Soviet Union and later Russian Federation as it'd descendant were countries very well experienced with tracked armored fighting vehicles, they somewhat lacked in terms of wheeled armored fighting vehicles.

    It might be true that while tracked platform "Armata" and "Kurganets" will be 100% Russian made, wheeled platform "Boomerang" might be a hybrid of Russian and western european experience and technology. This is why Russians intends to buy west european wheeled platforms.
     
  7. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    It all is excuses about the resource of technique. In soviet time a resource was yet less than, and caterpillar machines rode far anymore. I can understand that Russia buys Amphibious assault ship "Mistral" at France , similar technologies remained in Ukraine and in Poland, but I do not understand why it was to buy LAV IVEKO, when is LAV TIGER . Americans also searched a panacea in APCs "Stryker". And now hastily to him search replacement. The whole world changes on heavy IFV and Russia backs up back. Armand rights - rises mobility. But it in France, where the road - transport system is developed. And for us (Ukraine, Russia, Belorussia of good roads has never been). There is the old saying "In Russia two misfortunes - fools and roads".
     
  8. imd47

    imd47 Regular Member

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    It's a political action....... russia buys iveco ....iveco...... sell kamaz's ......like ussia buys mistrals ... reanault sells ladas. Use the military imports to try to create civilian industrial joint ventures




    Today's s russia have mi26's , il 76's, an22's , an 124........... and the airmobile, airdropable and heliborne vdv......


    russian light forces be more deployable
     
  9. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    But if so that it is foolishness, Better from it not military it will not be civil up country. I will try to explain on the example of Ukrainian automotive. There is such car factory of ZAZ in Ukraine. He produced many different brands of cars on a license, but most important, he produced the model of class And+ (Tavria - Hatchback, Slavuta is sedan, Danna is all-round craftsman). A basket was outdated, design of salon also from 80 – s (a car it was begun to produce yet at the USSR), but people were arranged by an undercarriage, engine, and main is PRICE! A car costed 4-5000 dollars. This was a machine for all. On an export he was not for sale practically - was not competitive, but in Ukraine he was snatched away, as hot patties. Competitors were him the Chinese. Their machines looked modern, but suffered bad quality. ZAZ they were sold by almost 250000 in a year. Thanks to Ukraine went out him into 5 place in Europe, on the sales of auto. In a year Ukrainians bought 600000 cars. A half was the products of ZAZ, other, who that could itself allow ( from Lada to Maybach). Do to the machine a new design and she yet long could be a competition at the internal market. But an export brings large money and guidance of ZAZ decided to renew a model line. Now the more than half of his products leaves on an export. But he began to produce only 140000 cars in a year. The profits of him did not diminish, and increased, because his cheapest machine, began to cost 75000$. But the amount of sales fell down not only for him but also at foreign cars, because, that bought the Ukrainian cars, the state of increased is customs duties. As a result Ukraine slipped down into 15 place in Europe, and the amount of cars on 1000 men for us is most subzero from the European countries.
    Though we and named the different states, but in Ukraine and in Russia almost identical mentality, problems and people. On a general background Russia is richer. But at the level of simple citizens for us identical situation.
    Therefore neither Russian nor the Ukrainian government not strongly bakes about the people, and only at profit countries - therefore for us and problem in fools.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  10. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Russian Arms Industry is bracing up for more exports..
     
  11. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    VDV are the only deployable light forces, France has its own airbourne troops. It took Russian Ground Forces better part of a month just to move troops for exercises near Belarusian border in their own military district. The logistics of Soviet tracked vehicles is too much for current Russian infrastructure to support, much less worse bordering infrastructure.
     
  12. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Yeah, with their skyrocketing prices for Cold War tech, in their dreams. Right now they're swallowing their prides with these JVs just to survive...
     
  13. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Uralvagonzavod delcared that they will be able to finish work on "Armata" MBT variant 10 months before schedule. We will see, but if yes then it is a very good information.

    Work on "Boomerang" wheeled platform and "Kurganets" tracked platform is also moving forward, however nobody knows when prototypes will be ready for state tests.
     
  14. imd47

    imd47 Regular Member

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    The vdv be bigger than french light forces......... they can airbone heavy equipament like tanks or self propeled artillery......
    Your army can't heliproped a misery 4x4 truck..... , french oinly can be deployabed with another countries aviation....... likr the ch47 of thr another nato countries........

    the reality is ........ light forces can destroy a armoured enemy.......a mgs or amx10rc not be a rival to a mbt..... but can airbone a striker brigade, us army air corps can helidroped humvees and another medium equipament.......

    a tracked vehicule be a high intensity combat vehicule....... a bmp3m, a pume , a warior, a ascod2..... have more firepower, protection, cross country capacity than vbci......... the logitcs is secundary





    fast deployement forcces based in trains and highways be a joke.......... yours can't do the pristina raid .......... if germans autobahn be closed,

    It's clear , you don't know the limitations of the french fast deployement forces to be be deployed ......... yours marines don't have real armored suport and do't can heliproped any kind of vehicle to the beach, yours paras don't have armour ..... and can't helidroped vehicles... yours can airborne nothing bigger than old model amx10rc


    Your don't be the usa........ russia can move a vdv division of the baltic to the osetia........ yours c160 can't do...., your can't deployed a single leclerc to a-stabn by yourself. ..........a extraordinary level of deployement capacity
     
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  15. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    There are two types of brigades in VDV. Airmobile (Air assault) and Airborne. A difference is in that the first desantiruyut the easier, but more have a heavy technique which it is delivered later. Second - directly desantiruyutsya with a technique (sometimes straight in her) and can pass straight from air in treading on the place of arms of enemy. Here they need a tracked vehicles which maintains more high overloads just.
     
  16. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Russian Army is 4X size of France so shouldn't it be bigger? No, French army doesn't paradrop its heavy equipment, it flies it in on unprepared landing areas. That is how every NATO nation does it including USA. NH-90/Super Puma can winch a 4x4 truck with ease.

    VDV doesn't use MBTs nor does US airbourne use Stryker. VDV uses Sprut anti-tank gun which is no match for an AMX-10RCR. France airdrops VBL and other medium equipment... so what? French and US paratroopers use similar concepts. It is not a mechanized formation like VDV.

    None of which are airbourne vehicles. Heavy mech brigades have more firepower. VBCI has similar firepower to the M2 Bradley so what are you saying? I agree it needs CT40 as it reduces logistics. It has better protection than a BMP-3. Its cross country ability is fine. The logistics are essential . That is where wars are won and lost.

    France can't drive 200 soldiers 100km? Now that is a joke. :laugh: Russia relies on trains to transport its Army, that is why it took nearly a month to deploy it for a preplanned exercise.

    If French marines require MBT support, they will get Leclercs. Mistrals are fully capable of landing heaviest equipment and amphibous task force is interchangable with other Army formations. What is wrong with AMX-10RCR? It has been upgraded with GALIX APS, new thermals, SIT-V1 BMS, uprated armour, new suspension and faster gearbox. I would rather be in networked latest gen anti-tank gun than old Soviet tank.

    We are not USA but out paras have bigger recon gun. A VDV division is smaller than our Para division so we can do. We do not need Leclerc in afbanistan and if we did, we can transport by partial disassembly. It is quite capable level of deployment, with A400M and NH-90 brings it to first rate. What country are you from? Spain?? :rofl:
     
  17. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    That is a concept the spainard does not recognize. He thinks you just drop whatever you want where you want not realizing you have to secure the LZ first. It is the same concept with NATO forces except they land C-130s on dirt rather than drop them out the back of the aircraft. In some cases C-130 will drop it a few feet off the ground, however i don't recommend it.
     
  18. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    2S25 use 125mm smoothbore gun. AMX-10RCR use 105mm rifled gun. What vehicle have more firepower? Not to mention that 2S25 can fire GLATGM's with a effective range of 5,000m. And with mechanized loading system, rate of fire is much higher in Russian vehicle.

    Neither of these vehicles can survive a hit of APDS or APFSDS round even from many types of small/medium calliber automatic cannons, but Russians at least have descent ERA 4S24 that can be used on light weight platforms. Protection of French vehicle in such situation is useless against all anti tank threats.

    Also 2S25 Sprut-SD have more modern fire control system.

    So maybe You will educate Yourself, stop being arrogant and ignorant, stereotypical Frenchmen, and You will stop spreading BS everywhere?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
  19. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Won't work during the Russian thaw.

    Tracks will!
     
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  20. Damian

    Damian Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    There is also another problem. Not even anti tank weapons like RPG's and ATGM's are growing in capabilities. But also small to medium calliber automatic cannons are.

    Look at the tendency, 40mm CTA automatic cannons in NATO, Russians want to go even further with 47mm CTA and 57mm auto cannons.

    Tracked vehicle can be up-armored and still preserve it's mobility. Now show me a 40 or 50 tons heavy wheeled AFV that will preserve it's mobility, especially in hard terrain.

    And knowing that IFV needs alot of space for it's dismounts, this means that after up-armoring it's weight will increase.

    But this up-armoring might be nececity knowing growth in potential of automatic cannons, main armament of most IFV's and even some APC's.

    And there is also one more aspect, currently wheeled vehicles have better mine/IED protection, simply because their hull is further away from the ground but... tracked vehicles also can have such capability by use of hydrogas suspension system with variable controlled height level, not only this, but it will also give option to install addon armor for belly, without decreasing mobility.
     
  21. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Nothing revolutionary not will. All airmobile brigades wheel-mounted. you look, BRDM- 2 with a complex ATGM. To changing Tiger (rus.) and Dozor-B ( ukr.) goes him. BTR- 80, BTR-82А and BTR- 4 ( although better there would be BTR- 3), a towed howitzer of D- 30, MLRS "Grad-D", SAM "Osa" (Stylet).
    All motor-car technique from GAZ to KaMAZ. Airmobile brigade so can go a march in a column at a speed of 55-60 km / h. (Airborne 25-30 km / h).
     

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