Russia's Stealth Fighter Could Match U.S. Jets, Analyst Says

[prestigiousindian]

Uncle sam n fans of uncle sam never accept things that are superior to them.. It wont be too long when T-50s gonna bang bang your backyard...........

 

[Bhadra]

the idea that someone somewhere could compete with Uncle Sam has to be a nightmare for Americans. After all they live well by selling their technology which is got to be superior and should not be a loser. That is as simple as that. Americans will maintain their technological advantes in the Fourth Wave econmy or they sink into the ocean surrounding them or go back to the days of Red Indians.

They need to discredit every thing and every one who can take away their fourth wave technological advantage be it French, Chinese, Russian or Japanese. Their survival by dominance is after all at stake...

They call Iraq and Afghanistan as wars and become richer after every such wars. They would generate conditions for failure of T-50 or simply discredit Sadam (T-50). After all they got to generate profits for their Raptors. If F-22 is not superior then they will make F-23 where is the problem.

Simple ... We will live in American dominated 21 century no doubt and Russia definetly can not be competitor. That conclusion should be foregone. And that is half the battle won for the Amirkhans.
@average american

Indian problem is that we need the best for our conditions and environment. We are not given American equipment and we can not pay for it. So we need an alternatives. Till there a space vacated by the Americans someone will occupy it. You seem to be afraid that T-50 with India may be dangerious for your interests as possible F-22 with Pakistan (gifted) in future would be confronted by T-50. It is so simple.

 

[A chauhan]

You people dont live in the real world or have difficulty with reality.

Global Firepower - 2013 World Military Strength Ranking


There seems to be a lot of confusion about how US military strength compares to that of China and Russia. Here are a few of the main categories from 2009 as well as a reference for more info.

Military Defense Spending and Budgets
USA - $515,400,000,000 - Russia - $43,200,000,000= extra budget $472,200,000,000
China - $59,000,000,000
Russia - $43,200,000,000

Aerial-Based Weapons
USA - 18,169 -3,888 = 14281 extra weapons
China - 1,900
Russia - 3,888

Navy Ships
USA - 1559 - 526 = 1033 extra ships
China - 760
Russia - 526

Aircraft Carriers
USA - 12 - 1 = 11 extra ACs
China - 1
Russia - 1

Destroyers
USA - 50 - 15 = 35 extra Destroyers
China - 21
Russia - 15
...

This is where your Extra money is being spent, not entirely on R&D. You are playing the big brother's role don't forget.

 

[jackprince]

@average american

If I may say that you are missing a point about parity of expenditure in r/o the development cost of stealth fighter. When the points of huge difference between salary and infrastructure cost is there. There is also the thing that what USA was building was a concept, an idea, which they gave shape to. from F-117 to F-22 is long struggle of achieving the perfection. However, the Russians has already seen what they want to achieve close to in F-22. They are not developing from ideas only. So, it saves a gr8 deal of time and money to develop an basic concept or finding a new solution. When critical components of F-22 is not known, the basic n sometimes more than basic info is available; and to a trained eye of a designer a picture says a thousand words.

 

[hello_10]

@average american

If I may say that you are missing a point about parity of expenditure in r/o the development cost of stealth fighter. When the points of huge difference between salary and infrastructure cost is there. There is also the thing that what USA was building was a concept, an idea, which they gave shape to. from F-117 to F-22 is long struggle of achieving the perfection. However, the Russians has already seen what they want to achieve close to in F-22. They are not developing from ideas only. So, it saves a gr8 deal of time and money to develop an basic concept or finding a new solution. When critical components of F-22 is not known, the basic n sometimes more than basic info is available; and to a trained eye of a designer a picture says a thousand words.

F22 is for the "Strategic Deterrence" only.

its easy to work on a new project than working on a failed concept

and its a common talks during the classes of management-engineering in Western nations, I too have been part of, that most of the 'saturation' would occur by 2020

when you introduce something new then it bring big price out of it. a new technology which may change the world, bring big inflow of money. but we can't see that struggling US/Western may have anything new to protect their fall, other the news that they are pumping more oil to maintain CAD, and hopefully US would become exporter of oil also by 2020, to have inflow of foreign currency somehow

Gas, other fuels are top U.S. export – USATODAY.com

there is only one news we have about 'unmanned' aircraft, they named it 6th generation aircraft, but it doesn't look that it would be a success, better we already have UAV, drones etc.... and, even if US is doing research on few very special ideas which are not known yet, then the same it true about Russia, China, along with India too, to an extent. every big country has few secret projects, based on few key ideas, which may be 'fully' successful. or, even if those concepts were successful to an extent, they haven't disclosed yet. I mean to say, even if US has few techs which are unknown to the rest of world then the same is true in case of other big nations too. US know what they can do but they dont know what other may also do

and even the shape of F22 tells us much about this aircraft, to get bit ideas for PAK FA too. but when US closed production line of F22, hardly 187 of it they have as its 'very' expansive, while F35 would also cost $200mil+, at least. then that news itself made it clear that F22 mainly serve the purpose of 'strategic deterrence' only. as, even if now they are upgrading F16s, along with their struggle to achieve 'fitness landscape' on expansive F-35/JSF, it clearly means that they couldn't achieve the set goals they had in case of F22 also.... I mean, F-35/JSF is also a 5th gen aircraft, single engine, which is being developed to date, but it still can't really replace the fleet to F16s as it was intended for. as, even if US couldn't achieve the 'fitness landscape' for F35, the minimum requirement/expectation on this project, then how can we believe that they might have achieved the same 'minimum performance' expected from F22, which was developed in 90s, while both are 5th gen aircraft???? it has been a common talk that along with upgrading F16s now, US is wise enough to close production line of F22, with keeping 'secrets' of F22 otherwise others will get more reasons to laugh on F22

a project is either a failure or a success, but if you struggle too much on a project then better close it and start new one. F35 is already delayed for more than 8 to 10 year to date. it was expected by even 2008 earlier, but still its well delayed till 2018, to date, as the professionals working on it now want to go back to the 'design phase' of this project to fix the problems they are facing on the final stage. over 20 prototypes they have built but still the 'main idea' for this project is on the question, couldn't achieve the minimum expected performance/ the 'fitness landscape' too

=> Despite First Production Aircraft Flying, F-35 IOC is Likely to Slip into 2018 af7_f35 – Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News
USAF F-35 initial operating capability slips 2 more years out to 2018 #military #cndpoli #auspol | ELP DEFENS(C)E BLOG

F-35 - a trillion dollar disaster — RT

=>

Independent air combat analysts from Air Power Australia have also stated that the F-35 is not capable of facing high end threats; that what will be delivered (if it ever arrives) will be obsolete; and that the F-35 is not affordable or sustainable.

http://www.f-16.net/news_article4416.html

=> F-35 Delay Forces $3 Billion Upgrade Request for U.S. Air Force F-16s | Aviation International News

 

[Defcon 1]

You people dont live in the real world or have difficulty with reality.

Global Firepower - 2013 World Military Strength Ranking






There seems to be a lot of confusion about how US military strength compares to that of China and Russia. Here are a few of the main categories from 2009 as well as a reference for more info.

Military Defense Spending and Budgets
USA - $515,400,000,000
China - $59,000,000,000
Russia - $43,200,000,000

Aerial-Based Weapons
USA - 18,169
China - 1,900
Russia - 3,888

Navy Ships
USA - 1559
China - 760
Russia - 526

Aircraft Carriers
USA - 12
China - 1
Russia - 1

Destroyers
USA - 50
China - 21
Russia - 15

In addition one must consider that this difference in military budgets has been going on since the USSR collapsed almost 20 years ago. Plus the degree of sophistication of the technology is drastically different as well. ie. All tanks are not created equal! (These numbers do not include atomic weapons).
I wont go into such matters as USA expericence in war, Afganstan, Iraq, Gulf, Kuwait. I will point out the USA has been spending 75 billion a year, year after year on military research and development while the Russians spend less then 2 billion.

I keep wondering every time I hear about the Russian military vs the USA from you all is "Are you all out of your minds."

The US accounted for more than 60 percent of global spending on military
r&d of an estimated US $85 bn in 2004. The USA spends tens times that on civilian research from which their is cross over into military applications.

And still US can't beat Taliban, that means the people spending that money are a group of jokers.

Anyways, I have already told to you to study about the PPP theory which will help you to understand that the difference between military budgets of US and rest of the world is not so stark.

Every time I see your posts, I feel like why does this guy doesn't listen to anyone else.

 

[p2prada]

Every time I see your posts, I feel like why does this guy doesn't listen to anyone else.

He only posts, doesn't read what he himself posts, let alone others'.

His posts are devoid of sense and simply plain annoying.

 

[average american]

Reality is annoying, its much better to dream that a nation with ten percent of the US defense budget and 1/75 percent reasearch and development of the USA for the last 20 years can build a just as good a plane as the USA. What have you seen in the last 50 years that would bring you to that conclusion.

 

[Defcon 1]

Reality is annoying, its much better to dream that a nation with ten percent of the US defense budget and 1/75 percent reasearch and development of the USA for the last 20 years can build a just as good a plane as the USA. What have you seen in the last 50 years that would bring you to that conclusion.

What I have seen is that US's military budget is not actually 10 times that of Russia or China when seen through the eyes of PPP.

 

[average american]

@average american

Can you post the list of 6-7 stealth fighters that have been produced by the US. I googled and found that only stealth planes in production were F117, B2, F22 and now F35. Rest have been cancelled or tech demonstrators only.

Complete List of All Stealth Aircrafts Manufactured (5 Items)

Couple more were quite stealthy, such as Lockheed U-2

 

[Defcon 1]

Complete List of All Stealth Aircrafts Manufactured (5 Items)

Couple more were quite stealthy, such as Lockheed U-2

Lockheed U-2 was not an stealth aircraft. Your list also confirms what I have said, only B-2, F22, and F117 have entered production. Out of these, only F117 was successful as both B2 and F22 got their orders drastically reduced, making them near cancelled projects. So there were no 6-7 stealth fighters produced by US that you are talking about.

 

[average american]

What I have seen is that US's military budget is not actually 10 times that of Russia or China when seen through the eyes of PPP.

Quote: purchasing power parity (PPP) Quote: Russia Rank 52 : 284,000,000,000 $ Lists of countries by GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (PPP)_per_capita Well i don't know exactly how this is calculated 1 World $ 65,820,000,000,000 2007 est. 2 European Union $ 14,450,000,000,000 2007 est. 3 United States $ 13,860,000,000,000 2007 est. 4 China $ 7,043,000,000,000 2007 est. 5 Japan $ 4,417,000,000,000 2007 ...

Russia main problem is that their best and brightest scientist and most skill technican has fled to the EU or USA for much higher paying jobs and better standards of living. The USA has hired some of their top nuclear weapon scientist, for two reasons we wanted their expertise and we did not want them going to the middle east, Syria or Iran.

 

[average american]

Lockheed U-2 was not an stealth aircraft. Your list also confirms what I have said, only B-2, F22, and F117 have entered production. Out of these, only F117 was successful as both B2 and F22 got their orders drastically reduced, making them near cancelled projects. So there were no 6-7 stealth fighters produced by US that you are talking about.

All planes are canceled sooner or later, if your not going to count the F22 or F35, I would not count the PAK FA there are only four prototypes and they certainly are not stealty, they have about 500 times the radar signature of the F22 as large as cruise missile that can be detected hundreds of miles away. NCADE: An ABM AMRAAM – Or Something More?

 

[Defcon 1]

Quote: purchasing power parity (PPP) Quote: Russia Rank 52 : 284,000,000,000 $ Lists of countries by GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (PPP)_per_capita Well i don't know exactly how this is calculated 1 World $ 65,820,000,000,000 2007 est. 2 European Union $ 14,450,000,000,000 2007 est. 3 United States $ 13,860,000,000,000 2007 est. 4 China $ 7,043,000,000,000 2007 est. 5 Japan $ 4,417,000,000,000 2007 ...

Why didn't you quote China here? Probably because in PPP terms china's GDP surpasses about 70% of US's GDP. Also India's GDP also becomes greater than 25% of US's GDP. These are not the numbers Indians or Chinese can be proud of but it just gives you the idea of how figures can change when you start looking at them in the real terms.

About calculation of PPP, it is actually very difficult to do accurately, a crude assumption can be done using McDonald's burger(I forgot which burger)

If lets say that a McD burget costs 1 dollar in US and the same one costs 19 Rupees in India, then 1 dollar= 19 rupees.

now lets say that value of dollar in forex markets is equal to Rs 57.

For calculating India's nominal GDP, you will calculate the GDP in Rupees and divide it by 57.

For calculating India's GDP according to PPP you calculate the GDP in Rupees and divide it by 19.

 

[Defcon 1]

All planes are canceled sooner or later, if your not going to count the F22 or F35, I would not count the PAK FA there are only four prototypes and they certainly are not stealty, they have about 500 times the radar signature of the F22 as large as cruise missile that can be detected hundreds of miles away. NCADE: An ABM AMRAAM – Or Something More?

You are yet to prove your claims about RCS of PAK FA

I am ready to count F22 and B2 and F117. But that gives us only 3 stealth planes as opposed to 6-7 you were claiming before.

 

[average american]

Lockheed U-2 was not an stealth aircraft. Your list also confirms what I have said, only B-2, F22, and F117 have entered production. Out of these, only F117 was successful as both B2 and F22 got their orders drastically reduced, making them near cancelled projects. So there were no 6-7 stealth fighters produced by US that you are talking about.

HowStuffWorks "The U-2 Spy Plane"
The plane is a bomber with stealth technology. The design looks very strange, and some say that it is very unstable at low speeds due to the odd wing design.
science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/area-514.htm

Evidently the real world does not agree with your definition of stealth.

 

[Defcon 1]

HowStuffWorks "The U-2 Spy Plane"
The plane is a bomber with stealth technology. The design looks very strange, and some say that it is very unstable at low speeds due to the odd wing design.
science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/area-514.htm

Evidently the real world does not agree with your definition of stealth.

Oh my god, can't stop laughing.

I will just post the whole paragraph here from your link:

The Bird of Prey takes its name from a class of ships in Star Trek. The plane is a bomber with stealth technology. The design looks very strange, and some say that it is very unstable at low speeds due to the odd wing design.

That is the line you posted right?? It is very clearly talking about "Bird of Prey", which was a different aircraft altogether, and was developed by Boeing, while U-2 was developed by Lockheed. The bird of Prey itself, although a stealth aircraft, was also a TD and never entered production. Here is the wiki link to it.

Boeing Bird of Prey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you even read yourself what you post?

 

[average american]

I would consider these stealth or partly stealth planes use to develope the technology.
experimental bomber called the YB-49 Flying Wing

The task of making this plane a reality fell upon the Advanced Development Projects team at Lockheed in California. This was a small team of highly qualified and highly motivated engineers and pilots. This highly secret facility became known as the "Skunk Works" and has been on the leading edge of stealth technology since the early 1950s.

The aircraft they developed became known as the U-2, and it was highly successful. The U-2 was the first aircraft to use radarabsorbing paint known as "Iron Ball."

A-12 aircraft (later to be the SR-71) was based on low observability. Since no other aircraft had ever been developed with this in mind, it's not surprising the resulting aircraft looked unlike anything that had ever flown

Lockheed set about using the A-12 technology to design a pilotless vehicle. Project Senior Bowl produced the D-21 drone. It was designed to be dropped from another aircraft, probably an A-12 or B-52. It resembles one engine and the outer wing of the A-12. More extensive use of RAM and other stealth methods made this drone almost undetectable. The D-21 would be flown by radio into enemy territory to collect data. Once clear of the enemy border, it would drop the info by parachute. This chute would be snagged by another aircraft before it hit the ground. The drone would then self-destruct over the ocean, if possible. Little is known about the program except that few were used operationally and the aircraft was retired in 1972.

The war in Vietnam posed a whole new set of problems to military planners. This was not a mechanized army we were up against but one that moved primarily at night, on foot and on bicycles—a very quiet army. Without the background noise of trucks and tanks, a recon plane overhead could easily be heard. Again Lockheed was contracted to produce an aircraft capable of performing reconnaissance undetected. At first, gliders were modified. Highly muffled engines and large, slow-turning props were added with great success.

This led to the development of the Q-Star and the YO-3. These aircraft were not very fast, had no armor, and were not very maneuverable. They were the first true stealth aircraft, as they relied totally on their ability to pass undetected behind enemy lines.
F-117A

There were countless drones and protypes, forty years , hundreds of billions of dollars,

Stealth History

 

[average american]

Do you see problem with Russia building an air craft as advanced as F22 or F35 when after spending 5 billion of Indias money they still cant get the engines to work in an aircraft carrier, one that is over 30 years old. Dont you think the PAK FA is going to be a million times more complex and one little mistake in design and we have a lot more of Indias flying coffins.

Add to that the fact Russia needs they money and they are not going to tell you about the mistakes and the problems.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

russian stealth fighter pak-fa is not a new design like f-22,j-20, f35.pak-fa.rather it is a evolution of the flanker series.what pakfa lacks in stealth shaping it will make up in superior aerodynamic performance,longer range,better engine than f22 wih 3d tvc and ram coating.