Russia's MiG starts new batch of fighters for Indian Navy

[p2prada]

The Americans lost the Korean war and Vietnam war (very badly) when either China or Soviet Union (in a small way) was involved.

When the allies were pushed back in Korea, it was called a "strategic retreat."

US won against itty bitty Iraq and Afghanistan when neither China or Soviet Union were involved.

US couldn't do anything to save Georgia when the Russians invaded. Couldn't do jack sh!t when India broke Pakistan into two.

Wow! American power is great. Nice weapons, but can't win wars which matter.

 

[SilentKiller]

Would be glad to debate the subject but figure this is the place for discussing Russia's MiG starts new batch of fighters for Indian Navy which is the Mig 27 a 30 year old plane and I expect the main reason for it is to keep some 30 year old factory in operaton more to provide jobs then defend India.

Correction its Mig29k and Mig27 is older.
economy leads to better defence

 

[p2prada]

F-18 is a 40 year old plane. F-16 is a 40 year old plane. F-15 is a 40 year old plane.

Factories are still churning our these aircraft. Saving jobs of course. Nothing else.

 

[SilentKiller]

The Americans lost the Korean war and Vietnam war (very badly) when either China or Soviet Union (in a small way) was involved.

When the allies were pushed back in Korea, it was called a "strategic retreat."

US won against itty bitty Iraq and Afghanistan when neither China or Soviet Union were involved.

US couldn't do anything to save Georgia when the Russians invaded. Couldn't do jack sh!t when India broke Pakistan into two.

Wow! American power is great. Nice weapons, but can't win wars which matter.

Korean war wasn't american war..it was war were UN gave its go head. its totally different from Vietnam or Iraq war were there was no UN mandate.

 

[Novice]

Would be glad to debate the subject but figure this is the place for discussing Russia's MiG starts new batch of fighters for Indian Navy which is the Mig 27 a 30 year old plane and I expect the main reason for it is to keep some 30 year old factory in operaton more to provide jobs then defend India.

Edited.
Looks p2prada already posted a better timeline of 16 and 18

 

[average american]

The Americans lost the Korean war and Vietnam war (very badly) when either China or Soviet Union (in a small way) was involved.

When the allies were pushed back in Korea, it was called a "strategic retreat."

US won against itty bitty Iraq and Afghanistan when neither China or Soviet Union were involved.

US couldn't do anything to save Georgia when the Russians invaded. Couldn't do jack sh!t when India broke Pakistan into two.

Wow! American power is great. Nice weapons, but can't win wars which matter.

Is this a comparison of the US to India that outnumberd Pakistan six to one in the Kargil war and still lost.

 

[p2prada]

Korean war wasn't american war..it was war were UN gave its go head. its totally different from Vietnam or Iraq war were there was no UN mandate.

UN or no UN. The soldiers don't fight less efficiently depending on who allows them to fight.

According to AA's argument, the Americans should have steamrolled the enemy with a 10:1 kill ratio, it not 100:1 or even lose the wars.

You may know how the Korean war was. S Koreans were losing, Americans interfered. N Koreans started losing, China interfered.

Allies were pushed back hundreds of miles before ceasefire was initiated.

 

[average american]

Korea ended up the same as it was befor the war to start and as you can see its clear N Korea would be a lot better offf if the south had won,

The USA has come a long way since the Korean war back on the subject of Mig 27s,,,,, the US still sells the F16 to other countries the US does airforce does not buy them any more you should have considered the F-16 it has a 92:13 kill/loss ratio, with MiG 29 having a 16:28 kill/loss ratio.

 

[Defcon 1]

Would be glad to debate the subject but figure this is the place for discussing Russia's MiG starts new batch of fighters for Indian Navy which is the Mig 27 a 30 year old plane and I expect the main reason for it is to keep some 30 year old factory in operaton more to provide jobs then defend India.

You are the most ignorant, arrogant, self centred and delusional bastard on this forum. You think that every idea that comes into your mind is so golden that it can't be wrong. You didn't even read that the topic is about Mig 29 and not Mig 27 and started posting, like you always do.

You idiot, I already told you that your junk fighters F15(taken down by our Mig21) and F16 are even older than that. Both of them are 40 years old so if Mig 29 belongs you a factory, your teen series belongs to museums build in the Jurassic era. And I am seeing how much your shitty planes have done to protect your country, where after waging war against Taliban for 10 year, you are still taking over 500 casualities a year. Your soldiers should be feeling insanely more safe now when they know that some of them will definitely be beheaded and their video will be shared across internet.

 

[Apollyon]

The USA has come a long way since the Korean war back on the subject of Mig 27s,,,,, the US still sells the F16 to other countries the US does airforce does not buy them any more you should have considered the F-16 it has a 92:13 kill/loss ratio, with MiG 29 having a 16:28 kill/loss ratio.

and Russia sell Mig-29, so what's the point here ?

[Name of aircraft] Air-to-air kills - Air-to-air losses - Losses to ground fire

F-16 Falcon 76-1-5
Gulf War (USA) 0-0-3
No-Fly Zones (USA) 2-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 4-0-1
Kosovo (USA) 1-0-1
Kosovo (Netherlands) 1-0-0
Kosovo (Portugal, Belgium, Denmark, Turkey) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (USA, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA) 0-0-0
Syrian border clashes 1979-1986 (Israel) 6-0-0
Operation Opera (Israel) 0-0-0
Lebanon War (1982) (Israel) 44-0-0
Lebanon War (2006) (Israel) 3-0-0
Intifada (2000-present) (Israel) 0-0-0
Soviet-Afghan War (Pakistan) 10-0-0
Border clashes (Pakistan) 1-0-0
Kargil War (Pakistan) 0-0-0
Northwest border wars (Pakistan) 0-0-0
Aegean Sea clashes (Turkey) 1-1-0
Venezuelan Coup 1992 (Venezuela) 3-0-0

F-15A/C/I/S Eagle 102-0-0
Gulf War (USA) 32-0-0
Gulf War (Saudi Arabia) 2-0-0
Northern Watch, Southern Watch, Desert Fox (USA) 2-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 0-0-0
Kosovo (USA) 4-0-0
Afghanistan (USA) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA) 0-0-0
Syrian border clashes 1979-1981 (Israel) 19-0-0
Operation Opera (Israel) 0-0-0
Lebanon War (1982) (Israel) 38-0-0
Lebanon War 1982-2000 (Israel) 4-0-0
Lebanon War (2006) (Israel) 0-0-0
Iran Gulf Clash 1984 (Saudi Arabia) 1-0-0


F-14 Tomcat 135-4-4
Vietnam (1975) (USA) 0-0-0
Gulf of Sidra (USA) (1980) 2-0-0
Lebanon 1983 (USA) 0-0-0
Gulf of Sidra (1986) 0-0-0
Gulf of Sidra (1989) 2-0-0
Gulf War (USA) 1-0-1
Iraq NFZs (USA) 0-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 0-0-0
Kosovo (USA) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (USA) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA) 0-0-0
Iran-Iraq War (Iran) 130-4-4

F-4 Phantom 306-106-545
Vietnam War (US Navy) 40-7-66
Vietnam War (USMC) 3-1-74
Vietnam War (USAF) 108-33-337
Iran-Iraq War (Iran) 68-29-33
War of Attrition (Israel) 26-3-5
Yom Kippur War (Israel) 55-28-22

The only time Americans faced a well trained force armed with Soviet weapon system they got their asses handed over to them .

 

[average american]

You are the most ignorant, arrogant, self centred and delusional bastard on this forum. You think that every idea that comes into your mind is so golden that it can't be wrong. You didn't even read that the topic is about Mig 29 and not Mig 27 and started posting, like you always do.

You idiot, I already told you that your junk fighters F15(taken down by our Mig21) and F16 are even older than that. Both of them are 40 years old so if Mig 29 belongs you a factory, your teen series belongs to museums build in the Jurassic era. And I am seeing how much your shitty planes have done to protect your country, where after waging war against Taliban for 10 year, you are still taking over 500 casualities a year. Your soldiers should be feeling insanely more safe now when they know that some of them will definitely be beheaded and their video will be shared across internet.

I thought that was Indian soldiers that were being beheaded. A study found F-16 has a 92:13 kill/loss ratio, with MiG 29 having a 16:28 kill/loss ratio. I am not sure a Mig 27 has ever shot down anyting, maybe a couple of civilian planes and a drone. 16 to 28 kill/loss means that about 2 Mig 29 get shot down for every enemy plane.

 

[p2prada]

Korea ended up the same as it was befor the war to start and as you can see its clear N Korea would be a lot better offf if the south had won,

ROFL. China warned the US not to interfere. After the US interfered, the Chinese warned the US not to cross the 38th parallel. US crossed the 38th and pushed almost towards the Chinese border. Then the Chinese interfered. China steamrolled the allies back behind the 38th parallel and the allies pushed for a ceasefire.

Lets just say the Korean war ended how the Chinese wanted it to end.

Is this a comparison of the US to India that outnumberd Pakistan six to one in the Kargil war and still lost.

ROFL. No wonder why you call yourself "Average." Go read up on history. You are severely lacking there.

We won Kargil war. They had a massive terrain advantage and we had a numbers advantage to offset the terrain advantage.

Have you seen movies like Vertical Limit and Cliff Hanger? Those were trailers and demos to what IA did in Kargil.

Put the US in the same situation, the great US army wouldn't even have tried it. Heck you couldn't flush one guy out of a bunch of mole hills and you wanna compare with us.

 

[p2prada]

F-4 Phantom 306-106-545
Vietnam War (US Navy) 40-7-66
Vietnam War (USMC) 3-1-74
Vietnam War (USAF) 108-33-337
Iran-Iraq War (Iran) 68-29-33
War of Attrition (Israel) 26-3-5
Yom Kippur War (Israel) 55-28-22

The only time Americans faced a well trained force armed with Soviet weapon system they got their asses handed over to them .

It was after this debacle that the Americans decided they needed to train their pilots better for a real war. Top Gun was setup after that.

 

[average american]

ROFL. China warned the US not to interfere. After the US interfered, the Chinese warned the US not to cross the 38th parallel. US crossed the 38th and pushed almost towards the Chinese border. Then the Chinese interfered. China steamrolled the allies back behind the 38th parallel and the allies pushed for a ceasefire.

Lets just say the Korean war ended how the Chinese wanted it to end.



ROFL. No wonder why you call yourself "Average." Go read up on history. You are severely lacking there.

We won Kargil war. They had a massive terrain advantage and we had a numbers advantage to offset the terrain advantage.

Have you seen movies like Vertical Limit and Cliff Hanger? Those were trailers and demos to what IA did in Kargil.

Put the US in the same situation, the great US army wouldn't even have tried it. Heck you couldn't flush one guy out of a bunch of mole hills and you wanna compare with us.

Do you mean like how well you all are doing in Kashmir Indian Soldier's Head Cut Off By Pakistani Army Troops!!! - YouTube

 

[Defcon 1]

It was after this debacle that the Americans decided they needed to train their pilots better for a real war. Top Gun was setup after that.

Not only that, the F-4 phantoms had to modified to accomondate cannons after they fell out from the skies like flies. The initial phantoms did not come up cannons installed. Vietnam war also resulted in the birth of F16, otherwise F15 was supposed to be the only air superiority fighter of US.

 

[average american]

It was after this debacle that the Americans decided they needed to train their pilots better for a real war. Top Gun was setup after that.

If I read the figures right was 3 to 1 for air to air kills and yes we did want to make it to 100 to 0,,, seems to be working.

 

[p2prada]

Do you mean like how well you all are doing in Kashmir Indian Soldier's Head Cut Off By Pakistani Army Troops!!! - YouTube

How about, you don't know what's going on so no point answering your question.

Why don't you send a letter to your local senators demanding to know how many American soldiers had their heads cut off before it was recovered?

If I read the figures right was 3 to 1 for air to air kills and yes we did want to make it to 100 to 0,,, seems to be working.

It seems you take pride in beating up little kids. Okay, live your American dream.

 

[average american]

How about, you don't know what's going on so no point answering your question.

Why don't you send a letter to your local senators demanding to know how many American soldiers had their heads cut off before it was recovered?



It seems you take pride in beating up little kids. Okay, live your American dream.

When american shoots down enemy planes 3 to one, we are beat up little kids, when India outnumber Pakistan 30000 to 5000and uses their air force and army to win agains a country that does not use their airforce or military and you end up loseing more men, tanks and planes and end up where you started after public pressure drives Pakistan back to its borders , you consider that a win. right,,, just so I understand this.

Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SilentKiller]

I thought that was Indian soldiers that were being beheaded. A study found F-16 has a 92:13 kill/loss ratio, with MiG 29 having a 16:28 kill/loss ratio. I am not sure a Mig 27 has ever shot down anyting, maybe a couple of civilian planes and a drone. 16 to 28 kill/loss means that about 2 Mig 29 get shot down for every enemy plane.

Mig 27 is ground attack plane...
how many planes AC 10 has shot?
its same dull question as yours...

 

[p2prada]

When american shoots down enemy planes 3 to one, we are beat up little kids, when India outnumber Pakistan 30000 to 5000and uses their air force and army to win agains a country that does not use their airforce or military and you end up loseing more men, tanks and planes and end up where you started after public pressure drives Pakistan back to its borders , you consider that a win. right,,, just so I understand this.

Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

India Pak are of equal power and have been bitter enemies since their birth. Kargil war, the Pakistanis ----ED up big time.

The Pakistanis thought the US will come to their aid. Not military intervention, but diplomatic.

They didn't use their air force because they knew they wouldn't have stood a chance. They didn't wanna risk a full blown war especially when only India had operational nukes in the theater.

US and Russia or SU were the real enemies of each other and are of equal power. Iraq, Afghanistan are just little kids you picked on and were once upon a time within the sphere of influence of the SU.

Beating on tiny nations with 30 countries' armed forces after starving them for a decade isn't bullying, then what is?

America was always numerically superior when it came to air force. I already gave you figures for THE fIRST Gulf War a long time back. Something like 40:1 and the enemy was a generation behind in platform, two generations behind in serviceability and training. You can say you took your most modern air force and went back to fight against a Vietnam era force belonging to Iraq. When you fought the real enemy you lost. When you fought countries who were not your real enemies, you are still trying to win. When it comes to your real enemies like Iran and North Korea your country is being gutless and whiny.

Nothing different when it came to ground forces. In both Iraq and Afghanistan you outnumbered the enemy by a huge margin. Supposedly half a million Allies + 100000 Kurds against some 50000 to 100000 Iraqis who actually fought. In Afghanistan it was nearly 500000 Allies ( against some 30000-60000 Taliban forces fighting from pack mules and horses.

The Israeli 100:0 kill ratio is against an enemy with inferior jets and without training. It isn't an American figure.

The Iraq war was worse, it was like playing a national football team against the Pee Wee league and you beat them when you were minimum 10:1, the Pee Wee league players were blind folded to boot.

In other words, not one bit impressive on what you are trying to boast about.

Meaning you keep throwing figures which don't matter when you actually fight a real enemy, which you never have done since the Vietnam war. And the figures for Vietnam war are there for you to see.