Russia's MiG starts new batch of fighters for Indian Navy

[average american]

I hope you all realize that the Kill Ratio MiG.-29 _______ 10:28 about 3 are shot down for every kill the Mig 29 has. Fighter pliots some time refer to the Mig 29 as the plane that likes to be shot down.

 

[sayareakd]

if i remember correctly an invisible plane was shot down by very old Russian system some years ago.

 

[Decklander]

I hope you all realize that the Kill Ratio MiG.-29 _______ 10:28 about 3 are shot down for every kill the Mig 29 has. Fighter pliots some time refer to the Mig 29 as the plane that likes to be shot down.

We did DACTS(Dissimilar aircombat training and simulation) with it and to our shock we found that Matra Magics cud lock on to it even in headon engagement mode due to its large oversized engine exhausts.

 

[Sam2012]

What about Ski jump Shore based test facility in GOA? will that be ready after 2014 as well

godamn every thing in india has become slow we import 70% arms , all major projects are delayed scorpene , INS Vikramaditya, Vikrant class carriers, Kolkata class destroyer , NLCA etc this is school boy stuff

 

[Decklander]

What about Ski jump Shore based test facility in GOA? will that be ready after 2014 as well

godamn every thing in india has become slow we import 70% arms , all major projects are delayed scorpene , INS Vikramaditya, Vikrant class carriers, Kolkata class destroyer , NLCA etc this is school boy stuff

It is nearly ready and will be operationalised very very soon.

 

[Sam2012]

It is nearly ready and will be operationalised very very soon.

You mean Ski Jump shore based facility?

 

[Decklander]

You mean Ski Jump shore based facility?

Yes. That is what I meant.

 

[Apollyon]

We did DACTS(Dissimilar aircombat training and simulation) with it and to our shock we found that Matra Magics cud lock on to it even in headon engagement mode due to its large oversized engine exhausts.

So how capable are these Mig-29K's, supposedly the most advanced production variant ?
I think chances of Mig-29K's facing Paki Mirage III/V and JF-17 are much more than anything else, so what are the odds ?

 

[Decklander]

So how capable are these Mig-29K's, supposedly the most advanced production variant ?
I think chances of Mig-29K's facing Paki Mirage III/V and JF-17 are much more than anything else, so what are the odds ?

N-LCA will be a far superior aircraft than them.

 

[average american]

if i remember correctly an invisible plane was shot down by very old Russian system some years ago.

Am just not sure of the wisedom of equiping aircraft carriers with a plane with a 3 to 1 lost ratio against other planes. As matter of fact a plane that a lot of other countries have decided that are not worth the cost of maintaining.

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Se...29s-that-Algeria-rejected/UPI-73581232035135/

Seems like a number of other countries reached the same conclusion.

 

[DivineHeretic]

these weapons are just bought in the name of deterrence but this is just an eyewash.
45 mig-29 can easily be bought down in the presence of advanced SAMs and radars which our enemies have.

Thats being too pessimistic. If it were that easy to bring down a 4th gen fighter, US would have junked the f16s & f18s way back.
Especially against pak which has a rudimentary point defence sam system, these fighters will be more than a handful

 

[DivineHeretic]

So how capable are these Mig-29K's, supposedly the most advanced production variant ?
I think chances of Mig-29K's facing Paki Mirage III/V and JF-17 are much more than anything else, so what are the odds ?

We have to remember that the 29+16 we are getting are not the same as the migs manufactured in the 1980s. They are much improved especially in terms of avionics and jammer systems. Also to be noted is the fact that the earlier migs which were lost in air combat belonged to airforces who at best struggled to train their pilots against modern engagement tactics that were emerging during that period,particularly the EW aspect and BVR doctrines of NATO. Also they went up against the might of an airforce that had superiority in every aspect of the conflict

 

[jackprince]

Am just not sure of the wisedom of equiping aircraft carriers with a plane with a 3 to 1 lost ratio against other planes. As matter of fact a plane that a lot of other countries have decided that are not worth the cost of maintaining.

Russia to fly 34 MiG-29s that Algeria rejected - UPI.com

Seems like a number of other countries reached the same conclusion.

I am also not sure about your wisdom if you have any?

How many Airforces, as equipped and professional as IAF, have used Mig-29 in actual combat? Nil. Yugoslavia's didn't have even enough parts to maintain properly, they had to cannibilize some to maintain others. Iraq Air force faced an overwhelming odds against so much numerically superior and technically advanced enemy, that nothing could have saved them. Further, the Iraqi Migs had to depend to ground based radars for situational awareness, and those radars were the first to have been taken out by F-117, which blinded the fighters.

Now, IAF or IN Migs will be professionally maintained, and AFAIK pilots will go through rigorous training and high flying hours. These migs are also fitted with as advanced equipment as can be made available. Also, these particular Migs will be flying mainly in anti-ship mission, and occasional Air Defence mission as I don't see in near future another carrier equiped navy, but for China, rising hereabout. China's air platforms will be equal in capabilities. Over the sea the AD SAM platforms are easily detectable and could be avoided or made the primary target first. So, attrition 'coz of SAM will be far low.

 

[agentperry]

Thats being too pessimistic. If it were that easy to bring down a 4th gen fighter, US would have junked the f16s & f18s way back.
Especially against pak which has a rudimentary point defence sam system, these fighters will be more than a handful

i dont think its of any good use to compare between a force having 11 super carriers and hundreds of navy and marine fighter planes against a navy which recently started dreaming. though i agree its not so easy to bring down 45 4th gen fighters but still losing few means a lot to india as against the usa.

5 in 45 is 11% but to usa its nothing.

 

[Decklander]

During Kargil war, PAF did the stupidity of scambling few F-16s against IAF fighters operating in the region. MIG-29s were providing fighter cover, the moment they locked thr radar on F-16s, the PAF ran away from the area.

 

[gokussj9]

During Kargil war, PAF did the stupidity of scambling few F-16s against IAF fighters operating in the region. MIG-29s were providing fighter cover, the moment they locked thr radar on F-16s, the PAF ran away from the area.

Sir, why didn't PAF take part in Kargil war? Is it because they were not taken into confidence by Mushi and they weren't prepared or some other reason?

 

[sob]

Sir, why didn't PAF take part in Kargil war? Is it because they were not taken into confidence by Mushi and they weren't prepared or some other reason?

there were reports of severe shortage of spares for the F 16s. They could not sustain a campaign, plus Gen.Musharraf was overconfident that his plan minus the PAF would work like clockwork. He and his staff officers planning the mission never took into consideration that things would not go as per the script.

 

[Decklander]

PAF had only WVR AAms at that time and those F-16s were of no use against M2K & MIG-29s equipped with BVR missiles. The moment we locked our radars on them, they used to run for their life.

 

[average american]

I am also not sure about your wisdom if you have any?

How many Airforces, as equipped and professional as IAF, have used Mig-29 in actual combat? Nil. Yugoslavia's didn't have even enough parts to maintain properly, they had to cannibilize some to maintain others. Iraq Air force faced an overwhelming odds against so much numerically superior and technically advanced enemy, that nothing could have saved them. Further, the Iraqi Migs had to depend to ground based radars for situational awareness, and those radars were the first to have been taken out by F-117, which blinded the fighters.

Now, IAF or IN Migs will be professionally maintained, and AFAIK pilots will go through rigorous training and high flying hours. These migs are also fitted with as advanced equipment as can be made available. Also, these particular Migs will be flying mainly in anti-ship mission, and occasional Air Defence mission as I don't see in near future another carrier equiped navy, but for China, rising hereabout. China's air platforms will be equal in capabilities. Over the sea the AD SAM platforms are easily detectable and could be avoided or made the primary target first. So, attrition 'coz of SAM will be far low.

Heres what the Germans said about the Mig 29,, Luftwaffe MiG-29 experience - positives and negatives

The USA bought up a lot of Mig 29 to keep them from falling into the hands of Iran and to use them for trainiing, they are hell to maintain.

While ground to air missiles like Sams can be a problem for the USA, we have lot of methods to removing them as a threat so we can use F16s, the attacks on Iraq was mainly by F16. With the advent of smart bombs the USA has found it has far more planes then necessasry. Also the life expectancy of ground based ground to air missiles defenses is much less as well as comand and control. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-16_Fighting_Falcon_operational_history

Baghdad was the most defended city outside of Moscow by Sams and Iraq one of the most Sam protected countries in the world and the USA had very little problem overcomeing iraqs defense, enought to throw Russia into a panic, Russia was more then upset with the USA going through Russian tanks like a hot knife thru butter and they figured Iraqs Russian airforce would do a little better, it was not like they were virgins after a ten year air war with Iran.

 

[JBH22]

Sir, why didn't PAF take part in Kargil war? Is it because they were not taken into confidence by Mushi and they weren't prepared or some other reason?

Sir, why didn't PAF take part in Kargil war? Is it because they were not taken into confidence by Mushi and they weren't prepared or some other reason?

Pakistan official stance was that its armed forces was not involve in this conflict,but that these were mujahideens on Kargil.
Northern Light infantry troops were sent there without uniforms to act as non state actors hence when Indian army started pounding with BOFORS the Pakistani generals were shocked and when IAF mirage 2000 stepped in they could not do anything due to their "official stance".

Finally PAF F-16 were not able to fight in BVR mode which IAF Mig-29 had with R-27 missile