Russia Seeks to Reopen Military Bases in Vietnam and Cuba

airtel

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Indian planning of 1971 war was faulty.
:blah::blah::blah:

we defeated & divided Pakistan which was an american & British ally and which Got support of 57 Muslim countries & even Lanka .

and You are calling it Faulty planing ? ? :bplease:
 

airtel

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I apologize to DingDong and to other forum members for getting upset and posting a thread while angered.

My gripes with Dingdong's perspective is that it disenpowers Indians from taking responsibility for our civilization destiny by Blaming others the outcomes of political decisions we've made.

The same thing that has destroyed many Indigenous indian adminstration of our lands in the last 500 years

Second it's just plan wrong to blame your friends and allies for your own failures..it's foolish like gora children in the west Blaming their parents and families when they aren't what they expect to be despite their own personal bad decisions


soviet Union is not Russia .

& if even Russia want to become a friend of USA under trump leadership ..........

then what is Your Problem with India -US relationship ??

stop living in 1971 ..................situation , leadership & policies of US , China , Russia & India are changed .
 

DingDong

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I apologize to DingDong and to other forum members for getting upset and posting a thread while angered.

My gripes with Dingdong's perspective is that it disenpowers Indians from taking responsibility for our civilization destiny by Blaming others the outcomes of political decisions we've made.

The same thing that has destroyed many Indigenous indian adminstration of our lands in the last 500 years

Second it's just plan wrong to blame your friends and allies for your own failures..it's foolish like gora children in the west Blaming their parents and families when they aren't what they expect to be despite their own personal bad decisions
Trusting on others more than oneself empowers us? Britishers ruled over us by taking advantage of our internal conflicts, we invited outsiders to take sides in our internal quarrels.

There are no true friends/allies, and there is nothing wrong in bringing out the historical perspectives to make the records straight. Russia isn't a saint, US is not an evil, we are not helpless/weak despite all our limitations.

The world is no longer bipolar, India no longer wants to walk under the shadows of any big power, India wants to become a big power on her own, and none of the established powers including Russia want this to happen.
 

AnantS

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Soviet did not shed blood for India. India had shed a lot of blood for independence of Bangladesh. So comparison between India and Bangladesh is invalid argument.

Soviet did threaten to intervene in 1971 and India also supported soviet in late 70's-early 80's when Indira planned to invade Diego Garcia under Indira Gandhi. If soviets provided help, India helped Soviets in Afghanistan and also in world forums, by rallying support for them. NAM for all purpose in late had become literally Soviet echo chamber.

Right now Russia has signaled its intent in moving away, its quite natural for India to look other partners. India remembers fondly Indo-Soviet relationship, in which both parties got something. However, Its silly and idiotic to expect India to toe some of idiotic(from Indian POV) current russian geopolitical maneuvers. Just as Russia is free to engage and arm India's enemies. Similarly, India is free to pursue business relations with any other country. No India should feel apologetic about it.
 

India22

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:blah::blah::blah:

we defeated & divided Pakistan which was an american & British ally and which Got support of 57 Muslim countries & even Lanka .

and You are calling it Faulty planing ? ? :bplease:
The war was not really that hard as many imagine. Once Cooperation Pact with USSR was signed and India decided to launch war in winter, already engaged US in Vietnam and China afraid of USSR, almost 100% population support in East Pakistan, Indian conventional superiority doomed Pakistan.

But my point was, we could not fully exploit the situation. India should have attacked PoK in 1971 with at least 5 Mountain division. Instead we adopted a defensive posture.
 

AnantS

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But my point was, we could not fully exploit the situation. India should have attacked PoK in 1971 with at least 5 Mountain division. Instead we adopted a defensive posture.
We did not pursue POK because Soviet did not want India to attack West Pakistan. Becase Soviet feared that full attack and capture of parts of west pakistan, would have definitely lead to american & russian conflict
 

India22

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We did not pursue POK because Soviet did not want India to attack West Pakistan. Becase Soviet feared that full attack and capture of parts of west pakistan, would have definitely lead to american & russian conflict
That is another wrong statement. Soviets or Americans would only mind if Indians threatened in Sindh or Punjab. Kashmir was disputed territory and if Indian troops mounted offensive there apart from calling to free Kashmir from Pakistan and India has no wish to capture Pakistan, both US and USSR would be convinced that India did not want to annex Pakistan. Nevertheless Indian advance in West was significant. We conquered the bulge type area between Punjab and Jammu and Kashmir.
 

AbRaj

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it seems (russia , china , iran , pakistan , turkey ) & USA want to fight their proxy wars in Afghanistan & central Asia .


Good for them. They got a warm barren land away from homeland to level scores. Good for China too as an arms supplier
Disaster for already wartorn Afghanistan. And bad for South Asia
 

AnantS

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That is another wrong statement. Soviets or Americans would only mind if Indians threatened in Sindh or Punjab. Kashmir was disputed territory and if Indian troops mounted offensive there apart from calling to free Kashmir from Pakistan and India has no wish to capture Pakistan, both US and USSR would be convinced that India did not want to annex Pakistan. Nevertheless Indian advance in West was significant. We conquered the bulge type area between Punjab and Jammu and Kashmir.
Whats wrong statement?That America would have attacked India, if India attacked and occupied POK in 1971? USS Enterprise was already in India's backyard at that point of time. And had Paki delayed surrender to India. American would have intervened on Pakistan's behalf. The possibility was very much real.
 

Bornubus

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Territories in POK were captured by India in 1971

Turtok captured by Ladakh scouts

Strategic heights around kargil town

Few paki posts across the loc such as Nangi Tekri by Punjab regt


However, Army's plan to capture Daruchian was failed with heavy casualties on our side.


Whats wrong statement?That America would have attacked India, if India attacked and occupied POK in 1971? USS Enterprise was already in India's backyard at that point of time. And had Paki delayed surrender to India. American would have intervened on Pakistan's behalf. The possibility was very much real.
 

AnantS

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Territories in POK were captured by India in 1971

Turtok captured by Ladakh scouts

Strategic heights around kargil town

Few paki posts across the loc such as Nangi Tekri by Punjab regt


However, Army's plan to capture Daruchian was failed with heavy casualties on our side.
sure bornubus, but we did not do deep penetrative strikes or make efforts to capture gilgit, skardu areas. Army wanted to capture terroritories in the deep, Indira agreed initially then dithered after Russia's no go signal
 

SANITY

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Whats wrong statement?That America would have attacked India, if India attacked and occupied POK in 1971? USS Enterprise was already in India's backyard at that point of time. And had Paki delayed surrender to India. American would have intervened on Pakistan's behalf. The possibility was very much real.
Is it certain that they would have attacked? What were they going to gain by that?
 

DingDong

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Territories in POK were captured by India in 1971

Turtok captured by Ladakh scouts

Strategic heights around kargil town

Few paki posts across the loc such as Nangi Tekri by Punjab regt


However, Army's plan to capture Daruchian was failed with heavy casualties on our side.
I had read somewhere (a very reliable source) that USSR had warned India against prolonging the war on the western front. USSR warned that such action would lead to USSR withdrawing it's support to India. USSR alongside the US put pressure on India for early release of the 90,000 war prisoners so that India could not use them as bargaining chip during negotiation.

Independence of Bangladesh would have created an opportunity for the USSR to gain a base in the Bay of Bengal, read the history of BAKSAL. However it could not be realized due to assassination of Mujib and maneuvering by India.

India had her sweet revenge from USSR for it's dubious role in 1971, when she refused to open another front to put pressure on Pakistan during Soviet-Afghan war.
 

India22

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Whats wrong statement?That America would have attacked India, if India attacked and occupied POK in 1971? USS Enterprise was already in India's backyard at that point of time. And had Paki delayed surrender to India. American would have intervened on Pakistan's behalf. The possibility was very much real.
Nah, gaining land simultaneously in PoK would not have made any difference. US was more interested in seeing Pakistan united, they were not particularly concerned about whether Occupied Kashmir remained in Pakistan or not.
 

square

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Cuba is this independent and politically strong state. In a difference from all Europe, and in general the world halves that мринимают that or another decision only with permission the owner is the USA. Cuba did not afraid to live under approvals more than half a century. And won. Exactly the USA offered to a collaboration Cuba. A little country successfully resisted to the enormous state.
If Cuba will decide to open the Russian military base that will be so
so , only those countries condider strong who will either allow a Russia or a US base on their soil......
i couldn't get it......

what cuba is getting out of this.....32b$ rightoff...but this this debt was also created in the same procces.....
 

India22

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India had her sweet revenge from USSR for it's dubious role in 1971, when she refused to open another front to put pressure on Pakistan during Soviet-Afghan war.
Or may be we did not. If we attacked Pakistan in 1980s perhaps we could have taken PoK. India had 860,000 soldiers in 1971. 7 Divisions were deployed against East Pakistan. If 4 Mountain Divisions along with other divisions we attacked PoK from beginning, we could have captured a lot of PoK territory.
 

Bornubus

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I had read somewhere (a very reliable source) that USSR had warned India against prolonging the war on the western front. USSR warned that such action would lead to USSR withdrawing it's support to India. USSR alongside the US put pressure on India for early release of the 90,000 war prisoners so that India could not use them as bargaining chip during negotiation.

Independence of Bangladesh would have created an opportunity for the USSR to gain a base in the Bay of Bengal, read the history of BAKSAL. However it could not be realized due to assassination of Mujib and maneuvering by India.

India had her sweet revenge from USSR for it's dubious role in 1971, when she refused to open another front to put pressure on Pakistan during Soviet-Afghan war.

Actually they provided weapons to pakis before 1971 according to Sipri. Somewhere i read that Shastrji was died due to poisoning by KGB and later the personal Doctor of Shastrji was died in mysterious circumstances.

Russians even denied us critical technology like Gun barrels of T 90 tanks and BM 30 Smerch even though we had paid for it.

I personally don't trust Ruskies especially under Putin.
 

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