Russia Seeks to Reopen Military Bases in Vietnam and Cuba

[airtel]

Everything I said is correct, but feel free to disagree.


Yes, but for them, goodwill of India was always more important than ideology.


If they did, India would have become an ally of the USSR long before the 1971/21 War. Our policies and decision were our and our only.

lies Lies & lies .
Nehru was inspired by communism & socialism & his policies were inspired by soviets .

Sure.


Yes, I am aware of that.

Good .

It does not matter whether the messenger is a Communist or a Capitalist. The only thing that matters is whether the messenger is speaking the truth.

as long as he is speaking the half truth , he is irrelevant .

The very first Sukhoi-27 that the Russian Federation delivered to PRC was in 2013.
The very first S-300 that the Russian Federation delivered to PRC was in 2002.

N.B.: Sukhoi-30MKK is a variant of Sukhoi-27.

The USSR collapsed in 1991.

So, please let me know where the propaganda lies.

The very first Sukhoi-27 that the Russian Federation delivered to PRC was in = 1992

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-11.htm

after that Russia sold Sukhoi 30 MKK to china & sukhoi 30 Mki to India ..............and made money from both of us .


all these things happened decades before Ukraine crisis & western sanctions .

 

[Indx TechStyle]

If you read that from a book, I recommend you throw that book as far as you can - the further the better. The US debt is $20 trillion. No other country has that high a debt. How on earth does PRC have $28 trillion debt?

PRC is a net creditor nation. The Russian Federation is also a net creditor nation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_..._international_investment_position_per_capita
_____

It is kept a secret (not so much of a secret now), but it is nonetheless meant to be low key.

I got from here.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...gdp-and-could-be-fatal-says-government-expert

 

[pmaitra]

lies Lies & lies .

Very childish.

Nehru was inspired by communism & socialism & his policies were inspired by soviets .

Yes, and not only Nehru, but many Indian Freedom Fighters. So what?

as long as he is speaking the half truth , he is irrelevant .

He is speaking the truth. Moreover, I have provided references to back my claims up. You have provided none.

The very first Sukhoi-27 that the Russian Federation delivered to PRC was in = 1992

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-11.htm

after that Russia sold Sukhoi 30 MKK to china & sukhoi 30 Mki to India ..............and made money from both of us .

Thanks. I stand corrected. In any event, it was not sold by the USSR.

all these things happened decades before Ukraine crisis & western sanctions .

Lot of things happened before the Ukraine crisis. Yeltsin sucked up to the US and denied the cryogenic engine to ISRO. Again, it is all after the fall of the USSR.

 

[pmaitra]

I got from here.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...gdp-and-could-be-fatal-says-government-expert

It is wrong. PRC cannot have any debt if it is a net creditor nation, as per IMF estimates (see my link).

It is from the Guardian, so no surprises.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Not for you to judge the strength of the Russian economy!
Do not forget that Russia has experienced several severe shocks, which would not survive in another country!!!
1. 1 the revolution of 1905.
2. The war with Japan.
3. 1 world war that ran from 1914 to 1918.
4. The revolution of 1917 when the country almost fell apart and she was nearly divided between England, USA, Romania, Germany, taking advantage of the fact that Russia is waging war for 3 years.
5. 2 world war in which the USSR won the Wehrmacht, consisting of the whole of Europe (Romania, Italy, Hungary, Germany, Finland, etc.)
6. The war with Finland.
7. The war with the Taliban in Afghanistan
8. The collapse of the Soviet Union. Try to further collapse of Russia.
9. The war in Chechnya for 8 years.
9. Support our group in Syria.
All this treboval huge resources, willpower and most importantly - believing in yourself and your people. I still don't think smaller military conflicts. For example participation in the war in Spain, participation in the war in Vietnam, North Korea. A weak country would have been destroyed.
But about the victories and achievements of India nothing is known. What major wars has won India ???
As eating bananas in the 19th century, when little England rules the whole of India, and now.
The Soviet Union has always been a friend of India and always helped.
Okay, I will not continue, and many Hindus will be offended.
This topic is about the Russian base in Cuba, we digress

From being a nuclear power even after P5 pressure from emerging as one of world's major economies, completed nuclear triads with ICMs, one of largest Navies, armies and Air Force, filing around 50,000 patents alone in 2016, preparing an particle observatory four times bigger than CERN and to list up a lot.

India isn't included in so many events because it got freedom way later.
Though, it did a lot in such a short time frame to change into a potential great power from a failed bankrupt nation. And as India is becoming more assertive now a days, we will see a lot in upcoming decades.

And Russia/Soviet Union indeed has done great in cold war when it used to be very strong economy. Today, it's a fraction of what it used to be. If Soviet Union existed today, it would be as strong as Russia & China combined.

 

[airtel]

Very childish.

Yes, and not only Nehru, by many Indian Freedom Fighters. So what?


He is speaking the truth. Moreover, I have provided references to back my claims up. You have provided none.

you will not accept the truth because of Your ego .

Thanks. I stand corrected. In any event, it was not sold by the USSR.

.

awww if sukhoi was delivered in 1992 , then calculate the year in which deal was signed .

 

[pmaitra]

PRC received a lot of technical and industrial help from the USSR.

However, the Sino-Soviet Split was a blessing in disguise. It helped PRC stand up on its own feet and become self reliant. Similarly, the sanctions imposed on India after Pokhran II helped India achieve indigenization, which otherwise would not have happened.

Bottom line is very simple: If we have a crutch (like the Soviet Union spoon-feeding India), India will never be able to be self reliant.

When it comes to defence, India has a long way to go.

 

[pmaitra]

you will not accept the truth because of Your ego .

I won't accept unsupported claims as the "truth."

awww if sukhoi was delivered in 1992 , then calculate the year in which deal was signed .

My calculations say that the deal was signed in 1992, unless you have any evidence to the contrary.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

And Yes, of course. Tell me again how destroyed our economy. You know much more than me about Russia.
Russia was, is and will be a great power. Neither the US nor Europe were able to destroy my country, no matter how trying.

We never said west can destroy Russia.
Unlike economy, Russian power is measured in Megatonnes of TNT!:biggrin2:

I do not understand how you have such a hatred of Russia.

Nobody hates Russia.

After the revolution of 1917 in Russia, Soviet leaders urged India to freedom and independence. Many Indian freedom fighters, inspired by the Bolshevik revolution established personal contacts with Soviet leaders

Indian Independence movement had started from mid 19th century, way before Russian Revolution but failed.
Since then, Indian freedom fighters seeked support off Kabul to Tokyo, even from Nazi Germany.

Since the 1950s, India received from the Soviet Union generous assistance for the implementation of industrialization and development in the field of defence, space research and atomic energy. Experiencing shortages of capital, foreign exchange and technology, India appreciated get support: cheap loans for infrastructure projects, which can be returned in rupees; reliable, quality and affordable military equipment, also on credit; materials – oil, petroleum products, fertilizers, metals, mostly through barter.
Some state-owned Indian company, competitive on the world market such as BHEL, Oil and Natural Gas Corporation (ONGC) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), as well as the entire steel industry of India, was established in cooperation with the Soviet Union. The first Indian Institute in Mumbai was founded with the support of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was a true partner and in many ways helped India to become more self-sufficient.
Today about 50% of the military equipment of India's armed forces is of Russian origin.
Also, in recent years, Russia has participated in the formation of the first group of Indian research satellites. The first launch of IRS series of satellites was carried out with the help of the carrier rocket "Vostok". In addition, Russia has offered the Indian air force to buy modern MiG-29 fighters. Byle signed a contract to supply India for 40 Russian su-30MKI. Also signed contracts to supply approximately 10,000 guided missiles "Invar", T-90 tanks and over 200 supersonic anti-ship missiles, air-launched "BrahMos". Russia remains the largest supplier of military equipment to India.
Russia and India
If to speak about nuclear power, has already built two nuclear power plant units at Kudankulam in southern India under the Indian-Russian program of cooperation in the field of nuclear energy. Talks are underway to build two more units. In the field of space is successfully continuing cooperation between Russia and India on the GLONASS program. In addition, India is trying to get Russian technology in tracking satellites and to engage Russia in the project for the study of the moon "Chandrayaan-2".
What would be India without the support of the Soviet Union?
So remember who you're talking about the future. Without Russia you would live in the past and best selling bananas and Souvenirs from cow shit

Agreed on rest, Russia indeed helped a lot to ignite India's booms.
We are saying something else and you are taking it offensively.

The economy assists to pour money into defence and research to have a strong military and capable industrial complex.

Without economy, it gets faded. Sure, Russia may have enough technology and it won't go enough weak as countries like UK have gone but Russia today won't be needing China if it was today what it used to be.

No offense intended or nothing personal at you. You are free to argue and contradict me but I'm not Russia hater.
Hope you understand.

 

[airtel]

My calculations say that the deal was signed in 1992, unless you have any evidence to the contrary.

. .




http://et97.com/view/15163474.htm

 

[pmaitra]

. .




http://et97.com/view/15163474.htm

I had a hard time understanding as the source is not in English.

From what I could make out, the deal was signed in 1991.

 

[India22]

Russia can no longer be a superpower. Their economy is suffering. Population growth is not so much. The world is no longer 2 Super power based. Cuba no longer wants to be engaged against USA. Vietnam is facing threat from China.

In this case, we should also not forget that Russia now is Capitalist country. To counter USA, Russia must emerge as an alternate Capitalist power. Russia must have enough companies those are able to invest in other countries on large scale. Russia's foreign policy must be independent. They as a start instead of supporting China should be neutral. They are not capable of this.

 

[airtel]

I had a hard time understanding as the source is not in English.

From what I could make out, the deal was signed in 1991.

source is in English ...........ok let me do a copy paste >>

906 project
As the first export of Chinese Su 27, Su 27 buy in the specification with the Soviet Union occupied the same model at the same time, the contract amount of 70% paid in barter. Because in June 1990 around the time of both sides on the introduction of a Soviet 27 officially launched talks, China inside this project called 906 project".
906 project
906 project Definition
As the first export of Chinese Su 27, Su 27 buy in the specification with the Soviet Union occupied the same model at the same time, the contract amount of 70% paid in barter. Because in June 1990 around the time of both sides on the introduction of a Soviet 27 officially launched talks, China inside this project called 906 project". After the signing of the agreement, the Soviet Union sent to Chinese Su 27 in February 1991, a wonderful exhibition at the BeiJing NanYuan Airport, with its first-class design and super maneuverability, deeply shocked the presence of air force generals.
906 project Achievements
In May 1991, China the official background of "aviation knowledge" magazine published a picture of the Soviet Union in 27 The five-star red flag The picture on the cover. At this time, the western world was in the dark, just think this is just a flight of exchange activities. In December 26, 1991, the Soviet Union, the red Empire huge crashing collapse. After independence, Russia inherited most of the political legacy of the Soviet Union, Russian President Yeltsin also promised to continue to fulfill the obligation to sell 27 Su Chinese. In June 27, 1992, the first batch of 12 Soviet 27 fighter jets, including 8 SK and 4 UBK two seater single seat coach, took off from Russia Baikal military Jeddah airport, through the airspace of Mongolia, on the same day at 10:15 in the morning arrived safe Chinese air base in Wuhu, Anhui. In November 25, 1992, 12 Su 27SK single seater aircraft remaining by the city of Komsomolsk on Amur aviation production company to Wuhu air base airport. So far, Su 27 officially joined the people's Liberation Army Air Force equipment series, a total of 24 aircraft (20 Su 27SK 4 Su 27UBK).
906 project Significance
The introduction of the 27 air force Chinese Soviet fighter called a milepost Chinese air force development. Su 27 at the time of the introduction of the former Soviet Union in the disintegration of the aircraft before the performance of the most advanced Before the introduction, Su -27, China air force Its loopholes appeared one after another. after, cannot withstand a single blow, with hundreds of Su -27 and Su -30 fighter, Chinese began to have a truly modern air force (here refers to the third generation fighter consists of modern combat forces) .

 

[IndianHawk]

As far being a global force, again the amount of money spent on defence does not indicate how big of a global force one can be. The USA has a defence budget more than the next seven countries combined, yet the Russian Forces were several times more effective than the much larger US forces in fighting ISIS.

You're making wrong conclusions sir.
US is playing double game in Syria hence it has been naturally ineffective to destroyed the Isis.

If US and Russia both would pursue the same goal with single minded resolution USA would be much more effective.

If it was actually US goal to destroy Isis they are more accurate and destructive than Russians could ever be.

 

[pmaitra]

source is in English ...........ok let me do a copy paste >>

906 project
As the first export of Chinese Su 27, Su 27 buy in the specification with the Soviet Union occupied the same model at the same time, the contract amount of 70% paid in barter. Because in June 1990 around the time of both sides on the introduction of a Soviet 27 officially launched talks, China inside this project called 906 project".
906 project
906 project Definition
As the first export of Chinese Su 27, Su 27 buy in the specification with the Soviet Union occupied the same model at the same time, the contract amount of 70% paid in barter. Because in June 1990 around the time of both sides on the introduction of a Soviet 27 officially launched talks, China inside this project called 906 project". After the signing of the agreement, the Soviet Union sent to Chinese Su 27 in February 1991, a wonderful exhibition at the BeiJing NanYuan Airport, with its first-class design and super maneuverability, deeply shocked the presence of air force generals.
906 project Achievements
In May 1991, China the official background of "aviation knowledge" magazine published a picture of the Soviet Union in 27 The five-star red flag The picture on the cover. At this time, the western world was in the dark, just think this is just a flight of exchange activities. In December 26, 1991, the Soviet Union, the red Empire huge crashing collapse. After independence, Russia inherited most of the political legacy of the Soviet Union, Russian President Yeltsin also promised to continue to fulfill the obligation to sell 27 Su Chinese. In June 27, 1992, the first batch of 12 Soviet 27 fighter jets, including 8 SK and 4 UBK two seater single seat coach, took off from Russia Baikal military Jeddah airport, through the airspace of Mongolia, on the same day at 10:15 in the morning arrived safe Chinese air base in Wuhu, Anhui. In November 25, 1992, 12 Su 27SK single seater aircraft remaining by the city of Komsomolsk on Amur aviation production company to Wuhu air base airport. So far, Su 27 officially joined the people's Liberation Army Air Force equipment series, a total of 24 aircraft (20 Su 27SK 4 Su 27UBK).
906 project Significance
The introduction of the 27 air force Chinese Soviet fighter called a milepost Chinese air force development. Su 27 at the time of the introduction of the former Soviet Union in the disintegration of the aircraft before the performance of the most advanced Before the introduction, Su -27, China air force Its loopholes appeared one after another. after, cannot withstand a single blow, with hundreds of Su -27 and Su -30 fighter, Chinese began to have a truly modern air force (here refers to the third generation fighter consists of modern combat forces) .

No, that is not English. Don't just do copy paste. Read it. Moreover, what is Soviet 27?

Looks like some strange language website translated using a translator.

 

[pmaitra]

You're making wrong conclusions sir.
US is playing double game in Syria hence it has been naturally ineffective to destroyed the Isis.

If US and Russia both would pursue the same goal with single minded resolution USA would be much more effective.

If it was actually US goal to destroy Isis they are more accurate and destructive than Russians could ever be.

Yes, that is most likely it. It is more to do with desire than with capability. I agree that if the US' goal was to destroy ISIS, they would have done it long time back.

 

[AnantS]

Russia is going no where. Russia is a agile power, but does not carry same weight as of USSR. However, after trump, I strongly see US minimizing support to Ukraine and US ending sanctions on Russia. So things will be bright for Russia. However I do see Trump being forced to follow Clinton footsteps, as Russia China do their maneuvers.

In all this new geo political moves, I see one victim in long run: Indian- Russian strategic friendship. And in the new tug of war, both Russia and India will be playing second fiddle to China and US respectively. In a very weird way G2 is being realized.

 

[IndianHawk]

I do not understand how you have such a hatred of Russia.

I have no hatred for Russia nor have any love lost for it.

As for rest of your post . It's childish nationalistic rhetoric and not worthy of a logical response. Nations don't play stupid games of relationship or friendship.
They just make deals according to times economics and geography.

Long term engagement into such deals can sometimes be described as 'help' or 'friendship ' but these are hollow terms.

USSR and USA both helped India in the past . USA also helped Russia in the past .
It all was geopolitics one kind or another.
No need to put personal feelings into these things.

 

[pmaitra]

Russia is going no where. Russia is a agile power, but does not carry same weight as of USSR. However, after trump, I strongly see US minimizing support to Ukraine and US ending sanctions on Russia. So things will be bright for Russia. However I do see Trump being forced to follow Clinton footsteps, as Russia China do their maneuvers.

In all this new geo political moves, I see one victim in long run: Indian- Russian strategic friendship. And in the new tug of war, both Russia and India will be playing second fiddle to China and US respectively. In a very weird way G2 is being realized.

The US MIC is very powerful and very influential. If Trump tries to rock the boat too much, a very unfortunate thing can happen (don't ask, won't speculate).

 

[DingDong]

In the 50s to 90s Russia gave India many things that preserved indians sovereignty. from food aid to industrial technology to sensitive and important military technology (selling India mig21s on easy loans..even taking rice and fruit against the debt; "leasing" India nuclear submarines) to support in actuality opposing American and british nuclear task forces during the 71 war. (Risking not just some Russian lives but all of Russian civilization to help defend the indian motherland)

We do not need to get on our hands and knees for Russia but any decent people should appreciate their true friends who stuck by their side in their darkest moments.

If Russia is going through tough times and India is going through a bright phase then it's our collective dharma to support our friends even if it's not popular and profitable not jump to be friends with the manipulative, rich and popular nations cause they dangle some carrots in front of us.

USSR has supplied weapons to both India and China.

Had the US and USSR not come together to force a ceasefire in 1965 war, we would have won decisively and taken control over strategically important areas.

After the Indian victory in 1971 it was the USSR which put pressure on India alongside the US to release those war prisoners, hence despite the fact that we spilled our blood and won a war we could not make any territorial gains or punish the war criminals.

You can see a pattern here, both US and USSR wanted the disputes to linger.

After the fall of the USSR, India-Russian relation has generally been friendly but if Russians expecting us to shower him/her with praises and gratitude, then that is never going to happen at least from my end. USSR did all that because USSR required a strong ally in the IOR. All those loans and grants had a purpose, this was not charity.

Those Praises and Gratitude must be reserved for our own Heroes.

Back on topic, I don't see any reason for a stable country offering military base to a foreign power when such move can potentially destabilize the region.

Vietnam gains nothing, Russia is already on China's side.
Cuba gains nothing from unnecessarily poking the US in it's eye.