Russia Seeks to Reopen Military Bases in Vietnam and Cuba

[pmaitra]

Those contracts you talk about keep the factories in Russia running, and keep your people employed. More Russians live and work in India than Indians in Russia.

Russian government and industries earn billions of USD each year from those sales.

Without Russia, we would have bought those machines and technologies from others. Russia sold them for money.

Don't worry about us, we are going to emerge as one of the top three economies by the middle of this century, while Russian economy doesn't seem to be doing so well.

Don't expect us to show any gratitude, we owe you nothing. This Russian arrogance is only going to make you loose friends and sympathizers.

I notice you have been unnecessarily provoking Alexei.

I do not think it is arrogance on part of Russia. It is us Indians who chose to form a quasi alliance with USA, Russia's arch foe, and when Russia made overtures towards Pakistan, we started to whine like a petulant child. Russia is a self-sufficient self-reliant country. India is, by a long shot, not.

I do not wish to be an ingrate, so I will show gratitude where due.

As a matter of fact, in the 1950s, India was facing a famine. India asked the US for help. The US refused. Then India asked for foorgrain on loan. The US again dragged its feet. That was when Nikita Khruschyov gave India foodgrain as aid for free.

We received a lot of military technology from the USSR. Without USSR, we would not have gotten half of what we got.

The metallurgy required for our space launch vehicles was for decades available exclusively from the Bhilai Steel Plant, which was set up with assistance from the Soviet Union.

Yes, the Russian Federation earns money from weapons sales. The Russian Federation is a capitalist country. Gone are the good old days of Soviet Communism, when things were given out for goodwill.

We Indians should first stand on our own feet, before we start pontificating at others.

And we don't expect anything from you.
Russia has always relied only on themselves.
You live a lot of Russian for the same reason a lot of them live in other third world countries - you have heat, cheap is the sea.
And in Russia, a weak Indian organisms will not survive and they will become extinct.
In my city there are medical Academy where he studied a lot of Indians. In the winter it was pathetic - small, frozen, twisted... That's why they are not in Russia.
When will be the third economy in the world, then you will brag about.

Indian troops are stationed in Siachen since the 1980s. I live in the US. I was on top of the Rockies in Utah in December 2006. I enjoy shoveling snow every winter - before going to bed and in the morning. I have relatives in Russia, two in Moscow and one in Tver. Some of us can very well survive in the harsh.

 

[airtel]

I do not understand how you have such a hatred of Russia.

Russia is selling weapons to china & India Both , You are selling sukhoi 27 , 30 ,35 to china ...............and sukhoi 30 , FGFA to India .............s-400 to both of us .

now who is Getting benefit of Fight between India-china = Russia .

now in any Geopolitical Scenario , Russia is choosing China (because china has more money as compare to India ) .

example .............Russia is ready to support Taliban , Russia is ready to Join CPEC .
(You are free to do whatever you want to )

^ but these things are against National interest of India .

to please China You can stop providing components & parts of Aircraft anytime (in the future ).........................that means India will not be able to defend itself from any Chinese aggression .

these things are creating insecurity among some of the Indians .

 

[airtel]

I notice you have been unnecessarily provoking Alexei.

yes he should be more polite .

Yes, the Russian Federation earns money from weapons sales. The Russian Federation is a capitalist country. Gone are the good old days of Soviet Communism , when things were given out for goodwill.

. I live in the US.

there is nothing like Goodwill ..............Humans by nature are selfish ....India is Giving Aid to Afghanistan , Vietnam , Mongolia because of goodwill. ??

China is Investing in Pakistan/Nepal/Lanka/bangladesh because of Goodwill ??

Russia is Helping Assad govt. because of goodwill ??


soviets supported India because it was beneficial for them :biggrin2::biggrin2: at that time China was their Enemy , Pakistan was member of Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) & Central Treaty Organization (CENTO) so soviets supported India & Indians rejected capitalism until India became bankrupt in 1991 , same year when soviet Union was destroyed .

by the way USA also created software industry in India ................millions of Indian families are getting food because of USA .

Again ............. it is not goodwill , it is beneficial for American companies :biggrin2::biggrin2:

I do not think it is arrogance on part of Russia. It is us Indians who chose to form a quasi alliance with USA, Russia's arch foe, and when Russia made overtures towards Pakistan, we started to whine like a petulant child. Russia is a self-sufficient self-reliant country. India is, by a long shot, not.

only after Russians chose to form a quasi alliance with china .

there was no other option for India .

 

[I am otm shank]

Those contracts you talk about keep the factories in Russia running, and keep your people employed. More Russians live and work in India than Indians in Russia.

Russian government and industries earn billions of USD each year from those sales.

Without Russia, we would have bought those machines and technologies from others. Russia sold them for money.

Don't worry about us, we are going to emerge as one of the top three economies by the middle of this century, while Russian economy doesn't seem to be doing so well.

Don't expect us to show any gratitude, we owe you nothing. This Russian arrogance is only going to make you loose friends and sympathizers.

In the 50s to 90s Russia gave India many things that preserved indians sovereignty. from food aid to industrial technology to sensitive and important military technology (selling India mig21s on easy loans..even taking rice and fruit against the debt; "leasing" India nuclear submarines) to support in actuality opposing American and british nuclear task forces during the 71 war. (Risking not just some Russian lives but all of Russian civilization to help defend the indian motherland)

We do not need to get on our hands and knees for Russia but any decent people should appreciate their true friends who stuck by their side in their darkest moments.

If Russia is going through tough times and India is going through a bright phase then it's our collective dharma to support our friends even if it's not popular and profitable not jump to be friends with the manipulative, rich and popular nations cause they dangle some carrots in front of us.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Learn to respect other and absorb criticism, Grow a thicker skin ..

You can debate without getting dirty, Report post you like mods will act ..

Just this idiot provokes me. He is a provocateur who sows hatred

 

[pmaitra]

yes he should be more polite .

It is a carry over from another thread, where they are fighting.

there is nothing like Goodwill ..............Humans by nature are selfish ....India is Giving Aid to Afghanistan , Vietnam , Mongolia because of goodwill. ??

China is Investing in Pakistan/Nepal/Lanka/bangladesh because of Goodwill ??

Of course, aid is given for something in return.

The Russian Federation wants money in exchange for weapons it sells to any country.
The USSR wanted goodwill in exchange for whatever help it provided to India.

The USSR did not need anything from India other than goodwill.

Russia is Helping Assad govt. because of goodwill ??

Russia is a strawman. My comment was not about Russia. My comment was about the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR).

soviets supported India because it was beneficial for them :biggrin2::biggrin2: at that time China was their Enemy , Pakistan was member of Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) & Central Treaty Organization (CENTO) so soviets supported India & Indians rejected capitalism until India became bankrupt in 1991 , same year when soviet Union was destroyed .

PRC became the enemy of the USSR culminating in a border war in 1968 near Khabarovsk (Sino-Soviet Split). The food-grain aid I was talking about was long before that (1951-52), at a time when USSR and PRC were friends.

BTW, at that time, when India was facing drought, two countries helped India will food-grain. One was the USSR, and the other was the PRC (1951-52).

Yes, coming to SEATO, well, it was created in 1954, but after that, it was of mutual political interest. In any event, India still remained non-aligned until just before the 1971/72 War.

Indians rejected capitalism until India became bankrupt in 1991 , same year when soviet Union was destroyed .

• India never became bankrupt.
• The USSR never became bankrupt.
• Capitalism was introduced in the Russian Federation in 1991, the year of the Soviet collapse, and the Russian Federation became bankrupt in the year 1998.

by the way USA also created software industry in India ................millions of Indian families are getting food because of USA .

Again ............. it is not goodwill , it is beneficial for American companies :biggrin2::biggrin2:

The USA treated India the same way the Russian Federation is treating India. The USSR treated India differently and much better. They needed nothing from India other than goodwill.

We Indians got used to being mollycoddled by the Soviet Union, and now that the Russian Federation is treating us the same way the USA has been treating us all along, we are beginning to throw temper tantrums against the Russian Federation.

only after Russians chose to form a quasi alliance with china .

there was no other option for India .

India turned its back on Russia long time back. It was only in the wake of the Ukraine crisis, after western sanctions, that the Russian Federation was forced to turn to PRC.

 

[AnantS]

I notice you have been unnecessarily provoking Alexei.

I do not think it is arrogance on part of Russia. It is us Indians who chose to form a quasi alliance with USA, Russia's arch foe, and when Russia made overtures towards Pakistan, we started to whine like a petulant child. Russia is a self-sufficient self-reliant country. India is, by a long shot, not.

@pmaitra, you should not go into "paavam" mode. It was Russia who first ditched India after collapse of USSR. Yeltsin had some underlying antipathy towards India and royally ignored India. Russia had also almost immediately started courting, arming China(an enemy no 1 in Indian defence circles) after ussr exploded. Actually that period was sort of golden year for Plackistan as India sort of stood alone. Indian strategic alliance initiatives with US, came much much after pokhran. We can say stepping stone was laid with clinton visit, a foundation was laid with 123 deal. unlike Russia who is almost licking chinese ass, India is still unsure and wary about forming similar alliance with US.

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra, you should not go into "paavam" mode. It was Russia who first ditched India after collapse of USSR. Yeltsin had some underlying antipathy towards India and royally ignored India. Russia had also almost immediately started courting, arming China(an enemy no 1 in Indian defence circles) after ussr exploded. Actually that period was sort of golden year for Plackistan as India sort of stood alone. Indian strategic alliance initiatives with US, came much much after pokhran. We can say stepping stone was laid with clinton visit, a foundation was laid with 123 deal. unlike Russia who is almost licking chinese ass, India is still unsure and wary about forming similar alliance with US.

Dear Sir,

Kindly come out of your "paavam" mode (whatever that means) and read my post again. With some luck, you will understand the difference between the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the Russian Federation. It is pretty obvious in my post.

Yes, you are correct, Yeltsin sucked up to the United States. I am not defending Yeltsin, so that is a strawman.

 

[AnantS]

And we don't expect anything from you.
Russia has always relied only on themselves.
You live a lot of Russian for the same reason a lot of them live in other third world countries - you have heat, cheap is the sea.
And in Russia, a weak Indian organisms will not survive and they will become extinct.
In my city there are medical Academy where he studied a lot of Indians. In the winter it was pathetic - small, frozen, twisted... That's why they are not in Russia.
When will be the third economy in the world, then you will brag about.

Alexei, lot of your country live here in India, infact more than Indians living russia, its russians who live in India for smoke, heat and warm waters.
Coming to cold, Indian Army is stationed at Siachen where temp dips easily to -50 C and height of 5,400 m. Our upper northern people are accustomed to chilling cold and thin air at extreme altitude and rest of Indians fastly accimtalize to such environment, as mass deployment of Indian Army in such region shows. And many Indians are permanently stationed at multiple stations in antartica. To give you example. Indians use to choose to go to russia for two reasons
a) Medical degree-however that has become unattractive option, since Indian MCI, no longer recognizes Medical degree from Russia, among many other countries.
b)Soviet aficionados/Indian commies who think Russia as a mecca

By the way, Indians don't contract in cold, just as russians don't evaporate in tropical and temparate heat

 

[airtel]

Of course, aid is given for something in return.

The Russian Federation wants money in exchange for weapons it sells to any country.
The USSR wanted goodwill in exchange for whatever help it provided to India.

The USSR did not need anything from India other than goodwill.

no ...........soviets wanted to spread their Ideology = communism .

they controlled our policies & decisions .

just Like USA spread capitalism/globalization and is controlling policies of Governments around the world .

PRC became the enemy of the USSR culminating in a border war in 1968 near Khabarovsk (Sino-Soviet Split). The food-grain aid I was talking about was long before that (1951-52), at a time when USSR and PRC were friends.

since hundreds of years china & Russia are enemies .............Read their History .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sino-Russian_relations

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Russian_border_conflicts



their "friendship" is temporary , after fighting with USA /NATO .......they will again start their wars .

BTW, at that time, when India was facing drought, two countries helped India will food-grain. One was the USSR, and the other was the PRC (1951-52).

at-least read Your own sources (although it is written by a biased commie ) ,

it was USA , who is responsible for green revolution in India during 1960s ...........which ultimately solved our food problems ........
^^ this Help is much better than any Aid .

India also got more Aid from USA as compare to soviets >>

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...conomic-aid/articleshow/48093123.cms?from=mdr

Yes, coming to SEATO, well, it was created in 1954, but after that, it was of mutual political interest. In any event, India still remained non-aligned until just before the 1971/72 War.

USA also Helped in 1962 China-India war ................there was also an American Base in India during 1960s .

India turned its back on Russia long time back. It was only in the wake of the Ukraine crisis, after western sanctions, that the Russian Federation was forced to turn to PRC.

this is called High Level propaganda ............Russian sold Sukhoi 27 , sukhoi 30 , s-300 etc to china decades before Ukraine crisis & western sanctions .

they were selling weapons to Both India & china and making money out of fear & conflicts .

Russia Helped china in creating such a big military-industrial complex ..................which is now used against Indians .

 

[pmaitra]

To give you example. Indians use to choose to go to russia for two reasons
a) Medical degree-however that has become unattractive option, since Indian MCI, no longer recognizes Medical degree from Russia, among many other countries.
b)Soviet aficionados/Indian commies who think Russia as a mecca

By the way, Indians don't contract in cold, just as russians don't evaporate in tropical and temparate heat

Why would Indian Communists want to go to capitalist Russia?

 

[AnantS]

Dear Sir,

Kindly come out of your "paavam" mode (whatever that means) and read my post again. With some luck, you will understand the difference between the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the Russian Federation. It is pretty obvious in my post.

Yes, you are correct, Yeltsin sucked up to the United States. I am not defending Yeltsin, so that is a strawman.

I did read your post saar and that why my comment countering your part of argument where you squarely laid blame on India turning away its back on Russia. No saar, India just expanded its options as backup, after they saw Russian unreliability, its gawking away during Yeltsin rule. So saar, I dont understand how this argument has lead you to refer on completed unrelated tangential topic USSR vs Russia. For all that matters, it was Russia who boldly proclaimed on most of Soviet legacy and declared its true successor.

PS: To understand Paavam mode you might need to contact our esteemed mallus here or search youtube.

 

[airtel]

Why would Indian Communists want to go to capitalist Russia?

if they are comfortable to capitalist USA /UK then why not capitalist Russia ??

where are the children of communist leaders like yechuri ??

 

[AnantS]

Why would Indian Communists want to go to capitalist Russia?

No saar, few Indians migrated during soviet times/ intermarried with Soviets. So the Russia that I was referring to was to commie Russia aka USSR. Few Indians still carry same nostalgia for USSR and try to relive in current capitalist Russia

 

[pmaitra]

no

Everything I said is correct, but feel free to disagree.

...........soviets wanted to spread their Ideology = communism .

Yes, but for them, goodwill of India was always more important than ideology.

they controlled our policies & decisions .

If they did, India would have become an ally of the USSR long before the 1971/21 War. Our policies and decisions were our and our only.

just Like USA spread capitalism/globalization and is controlling policies of Governments around the world .

Sure.

since hundreds of years china & Russia are enemies .............Read their History .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sino-Russian_relations

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Russian_border_conflicts



their "friendship" is temporary , after fighting with USA /NATO .......they will again start their wars .

Yes, I am aware of that.

at-least read Your own sources (it is also written by a biased communist ) ,

It does not matter whether the messenger is a Communist or a Capitalist. The only thing that matters is whether the messenger is speaking the truth.

it was USA , who is responsible for green revolution in India during 1960s ...........which ultimately solved our food problems ........
^^ this Help is much better than any Aid .

Does not counter anything I said. Strawman.

USA also Helped in 1962 China-India war ................there was also an American Base in India during 1960s .

• USA refused air cover.
• USA delayed aid.
• Galbraith, the US ambassador, told Indians not to use the Air Force.
• US Defence Secretary McNamara was trying to build up relationship with PRC, and he pressurized Kennedy not to help India. He wanted to cultivate PRC because he knew the Sino-Soviet Split had started and wanted PRC as an ally.

this is called High Level of propaganda ............Russian sold Sukhoi 27 , sukhoi 30 , s-300 etc to china decades ago Ukraine crisis, after western sanctions .

they were selling weapons to Both India & china and making money out of our fear .

Russia Helped china in creating such a big military-industrial complex .

The very first Sukhoi-27 that the Russian Federation delivered to PRC was in 2013.
The very first S-300 that the Russian Federation delivered to PRC was in 2002.

N.B.: Sukhoi-30MKK is a variant of Sukhoi-27.

The USSR collapsed in 1991.

So, please let me know where the propaganda lies.

 

[Krusty]

And in Russia, a weak Indian organisms will not survive and they will become extinct.

Sorry but do you think India doesn't have areas that are cold? We hold one of the highest military bases in the world, if not the highest.

Sorry you were saying?

 

[pmaitra]

No saar, few Indians migrated during soviet times/ intermarried with Soviets. So the Russia that I was referring to was to commie Russia aka USSR. Few Indians still carry same nostalgia for USSR and try to relive in current capitalist Russia

Ok, so that makes sense. USSR. Thanks for the clarification. Let's not confuse the USSR with the Russian Federation.

Many Indians went to the USSR. Many were from the Army, Air Force, and Navy. Many went for education. Many went for government-transfer for training in civilian sectors, such as ONGC. Many went for political reasons.

 

[AnantS]

Ok, so that makes sense. USSR. Thanks for the clarification. Let's not confuse the USSR with the Russian Federation.

Many Indians went to the USSR. Many were from the Army, Air Force, and Navy. Many went for education. Many went for government-transfer for training in civilian sectors, such as ONGC. Many went for political reasons.

Yeah , but some time back, I was digging through history of Indian soviet army interactions. And I was surprised, that a lot of INdians earlier reported racial discrimination which often lead to altercations. Situations were resolved because at that time GOI was sucking up to Soviets, it completely ignored IA's complaints

 

[pmaitra]

Yeah , but some time back, I was digging through history of Indian soviet army interactions. And I was surprised, that a lot of INdians earlier reported racial discrimination which often lead to altercations. Situations were resolved because at that GOI was sucking up to Soviets and completely ignored IA's complaints

These things happen. There is one incident that happened in Burma. One of the INA soldier once slapped a Japanese officer and knocked his tooth off. The Japanese government hushed it up so as not to upset the INA.

 

[AnantS]

These things happen. There is one incident that happened in Burma. One of the INA soldier once slapped a Japanese officer and knocked his tooth off. The Japanese government hushed it up so as not to upset the INA.

Japanese army conduct was very bad towards INA during Burma campaign. And what Japanese did to Indian freedom fighters in Andaman Nicobar, inspite of Subash Chandra Bose is known. So no surprise, if tensions existed between INA and IJA .