Russia says in race to bag mega sub deal

p2prada

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Yes, a joint venture to sell something to India and other third parties (Italy buys German for its own navy). A rather puzzling combination given that Amur itself is the export variant of a sub (the Lada-class) that the Russians themselves are off and on about. Methinks perhaps the Russian navy, having previously rejected the Lada design, was ordered to buy it for international marketing purposes. The situation is further complicated by reports of Ladas (on which the Amurs are based) being offered to China as well.

Silly indeed.
You seem to be confused by a lot of misconceptions.

Even the Improved Kilo is as good as what the west is offering.
 

lookieloo

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You seem to be confused by a lot of misconceptions.
So I'm the one confused? Why don't you tell us again about how the S-80 will be ready by 2015?

Even the Improved Kilo is as good as what the west is offering.
Not sure when Kilo entered the conversation... how many more does India plan to buy again?

One last recommendation: Whatever India buys, it'd probably be a good idea to make sure it comes with VLS tubes for Brahmos this time.
 

Armand2REP

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Pointed this out time and time again, but there are no takers for it. Everything Russian is supposed to be junk and this is only specific to this forum on the internet, surprisingly.

@Armand2REP
Your statement is correct... even Russia denied entry of Amur into service because it is junk.
 
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natarajan

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we should get 10 kilo class as stop gap or get tot and increase submarine count while other submarine procurement goes intact
 

Decklander

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Your statement is correct... even Russia denied entry of Amur into service because it is junk.
Russia had a vaccum in design of subs between the time USSR went bankrupt and broke into pieces and the new resurrected Russia. They are back with new and young blood with new designs. AMUR type or follow on class is the only sub which meets IN needs to have vertical launch tubes for missiles. IN is also probably the worlds first naval force which wants to put nuke missiles on a Diesel-electic sub with AIP.
Innovation/Jugaad is whr we Indians have mastery.
Noone ever thought of putting nukes on a diesel-electric sub till date as the AIP was not available. Now that we have it, we can take a sub very close to enemy shores and strike deep inside.
 

EXPERT

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I would consider joint DRDO and RUSSIAN made AIP over French one ......
 

lookieloo

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Nice. But why was Golf class withdrawn? Pls clarify that also and also thr lifetime and the reasons for it.
Don't really see what that has to do with you stating categorically that India is the first nation ever to consider putting nukes on a conventional submarine. The Russians already did it, which makes you wrong; end of story.
 

p2prada

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So I'm the one confused? Why don't you tell us again about how the S-80 will be ready by 2015?
Truly you are confused. Read your post again and see if you were talking about the Spanish or the Russians.

Yes, a joint venture to sell something to India and other third parties (Italy buys German for its own navy). A rather puzzling combination given that Amur itself is the export variant of a sub (the Lada-class) that the Russians themselves are off and on about. Methinks perhaps the Russian navy, having previously rejected the Lada design, was ordered to buy it for international marketing purposes. The situation is further complicated by reports of Ladas (on which the Amurs are based) being offered to China as well.

Silly indeed.
Please point out where you mention the Spanish sub here.

Not sure when Kilo entered the conversation... how many more does India plan to buy again?
The Lada class is like the Su-35BM version of the Improved Kilo.

One last recommendation: Whatever India buys, it'd probably be a good idea to make sure it comes with VLS tubes for Brahmos this time.
Some subs won't.

As of today only the Russian subs come with Brahmos VLS. The French seem to be talking about it, but the modification may end up being too big or expensive. The current version of Scorpenes that we are building are too small. The others competitors, I don't know.
 
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Russians always do this everyone something indigenous is close to development.
I will view this as a positive that indigenous aip is almost ready.
 

p2prada

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We don't have a project for indigenous AIP.

The plans to develop our own sub isn't even on the drawing board.
It would take at least 10 years before we know something concrete about it.

It is possible we will take up an indigenous project the next decade. We want Arihant to be a success first.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Indigenous AIP submarine in 4 to 5 years: DRDO
KOCHI: The Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) hopes to develop an indigenous Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) submarine in four to five years, chief controller, Research and Development, Dr A Sivathanu Pillai has said.

Research and development work was going on at the DRDO Naval Material Research Laboratory (NMRL) in Mumbai to develop hydrogen-based fuel cells for the diesel-powered submarines, Dr Pillai told mediapersons.
"NMRL already has developed number of fuel cells," Pillai, who was at Trikkakara near here in connection with a national symposium at the Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL), said.

Diesel power submarines will have to surface everyday for air, while the hydrogen based technology is new and presently not operational anywhere in the world. "It is being developed by one or two countries. We are also going to develop that technology and that will be installed in the diesel submarines," he said.
To a query, he said while Pakistan got AIP developed by France last month under the deal to purchase the Agosta submarines, India would be able to develop the technology indigenously.

India may also go in for AIP system from France or some other countries for the six submarines that are being constructed at Mazgaon. "But, we are not interested in that system and want a better system that is based on hydrogen," Pillai said.
Source : Indigenous AIP submarine in 4 to 5 years: DRDO - Times Of India

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Uncertainty over AIP for Indian Scorpene submarines

Naval Materials Research Laboratory (NMRL) is developing an AIP Plug for the fifth and sixth Scorpene submarines, which would be installed on them only if the development is completed within the schedule of the construction of the two submarines.
Source : Uncertainty over AIP for Indian Scorpene submarines | StratPost

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DRDO Plans to Develop AIP System for Submarines

According to DRDO sources, work on a land-based prototype will be initiated after which they will move to engineering a submarine platform. Sources said that the DRDO has been requested by the Indian Navy to create a fully engineered fuel cell AIP by 2014. This will enable the possible use of the indigenous AIP in the last two of the six Scorpene submarines being built in Mumbai's Mazagaon Dock Limited (MDL).
The current DRDO endeavour for creating the land-based prototype and the engineered AIP is focused mainly on the Indian Navy and its operational needs. The French defence firm DCNS has offered to install its MESMA AIP in the last two Scorpenes submarines. However, India has not committed anything since it will wait for the platform that will be available during the induction time.
Source : DRDO Plans to Develop AIP System for Submarines | Hexxcom International

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DRDO Developing Air Independent Propulsion for Indian Submarines

The full scale operation of a land-based prototype of the indigenously built AIP system is likely to be demonstrated by 2015.

Defence Minister A K Antony told parliament in written reply to a question that Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO)'s Ambernath-based Naval Material Research Laboratory (NMRL) is working on a technology demonstration project for "Development of Land-based Prototype for AIP" for submarine propulsion.
Source : DRDO Developing Air Independent Propulsion for Indian Submarines
 

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