Russia Ready to Supply India With Anaerobic Submarines

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Lions Of Punjab, Jan 23, 2015.

  1. Lions Of Punjab

    Lions Of Punjab Regular Member

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    Russia Ready to Supply India With Anaerobic Submarines

    Russia Ready to Supply India With Anaerobic Submarines | idrw.org

    Russia could supply the Indian Navy with “stealthy” submarines, equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems if India opens a tender for them, a senior official at Russia’s Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation told RIA Novosti on Wednesday.
    “The Russian side is ready to supply a foreign client with a submarine refitted to meet any requests for a different exterior and equipment as formulated by the client,” the source told RIA Novosti.

    In 2007, New Delhi said it was considering expanding its fleet of submarines with diesel-electric subs. One of the key requirements was for the boats to have so-called anaerobic engines.

    Air-independent (closed cycle) submarines, which usually use hydrogen-oxygen fuel cells, are quieter than conventional diesel-electric boats and do not have to surface or use snorkel tubes to breathe air, thereby exposing themselves to detection by radar and other sensors.

    A Russian design bureau, Rubin, is currently running tests on AIP systems to be installed on the Russian Navy’s Lada-class diesel-electric submarines (Project 677) in 2015, with a new class of non-nuclear submarines with AIP engines to enter the construction phase in two years.
    This comes as Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu arrived in New Delhi earlier in the day to talk over the countries’ joint military-technical ventures with his counterpart, Manohar Parrikar. The ministers have agreed to “fast-track” a host of joint projects, including work on a fifth-generation fighter jet they are building together.

    India is Russia’s largest military-technical cooperation partner. According to estimates by Russia’s Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, the country supplied India with $4.78 billion worth of weapons and military equipment in 2013. India also leases Russian hardware, such as the nuclear-powered Akula-class Chakra submarine.
     
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  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    One should go in for it. The submarine fleet must return to its operational strength and add some more.
     
  4. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    Lada-class submarine. Does not sound very reliable, or modern. Must be Russian humor, knowing the "legendary" reliability of Lada.
     
  5. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    Not LADA, but AMUR.
     
  6. DingDong

    DingDong Senior Member Senior Member

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    India will go for her home grown AIP.
     
  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    What makes you feel so?

    Any reports to indicate that it is not up to the mark.

    Or is it your mere dislike for Russia and Russians speaking?

    Finland's Vesikko is a Vesikko-class submarine, which was launched on 10 May 1933.

    Vesikko was ordered by a Dutch engineering company Ingenieurskantoor voor Scheepsbouw in 1930 as a commercial submarine prototype.

    Ingenieurskantoor voor Scheepsbouw or IvS, which was actually a German company in the Netherlands, was established for designing a new submarine fleet. According to the Versailles Peace Treaty, Germany could not have various weapons, including submarines, after World War I. This resulted in moving the armaments' research to foreign countries.

    The objective of Germans was to design a modern submarine type to be used during general mobilization; technology and standards were to be new and not based on World War I designs. For this purpose two prototypes were built, E1 in Spain and CV 707 in Finland. The latter was later chosen as a first submarine type for the new fleet. Construction of both of these experimental submarines was funded by Reichsmarine.

    Commander Karl Bartenbach, who had retired from active service in the Reichsmarine, worked as secret liaison officer in Finland.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
  8. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    National threat has no time to wait for the favourable wind to blow.

    It changes from time to time and one has to be ready for it all the time and also predict the change of the future.
     
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  9. EXPERT

    EXPERT Regular Member

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    I also think that India will go with home grown AIP, and already we are in talks with Russians for leasing second nuclear submarine.
    Their is need to increase the strength of submarines but no need to order it from Russia..
     
  10. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    I think it makes sense to order 6 more conventional subs from Russia.
     
  11. Bheeshma

    Bheeshma Regular Member

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    He is talking about the car company LADA. Not very reliable ones from SU days.
     
  12. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Looking at the current status of our submarine fleet, we cannot wait for the Russians to develop their AIP system.

    Let us plan with what is on the table at this moment and wait for our own AIP or the Russian AIP, for future acquisitions.
     
  13. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    And this was a Fiat product.
     
  14. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Or the Japanese Lithium-Ion technology. Looks promising to me.

    Correct. We have those Fiat/LADA cars in India too. They were sold as PAL 118NE. I, along with my college buddies, once went on a trip in that. Nice car.
     
  15. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

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    What about Indian AIP in a Russian submarine? Joint projects are the way to go.
    Russian shipyards have excess capacity and India is lagging in submarine construction capacity. We have only two shipyards with sub building experience but the capacity at both shipyards is very low.
     
  16. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Is the India system ready, I do not know the status. that is why my opinion is that looking at our fleet levels we have to go with what is available at present and leave some room for further developments by Indian firms.
     
  17. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Yes we had one when I was a kid. It replaced our Amby. After the Amby it felt like driving a F1 car.
     
  18. grampiguy

    grampiguy Regular Member

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    One can start by putting Indian AIP into Kilo class Subs when they go for MLUs. An agreement with Russians regarding this would be a better approach.
     
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  19. Warhawk

    Warhawk Regular Member

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    The Indian AIP was to undergo testing this year as per DRDO officials. But we can expect some delays in testing. So I would also prefer Japanese Lithium ion battery technology.
     
  20. Kharavela

    Kharavela Regular Member

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    Air Independent Propulsion or AIP is based on different varieties of Fuel Cell supplying power to propel the Submarine quietly. The risky part is Hydrogen gas which is required for all types of Fuel Cells, as it is super inflammable. Moreover, Fuel Cells are very costly to procure & maintain.

    In contrast, cost of Li-ion batteries are going downwards day by day. And they are easy to maintain.

    Therefore I agree with your observation & look forward for early adaptation of Li-ion system by IN.

    Sir, AFAIK 118NE stands for Nissan Engine & its Japanese.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
  21. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    You are correct. Lithium-ion batteries are getting cheaper, and I think that is the way to go.

    The engine could be Japanese, but the car is Fiat.
     
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