Russia ready to sell Su-35 fighter jets to China

[Necrosis Factor]

And what has this got to do with making fighter jets in-house from design concept to actual production? Certainly not in case of J-11.

Was merely refuting your claim on domestic civil self-reliance.

 

[maomao]

Was merely refuting your claim on domestic civil self-reliance.

China is source for cheap and low-end goods for Big Corporates such as TATA, Reliance etc. So rather than creating a whole new supply chain, its better to give the contract to a low-end manufacturer, hence China, its simply called profit maximization in Capitalist terms.

P.S: Soon Huawei and other Chinese telecons will be barred from supplying Indian companies their products and services. It is going to happen soon as they are considered as security threat, these contracts may get cancelled, similar to non-IMEI cell-phones of Chinese make.

 

[Necrosis Factor]

China is source for cheap and low-end goods for Big Corporates such as TATA, Reliance etc. So rather than creating a whole new supply chain, its better to give the contract to a low-end manufacturer, hence China, its simply called profit maximization in Capitalist terms.

P.S: Soon Huawei and other Chinese telecons will be barred from supplying Indian companies their products and services. It is going to happen soon as they are considered as security threat, these contracts may get cancelled, similar to non-IMEI cell-phones of Chinese make.

Power generators and 3G network infrastructure are NOT cheap low-end goods. Both require a lot of know-how and engineering finesse.

 

[p2prada]

Actually, there is very slight difference between you making J-11s and us making SU-30MKIs. For example, Chinese as well as Indian engineers know everything about the SU-30 design by now and therefore have gained perfection in assembling them.

Wrong. We are making the AL-31FP engine from scratch in HAL. Also, we are working on the 2nd most advanced version of the Flanker. That keeps us ahead of the game.

 

[Rage]

Furthermore, a 300 crore contract to Huawei for the 3G network?

"India's Tata Teleservices Limited (TTSL) has signed a contract with Huawei to rollout TTSL's 3G network in India earler this week. Another Chinese vendor ZTE has landed in a 300-crore contract on Friday to supply WiMax systems to state-owned Bharat Sanchar Nigam Ltd (BSNL) for its broadband rollout."
http://lteworld.org/blog/huawei-zte-win-indian-contracts-following-security-concerns

You're catching the bull by the tail, this is a consideration of cost-effectiveness. Commercial firms will import from China, because China is simply more cost-effective.

When it comes down to the defense industry however, cost-effectiveness will take a back seat.

 

[Agantrope]

Power generators and 3G network infrastructure are NOT cheap low-end goods. Both require a lot of know-how and engineering finesse.

BHEL produces more quality electrical component than any chinese firms. If you are not still convinced just check the Railway engine compartment, it will have a bold word 'BHEL' which speaks for the name, these engines cars are more than 20 years old and till running like a horse . Chinese products are preferred because they are much cheaper than the indian made, i mean much cheaper.

 

[badguy2000]

BHEL produces more quality electrical component than any chinese firms. If you are not still convinced just check the Railway engine compartment, it will have a bold word 'BHEL' which speaks for the name, these engines cars are more than 20 years old and till running like a horse . Chinese products are preferred because they are much cheaper than the indian made, i mean much cheaper.

what a frog in a well!

guy, the products of BHEL are all outdated in CHina. if BHEL were an CHinese enterprise, its products even could not get a license from the government because of its backwardness

To tell the truth, the electricity generators that CHina sells to India are generation technically behind the ones used by CHinese own power plants

BTW, most Chinese power plants use 600 mw supercritical power generators. the new power plants Under construction all use 1000MW ultra-supercritical power generators. those modern power generators are cleaner and more efficient than those dumped into India and other 3rd world countries.

In fact, Chinese power plants are even more modern than most of ones in USA,because Yankees are too lazy to upgrade their power plants.

what Chinese companies now dump to the 3rd world are all those obsolete power generators,including India.

 

[badguy2000]

Power generators and 3G network infrastructure are NOT cheap low-end goods. Both require a lot of know-how and engineering finesse.

in this forum, the power generators and 3G infrastructures made by Chinese are low-end goods while call centers in India are high-techs....hahah

 

[Crusader53]

SU-35 will be purchased by CHINA as it gives generation ahead technology which CHINA in use today, ( RADAR, ENGINES )

if not

Than their will be JV between two to create some J-XX type equivalent to SU-35BMs..



China cannot lose this opportunity to get his Hands on IBRIS-E AESA which will give a upper-hand in both fronts against India and SK & Japan..
Also SU-35BM package comes with better engines and AWACS killer missiles, Looking all these i can say India need to speed up not only MMRCA but AMCA projects..

Also i should mention that SU-35BM engines are AL-41F1a, Same engines will be used on PAK-FA, Its very possible Chinese may copy for their own 5G fighter, these Engines are preform better than AL-31Fp in Su-30mki..

Your right its not so much that China wants nor needs the Su-35 Platform. Just the many pcs that make the Aircraft.

 

[Agantrope]

what a frog in a well!

guy, the products of BHEL are all outdated in CHina. if BHEL were an CHinese enterprise, its products even could not get a license from the government because of its backwardness

To tell the truth, the electricity generators that CHina sells to India are generation technically behind the ones used by CHinese own power plants

BTW, most Chinese power plants use 600 mw supercritical power generators. the new power plants Under construction all use 1000MW ultra-supercritical power generators. those modern power generators are cleaner and more efficient than those dumped into India and other 3rd world countries.

In fact, Chinese power plants are even more modern than most of ones in USA,because Yankees are too lazy to upgrade their power plants.

what Chinese companies now dump to the 3rd world are all those obsolete power generators,including India.

Me a frog in the well!!! Come on CCP proganda machine....

Have you ever witnessed the BHEL facility present in India, if not then i would ask you to take a week leave for your bank job and come and visit its facility. Again dont talk as if it in china. World know how the Cisco product was copied even with the spelling mistake. Now dont me a well in the frog, do some common-sense googling.

I am a techie, an electrical engg as well, if you ask me what the BHEL machine is outdated, i ll show how well the life cycle of a chinese machine goes. I have handled the both. If not you are going to accept the fact, then i wont disturb your dreams. Have a sweet one instead

 

[FGFAPilot1]

It may be recalled that development and trial of some of the key technologies that will go into the PAK-FA started some 2-1/2 - 3 decades or so back. In this regard some of those technologies that are near maturity have been split between 2 aircraft - Mig-35 & Su-35BM. While the MiG-35 has received the preliminary AESA radar (yet to be more evolved) and the 3-D TVC that will finally go into the PAK-FA, the Su-35BM has received the 117S engine (itself a derivative of the AL41) and this or further finer refinement of this will finally go into the PAK-FA.

Hence, Su-30MKI minus canard foreplane plus 117S engine plus Irbis radar instead of BARS = Su-35BM. It may also be noted that Su-35BM has retained 2-D TVC.

All of the above or any combination of the above can at any given point of time be incorporated into the MKI as an upgrade. So, why worry???? Just imagine the MKI with AESA + 117S engine + 3-D TVC. Game, set, and match; the ultimate evolution of generation 4.75.

 

[redragon]

mark my word.
China will never willing to buy meaningful # of Su-35, 1-2 at most, if that is the case, I don't think Russian will agree to sell.
So this will never happen, ever.

 

[badguy2000]

well, CHinese 5G prototype has appeared...do Indian friends here still believe that CHina will buy SU35?

 

[Tolaha]

mark my word.
China will never willing to buy meaningful # of Su-35, 1-2 at most, if that is the case, I don't think Russian will agree to sell.
So this will never happen, ever.

If so, then its very likely that the Chinese 5G bird will be extremely underpowered or unreliable or both!

 

[tony4562]

Russia likes to pretend that they are on par with the best from the west whereas china is way down the ladder. But the truth is Russia was already way behind the west when the soviet union collapsed, and the past 2 decades have only seen them falling further behind whereas China over the same period has been catching up quickly. My assessment is that China is still way behind the west (perhaps by couple decades), US in particular, but at same time China is breathing down Russia's neck as far as military technology is concerned, and is about to overtake Russia in the next 5-10 years.

I don't buy the crap that Su35 is the 4.5 gen fighter, 2nd only to F22. For me, any western jets, be it F15, F16, F18, Mirage2000, not to mention Eurofighter, Rafale and of course F22, are far superior to any russian jets, past or present. Think about why India is willing to spending 40-50 million euro a pop on upgrading the 2.5 decade old Mirage2000 when it could almost buy a brand new Su30MKI for the same price? There are fundamental differences between western and russian (have to admit chinese as well) products. Take a look at the hydraulic system used on Su27, it looks like it is made by someone in Vietnam in a back yard. That's why 80% of russia's export is made up of raw materials, that's why its only countries that don't have money or are barred by the west, are buying weapons from Russia, and that's why the russians themselves are flying Boeing/Airbus instead of Tupolev or Illusin, and that's why India now flush with cash are increasingly looking to the west for arms.

 

[p2prada]

I don't buy the crap that Su35 is the 4.5 gen fighter, 2nd only to F22. For me, any western jets, be it F15, F16, F18, Mirage2000, not to mention Eurofighter, Rafale and of course F22, are far superior to any russian jets, past or present.

Too vague. Technologically BM is behind the Raptor, but ahead of all other aircraft you mentioned. IAF can vouch for that.

Think about why India is willing to spending 40-50 million euro a pop on upgrading the 2.5 decade old Mirage2000 when it could almost buy a brand new Su30MKI for the same price?

Two words, Manufacturing Capability. MKIs are being built at full capacity in both countries for the IAF. Mirages will be upgraded means we will have 2 extra squardons of modern fighter jets. Replacing the 2 Mirage 2000 squadrons with the cheaper MKI would mean we have to build 50 MKIs in just 2 years which is impossible for us.

The Chinese want the Su-35BM, not for the aircraft but to power their Fifth Gen fighter, nothing else. The Chinese do not have aircraft engines.

I am guessing, the minute you get your BMs you will cannibalize the engines and stick it into the J-20.