Russia Offers Nuclear Aircraft Carrier

sorcerer

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I'll just say this:
China is a rising superpower.
.
But with lack of direction in diplomacy. Assertion without Compassion.
its like having teeth that cannot bite.

India's relationship with Russia has been strong despite it's tendency to support enemies, because Russia was the only major non-NATO superpower.

China is not only a rising superpower, but also a rising superpower with huge cultural ties to India, and a predominantly pro-Han political direction to everything.
china had cultural ties with India which the commies are trying to extinguish.. china can culturally invade pakistan which they are doing quite well...but with India thats gonna get a bit tough.

Chinese cultural tie with India doesnt guarantee a pro-Han political direction as India has taken in many such cultural poisons and has rejected it when it finds that its leaves a bad taste in the mouth unlike the chinese.


China is able to produce military hardware cheaper than any other nation, and if it's technology is built in India, it will be even cheaper.
In war you want reliability not cheapness.C'mon even pakistan, strong ally of china is shopping for reliable fighters ditching the chinese JF-17
For India defence manufacturing works because India works on front line technologies through partnering with nations that has proven track records.


urthermore, China has more money to spend on research and education. It will produce more advanced technologies than India. It will repeat the situation in-between Russia and USA during the Cold War, producing technologies that even the United States would find a challenge to reproduce.
Money doesn't guarantee research gap brought out by copying tech.
china is trying to produce a lot of advanced tech that has not fulfilled its role and many failed miserably.
Such things has to evolve!! it takes time even if you are trying to copy stuff.


India needs to work with China. While India needs to play safe and make sure that it doesn't "give away" its military to China in a similar manner to Europe's relationship with the USA, it shouldn't avoid China altogether. The aim for India is for a closer relationship with China built on historic Hindu/Buddhist ties and peaceful economic growth for both countries
India needs to work with china PROVIDED china doesnt use pakistan terrorism as a counter or coercive policy and Naxals as a tactical asset.
Actually china needs to play safe as china is actually surrounded by "PROBLEMS" created by within china.
 

busesaway

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But with lack of direction in diplomacy. Assertion without Compassion.
its like having teeth that cannot bite.



china had cultural ties with India which the commies are trying to extinguish.. china can culturally invade pakistan which they are doing quite well...but with India thats gonna get a bit tough.

Chinese cultural tie with India doesnt guarantee a pro-Han political direction as India has taken in many such cultural poisons and has rejected it when it finds that its leaves a bad taste in the mouth unlike the chinese.
China has religious/historic similarities with India. A large number of Chinese people live in North-East India too. The majority of Chinese people have positive views of Tibet and Nepal.

You misunderstood my point on Han. China's actions are primarily driven by economic motives in order to privilege the Han Chinese. Their political and military maneuvers are about providing Beijing (Han Chinese Capital) with the advantage. They only care about Pakistan because the country provides them with an advantage; they will never treat Pakistani people worse than the people in Xinjiang.

India can benefit from China's pro-Han racism because it can be used to drive a wedge in-between Pakistanis and Chinese, while India can also benefit from cultural similarities through Buddhism and philosophy. India needs to angle itself as a beneficiary to the Han Chinese, in a similar manner India angles itself as a beneficiary to the Japanese.



In war you want reliability not cheapness.C'mon even pakistan, strong ally of china is shopping for reliable fighters ditching the chinese JF-17
For India defence manufacturing works because India works on front line technologies through partnering with nations that has proven track records.




Money doesn't guarantee research gap brought out by copying tech.
china is trying to produce a lot of advanced tech that has not fulfilled its role and many failed miserably.
Such things has to evolve!! it takes time even if you are trying to copy stuff.




India needs to work with china PROVIDED china doesnt use pakistan terrorism as a counter or coercive policy and Naxals as a tactical asset.
Actually china needs to play safe as china is actually surrounded by "PROBLEMS" created by within china.
I'm not advocating a complete sell-out to China. India should diversify it's import partners, by having X% coming from NATO sources, and X% coming from non-NATO sources; non-NATO sources should be divided up between Russia, China, etc... equally.

The USSR proved during the Cold War that it was possible to rival the USA in terms of technological achievement and military power; I presume that China has the means to do exactly the same. China has already shown that it can compete with the USA for technological achievement.

India needs to work with Chinese military companies in order to produce military hardware in India using Chinese designs. Regardless of notions of cheapness vs reliability, India is a poor country with a inferior defense budget - it needs cheap hardware.

Russia has historically funded and provided arms to many of India's enemies. It is also a very close friend of Pakistan. I think China is more valuable to India than Russia, especially since religion is the primary motive for war (as in, actual war, and not just posturing) in modern-day Earth.

I agree however that China (and Russia) need to step away from Pakistan, though this assertion can also be thrown at many western countries including "strong ally" USA.
 

sorcerer

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China has religious/historic similarities with India. A large number of Chinese people live in North-East India too. The majority of Chinese people have positive views of Tibet and Nepal.
.
If they are Living in NORTH -EAST India..they are INDIANS..not chinese.
(Typical chinese assertion..if it looks like chinese..its chinese)

but chinese commie party has no positive view on Tibet and Nepal.. You understand what commie party CCP did with Tibet Monks..


You misunderstood my point on Han. China's enemies are primarily driven by economic motives in order to privilege the Han Chinese. Their political and military maneuvers are about providing Beijing (Han Chinese Capital) with the advantage. They only care about Pakistan because the country provides them with an advantage; they will never treat Pakistani people worse than the people in Xinjiang.
Firstly, I am nor my fellow Indians will look at china as HAN or any other ethnic cult you put out culturally but as "china" the whole of it as a nation and what china does as a WHOLE against India..
Its looked NOT as Han against India..but as china against India.


Absolutely...but..chinese economic maneuvers should never come at the cost of Indian economic growth and National security. I
china cares about pakistan because pakistan is a stooge and will do any dirty job if its against India. This is the advantage Beijing is having to counter India.
china CANT AFFORD to treat pakis worse because the whole control of XINJIANG will be swept away by pakistan with the help of terrorists if chinese mistreat them.



India can benefit from China's pro-Han racism because it can be used to drive a wedge in-between Pakistanis and Chinese, while India can also benefit from cultural similarities through Buddhism and philosophy. India needs to angle itself as a beneficiary to the Han Chinese, in a similar manner India angles itself as a beneficiary to the Japanese.
No..china needs pakistan and pakistan needs china. china is colonizing pakistan and thats not going to stop unless pakistan has the guts to take its head out of its ass and smell the coffeee.


pakistan is so silent on muslims being mistreated in china.. so by racist motive if India wants India has more powerful tool to wedge gap between china and pakistan..which is mistreatment of islam by chinese
But India is not china and resort to such tactics. USA is doing it much better anyway in the region.

Why should India be beneficiary for Han chinese (The majority of china) who has NO SAY in the conduct of Communist party of china who govern the chinese state and foreign policies.
All the cultural talk of philosophy and stuffs with a nation whose administration doesn't give any regards to cultural or religious connection in Own Nation is futile and waste of time.


I'm not advocating a complete sell-out to China. India should diversify it's import partners, by having X% coming from NATO sources, and X% coming from non-NATO sources; non-NATO sources should be divided up between Russia, China, etc... equally.
India's immediate concern is pakistan and china is arming pakistan..
why should India buy from china...and let china arm both side of the equation?



The USSR proved during the Cold War that it was possible to rival the USA in terms of technological achievement and military power; I presume that China has the means to do exactly the same. China has already shown that it can compete with the USA for technological achievement.
chinese equipment might is not demonstrated in real world..only on PAPERS and news article which is chinese state owned propaganda news agencies.
chinese Mil. equipments have NEVER gone a NEUTRAL party scrutiny to be certified worthy.
...where as US /Russia/Israel/French equipments and technology is tested all over the middle east during many war theaters.

when was the last time china even done a small border skirmish in real with guns firing and all?

India needs to work with Chinese military companies in order to produce military hardware in India using Chinese designs. Regardless of notions of cheapness vs reliability, India is a poor country with a inferior defense budget - it needs cheap hardware.
:pound::pound::pound:

chinese paki friend wont be happy at all.
What make you think India needs chinese designs to build things?
India is the largest importer of WESTERN TECHNOLOGY when it comes to defense procurement.
you are confusing India with pakistan.
or
if google is allowed inside your dungeon you should google up Indian Defence capacity and educate yourself.
India retains world's largest weapons importer tag

India accounted for 14 per cent of total imports between 2011 and 2015. China ranks second with 4.7 per cent, Australia (3.6 per cent), Pakistan (3.3 per cent), Vietnam (2.9 per cent) and South Korea (2.6 per cent) the report titled “Trends in international arms transfers-2015” said.

Meaning India has the MONEY to buy Quality stuff.




Russia has historically funded and provided arms to many of India's enemies. It is also a very close friend of Pakistan. I think China is more valuable to India than Russia, especially since religion is the primary motive for war (as in, actual war, and not just posturing) in modern-day Earth.
:pound::pound::pound:
china has hystorically funded and trained paki terrorists and NOT RUSSIA.
Russia has stood by India in times of Sanctions.


I agree however that China (and Russia) need to step away from Pakistan, though this assertion can also be thrown at many western countries including "strong ally" USA
That shows that you are a Madrassa educated chinese from behind the great walls :D
Hence Proved!!!

I was engaging you till you run out of your ammunitions i.e "valuable reasons" like any other misinformed chinese.
 
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Bahamut

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Russian haven't ever built such a ship till now. They also lack the necessary experience.
They have more experience then us in ship design and building and are willing to share .We are trying to input and help for every one including US,UK and France but Russian are most willing to give important tech ,
 

Dark Sorrow

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They have more experience then us in ship design and building and are willing to share .We are trying to input and help for every one including US,UK and France but Russian are most willing to give important tech ,
Sir, if you read the article you will figure out that Russia wants us to give them order to build the carrier in their shipyard. This is what is unacceptable. Building super carrier is very different from building ships. What is the guarantee that Vikramadatya fiasco won't be repeated.
 

sorcerer

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What is the guarantee that Vikramadatya fiasco won't be repeated.
Yes..that exactly is I am worried about despite all the positives for Russia.
The best part to look at is How to AVOID such NOT just with Russia but with other nations too as we have soo much of Make in India and other programs on the schedule.
 

PAPA

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China has religious/historic similarities with India. A large number of Chinese people live in North-East India too. The majority of Chinese people have positive views of Tibet and Nepal.
there is no Chinese in North east all of them are Indians ................and yes they hate China as hell ,come here in Arunachal pradesh & verify .:india::india::india:

if Chinese have positive Views of tibet then .........................Leave tibet ....................it is a free country illegally occupied by Chinese .:shoot::shoot::shoot:


while India can also benefit from cultural similarities through Buddhism and philosophy. India needs to angle itself as a beneficiary to the Han Chinese, in a similar manner India angles itself as a beneficiary to the Japanese.
Japanese helped Indians Against British .........Azaad hind Fauj was fighting shoulder to shoulder with Japanese Against British forces ....................majority of Indian Buddhists rejoined Hinduism ..........now majority of Indian Buddhist population is situated in Leh-Laddakh and they Hate Chinese .:india::india::india:



I'm not advocating a complete sell-out to China. India should diversify it's import partners, by having X% coming from NATO sources, and X% coming from non-NATO sources; non-NATO sources should be divided up between Russia, China, etc... equally.
yes so that Chinese can arm Pakistaan Against India ?? so that you can create troubles with Indian neighbors like Lanka , Nepal , bhutal , maldeev & bangladesh ??
so that you can fund maoists ?

The USSR proved during the Cold War that it was possible to rival the USA in terms of technological achievement and military power; I presume that China has the means to do exactly the same:bs::bs:. China has already shown that it can compete with the USA for technological achievement.:daru::daru::daru:

India needs to work with Chinese military companies in order to produce military hardware in India using Chinese designs :bplease::bplease:. Regardless of notions of cheapness vs reliability, India is a poor country with a inferior defense budget - it needs cheap hardware.
:blah::blah::blah:....................you dont have any F++king technological achievement or military power .
Go & participate in Any war ................your inexperienced Virgin Army will be F**ked ..

you dont have any designing ability ...................all of your designs are copies of rejected Russian weapons or American weapons .
First of all go & make a reliable jet Engine , reliable Liquid / water cooled Tank engine , an Aircraft carrier etc .
Indians are creating joint ventures with Lockheed martin , boeing , Airbus , antonov , elbit ,rafael. etc companies .............all of the European , Russian & American companies are ready to Invest in India .................so we have 10000 times better designs & quality as compare to Chinese ............and yes cheaper too .
in the Next 15 years India will become one of the biggest exporter of weapons .



Russia has historically funded and provided arms to many of India's enemies. It is also a very close friend of Pakistan. I think China is more valuable to India than Russia, especially since religion is the primary motive for war (as in, actual war, and not just posturing) in modern-day Earth.

I agree however that China (and Russia) need to step away from Pakistan, though this assertion can also be thrown at many western countries including "strong ally" USA.
religion is not Motive of Modern Wars .................Money & control are the Motives ................

Russia has Historically Funded & provided Arms to Baloch freedom Fighters against Pakistaan ,
they never provided any strategic weapon to our enemies .................on the other hand Chinkies provided nukes to porkis .

in the situation of India-pakistaan war , if any nuclear weapon ever used against India ....................we will nuke shanghai & HAN capital Beijing Along with every Big city in Pakistaan ..........

that will be your Punishment .........
 
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Adioz

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I might start a sh**-storm if I say this, but would it not be interesting if we developed IAC-II with Japanese assistance?
It would be very interesting to see how China reacts to this.
The tech the Japanese have is no laughing matter. Look at Yamato-1:-
It uses a magnetohydrodynamic drive to propel itself. There are no moving parts in the ship's thrusters. This is quite a technological marvel they made 25 years ago.



I know that the Japs have not made any carriers since the last 72 years, but the last one they made in 1944 displaced 70,000 tons. They have enough tech to make a modern Nuclear supercarrier work. Catapult tech can be sourced from US. The project will benefit Japan as well; as it sheds its post-WWII pacifist principles. And it will be true co-development, not a one-way street like in Russian "ToT".
Just hope a negative Japanese public opinion (due to their pacifist nature) does not complicate things.
 

Bahamut

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Sir, if you read the article you will figure out that Russia wants us to give them order to build the carrier in their shipyard. This is what is unacceptable. Building super carrier is very different from building ships. What is the guarantee that Vikramadatya fiasco won't be repeated.
Yes there is this threat but is the best possible outcome ,US,France or UK will not give us the critical tech to make the dock .The other is full indigenous which is more risky.First we need to get the tech for making the dock and cranes so these ships in India .Russia is presently making the dock and has plane for 2 more along with the equipment ,so we get ToT it is possible we can make ship in India with Design input from other countries .
 

Bahamut

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Look at Yamato-1:-
It uses a magnetohydrodynamic drive to propel itself. There are no moving parts in the ship's thrusters. This is quite a technological marvel they made 25 years ago.
It is good in theory but the result in field were very bad
I know that the Japs have not made any carriers since the last 72 years, but the last one they made in 1944 displaced 70,000 tons. They have enough tech to make a modern Nuclear supercarrier work. Catapult tech can be sourced from US. The project will benefit Japan as well; as it sheds its post-WWII pacifist principles.
Japan govt. is not very pro active when it come to arms sale ,take the US 2 sales for example ,let hope it changes and they are more proactive
And it will be true co-development, not a one-way street like in Russian "ToT".
Just hope a negative Japanese public opinion (due to their pacifist nature) does not complicate things.
Russian ToT was been good for our industry ,look at Su 30 MKI ,Brahmos missile and also Kaveri engine
 

Scarface

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Yes there is this threat but is the best possible outcome ,US,France or UK will not give us the critical tech to make the dock .The other is full indigenous which is more risky.First we need to get the tech for making the dock and cranes so these ships in India .Russia is presently making the dock and has plane for 2 more along with the equipment ,so we get ToT it is possible we can make ship in India with Design input from other countries .
The Russians can make us offers but we have first hand experience of Russian inexperience in making carriers with the whole Vikramaditya issue.

They can offer all the ToT they want but when their ability to reliably deliver the actual product is under suspicion it doesn't mean much to the Navy
 

Adioz

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It is good in theory but the result in field were very bad
You are missing the point. What I mean to say is that Japanese are technology leaders in the world. They have a lot of civilian technology that is state-of-the-art that they developed. Russians, OTOH, are only adept at military technology; as a country, Russians have not achieved the level of technology that Japan has. Don't get me wrong, and don't start comparing Soviets and Japanese. Russia is not Soviet Union, it is a mere shell of the former superpower. Look at the economies of the two countries and notice what they depend upon. Japanese are way-up in the value chain and export high-tech goods whereas Russians rely on commodity exports like oil.

Russian ToT was been good for our industry ,look at Su 30 MKI ,Brahmos missile and also Kaveri engine
Not going to argue what Russian ToT is all about. Just conjecture that Japanese ToT will be better.

Japan govt. is not very pro active when it come to arms sale ,take the US 2 sales for example ,let hope it changes and they are more proactive
Actually, the government is proactive. The Japanese people are averse to it.
Apparently the Japanese people don't like bloodshed. (Don't know how that works out though, look at a bunch of Japanese anime, they are so damn dark and gory :laugh:)
 

Bahamut

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You are missing the point. What I mean to say is that Japanese are technology leaders in the world. They have a lot of civilian technology that is state-of-the-art that they developed. Russians, OTOH, are only adept at military technology; as a country, Russians have not achieved the level of technology that Japan has. Don't get me wrong, and don't start comparing Soviets and Japanese. Russia is not Soviet Union, it is a mere shell of the former superpower. Look at the economies of the two countries and notice what they depend upon. Japanese are way-up in the value chain and export high-tech goods whereas Russians rely on commodity exports like oil.
Both US and Russia had alternative propulsion system for sub but at present they are not practical for the next 10-20 years. Any way are priority must to get the ToT for the necessary equipment and make the dock for next gen of ships
 

Bahamut

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Apparently the Japanese people don't like bloodshed. (Don't know how that works out though, look at a bunch of Japanese anime, they are so damn dark and gory :laugh:)
The Japanese people I know only like bloodshed in Anime , they are to peace loving .For ex when ISIS executed two citizen there was huge protest as Abe as said that he would aid the war against ISIS.T
 

Kunal Biswas

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This is where you get things wrong ..

Furthermore, China has more money to spend on research and education. It will produce more advanced technologies than India. It will repeat the situation in-between Russia and USA during the Cold War, producing technologies that even the United States would find a challenge to reproduce.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Nothing from official source, Take this news with pinch of salt ..
 

busesaway

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The Japanese people I know only like bloodshed in Anime , they are to peace loving .For ex when ISIS executed two citizen there was huge protest as Abe as said that he would aid the war against ISIS.T
It's to do with Indian culture. The biggest ally of Abe is Japan's right-wing Buddhist party, and the party is supportive of "self-defense" since Hinduism/Buddhism supports war only in self-defense. A lot of Japanese people seriously dislike war of any kind...
 

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Navy aims to induct first indigenous aircraft carrier by 2018

The Navy on Wednesday said it has set a target of 2018 for inducting its first indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) and is “seriously considering” about having a second such ship.

Indian navy has set the target of having 212 ships in its fleet by 2027 which will be a “real challenge” and there is a need to work “very hard” for it, Vice Admiral (Controller Warship Production and Acquisition) G S Pabby told reporters.

The government is seriously considering IAC-2 and it is in “concept” stage, he said. The Information Exchange Annex signed between India and the US will benefit the navy in its IAC-1 project, Pabby said.

“Since the Americans have a good experience as they have commissioned a large number of ships, we are hoping that we will draw from their experience,” the senior navy officer said.

For getting technologies available with the US, an agreement and protocol for sharing information — maintaining its confidentiality and integrity — was needed to be signed. The Information Exchange Annex is that protocol.

Since then, a team of senior US Navy officials has visited the shipyard at Cochin last month to help with some issues in the IAC-1.

Contracts for transfer of technology about the Mine Countermeasures Vessels (MCMV) or minesweepers should be signed soon, he said.
 

Filtercoffee

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Doesn't do justice to make in the Republic of India I guess. But Rus is adamant on goose feeding so can't complain.
 

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