Russia Offers Nuclear Aircraft Carrier

[sorcerer]

India, Russia defence talks make sense


It did not make much difference but to keep the Indian rulers in good humour, the Obama administration made a departure from its past practice and modified the military logistics agreement, Logistics Support Agreement (LSA) to Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA). The USA has a standard draft text of military logistics agreement to be signed by the countries. Since the Obama administration badly needed on their side and was also aware of the criticism Narendra Modi and his government will have to face for allying with the US, the standard draft was replaced by a new summary text.

Obviously India preferring to ignore its new friend and rearing to sign a defence deal worth millions of dollars with Russia during the summit level meeting between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin scheduled to take place in October in Goa is significant. The deals that are to be signed include purchase of S-400 air defense missile system, IL-78 multi-role tanker transport by India and the joint upgrading of the SU30MKI and Kamov 28. Naturally the question of what made India look towards Russia arises.


Nevertheless an insight into the recent developments will make it explicit that four factors prevailed upon the Modi government to look for alternate. First, while US was unwilling to offer help to India in nuclear propulsion for the proposed construction of its largest-ever warship, the 65,000-tonne aircraft carrier INS Vishal, last week, a Russian delegation visiting New Delhi offered the Indian Navy Russia’s latest supercarrier design, dubbed Project 23000E or Shtorm (Storm). A Russian diplomat based in India confirmed that an offer has been made. This 65,000-ton supercarrier, the second ship of the Vikrant-class, will feature “significant design changes from the lead vessel, the INS Vikrant, including possible nuclear propulsion and Catapult Assisted Take-Off But Arrested Recovery (CATOBAR) and Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch Systems (EMALS).

http://www.freepressjournal.in/analysis/india-russia-defence-talks-make-sense-arun-srivastava/924697

 

[sorcerer]

Krylov centre awaits order to develop aircraft carrier from India

The Krylov Centre, which has prepared a conceptual design for the ‘Storm,’ is waiting for a nod from India to begin work on a new aircraft carrier for the Indian Navy.

The Krylov State Research Centre is expecting to receive an order for development of a new aircraft carrier for the Indian Navy, Yuri Eremin, Head of Department for development of the military-technical cooperation centre told Tass at the "Army 2016" forum.


Russia offers nuclear aircraft carrier to India

He said the company had developed a conceptual design of the 23000E "Storm" aircraft carrier. The ship’s displacement would be around 95 thousand tons; the aviation group will comprise 65 aircraft. The power plant could be nuclear. Additionally, two parachute ejector mechanisms are provided on the ship.

"India and China act as possible foreign partners on this ship. Primarily it is India and we hope that they will order their third aircraft carrier from us, and there are certain grounds for that," said Eremin.

He said experts at the Krylov Centre held a presentation of the "Storm" for the Indian Navy’s Commanders in India.

"The Indian customers certainly have an interest in it," said Eremin.

If the project is approved, the Neva Design Bureau is likely to be involved in the project, Eremin said.


The Neva Design Bureau is already working with India for servicing of the "Vikramaditya" aircraft carrier (the former "Admiral Gorshkov") and to build the "Vikrant" aircraft carrier.

It was reported earlier that work on the new aircraft carrier, named "Vishal", started in India in 2012. It is expected that its displacement will be 65 thousand tons (compared to 40 thousand tons in "Vikrant"). The ship can be fitted with a nuclear power plant.

First published in Russian by TASS.

http://in.rbth.com/economics/defenc...to-develop-aircraft-carrier-from-india_629109

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Looks like Russians are really desperate for $$$.

 

[sorcerer]

^^
Who is not desperate for $$$$s???!!!???!!

 

[Dark Sorrow]

^^
Who is not desperate for $$$$s???!!!???!!

Sir, what is your take on this issue?

 

[sorcerer]

With the oceans becoming vital for economy and many nations(ASEAN) wanting India to play the much bold and lead role in the IOR and Pacific.. Not just Indian interests but Indian international diplomacy require a mainstay in the form of a powerful Indian Navy.
Shying away from Responsibility will be others Opportunity.

As usual...Not really sure if US could provide the much hyped EMALS and other techs..US has a very poor track record of DEPENDABILITY..
and Dependability is the MUCH needed stuff when it comes to critical technologies at crucial stage..not arm-twisting which is America's proven track record.

India and US can move ahead together for mutual and convergent interests just like many bilateral agreements many other nations are having...other than that giving an advantage in the hands of USA is NOT GOOD!

Russia, so far has provided India with tech..has ongoing projects..up gradations and the association is seamless at many levels.
IMO..a serious consideration and preference should be given to the Russian offer.
There could be objections that Russia has not built a super carrier YET!! and all but well..if India could pitch into a co-project sort of thing on the Aircraft carrier with Russia..the returns on it would be manifold on a long run and into the future where India has to take care of itself ,its carriers and with an ocean of interests to protect.

 

[Scarface]

I find this highly unlikely,
IN wants CATOBAR and EMALS for it's new Carrier,now I'm not saying Russia can't develop such technology but the Americans have experience in CATOBAR system and are the only country pursuing EMALS , they are the only real candidate for India's futuristic aircraft carriers demands

Additionally,to call it a "top candidate" is too much optimism

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Also the question remains where the carrier will be built. If India pays this much money then India should build the carrier in its local dock instead financing Russian to modernize their dock.
If local Indian industry and Indian R&D is not benefiting from this endeavor their is no point of getting in this deal. We can very well survive without a carrier.

 

[sorcerer]

I find this highly unlikely,
IN wants CATOBAR and EMALS for it's new Carrier,now I'm not saying Russia can't develop such technology but the Americans have experience in CATOBAR system and are the only country pursuing EMALS , they are the only real candidate for India's futuristic aircraft carriers demands

Additionally,to call it a "top candidate" is too much optimism

We see talks about CATOBAR and EMALS on Vikrant..as offered by Russia. If India could work with them on such an Innovative project... Good.


Moscow has started work on an electromagnetic catapult launch system (EMALS) similar to those found onboard the U.S. Navy’s new Gerald R. Ford-class (CVN-78) carriers. A Russian EMALS prototype is apparently being tested at the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute (TsAGI) at the Zhukovsky airfield outside Moscow.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russia-moves-ahead-building-new-aircraft-carriers-14912

 

[busesaway]

I think it is advantageous for India to obtain a supercarrier. While I disagree with spending stupid amounts of money on military and I support a peaceful path to solving conflicts:

1) I support efforts to diversify India's military import partners. By having Russia as a key importer, India can secure it's defense, and also look to countries such as China to import military hardware from.
2) A super-carrier will help India project it's military to a larger area of the earth, as countries such as China have the ability to pull cultural and economic ties to project its military through bases. It would also gain favor with island countries in terms of defense treaties.
3) I have always supported strengthening the navy, because it combines many aspects of military (naval, aircraft, soldiers, nuclear deterrent, etc...)

My only reservation is that I consider a devolution of military powers to be paramount to a strong union. I presume that a federal military force would need to exist alongside state military forces, or that the supercarrier would be funded through mutual consent and mutual funding agreed upon by individual states.

+ Where India can gain favor with it's neighbors is through showing that being an ally of India is profitable for the defense of their little country. India needs to show that it will use it's military capabilities to defend their nations and protect their cultures.

 

[sorcerer]

I think it is advantageous for India to obtain a supercarrier. While I disagree with spending stupid amounts of money on military and I support a peaceful path to solving conflicts:

1) I support efforts to diversify India's military import partners. By having Russia as a key importer, India can secure it's defense, and also look to countries such as China to import military hardware from..

India and china has boundary disputes and china uses the terrorist nation pakistan against India.
So..Are you saying India should get cheap chinese copies of military hardware for money and then china use that money against India through pakistan in the form of terrorism.

china is using Indian Land which is occupied by pakistan disregarding all Indian concerns for its CPEC project.


I liked your brew of Utopia it looks nice..but not my cup

 

[Scarface]

We see talks about CATOBAR and EMALS on Vikrant..as offered by Russia. If India could work with them on such an Innovative project... Good.


Moscow has started work on an electromagnetic catapult launch system (EMALS) similar to those found onboard the U.S. Navy’s new Gerald R. Ford-class (CVN-78) carriers. A Russian EMALS prototype is apparently being tested at the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute (TsAGI) at the Zhukovsky airfield outside Moscow.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russia-moves-ahead-building-new-aircraft-carriers-14912

As I said in my previous post,I don't doubt Russia's capability to develop this technology,but their lack of experience in this department makes it highly unlikely that we will choose that option when we already have the option of choosing the experienced side.

 

[Bahamut]

Also the question remains where the carrier will be built. If India pays this much money then India should build the carrier in its local dock instead financing Russian to modernize their dock.
If local Indian industry and Indian R&D is not benefiting from this endeavor their is no point of getting in this deal. We can very well survive without a carrier.

Carrier will be build in India ,what is being talked is design transfer.Also no dock in India can presently build such a large ship ,from what I know Russian have started construction of new dock to build the carrier ,so India can also have access to design of Dock along with necessary equipment.

 

[sorcerer]

Also the question remains where the carrier will be built. If India pays this much money then India should build the carrier in its local dock instead financing Russian to modernize their dock.
If local Indian industry and Indian R&D is not benefiting from this endeavor their is no point of getting in this deal. We can very well survive without a carrier.

Absolutely...India should be a CO DEVELOPER in this endeavor with Russia..If India has to benefit on a long run and protect its interests independently+support the nations which favors India..India should build awesome knowledge-base by co development.
Again..if India is just a buyer and user thats not going to look good in posturing...the much needed teeth is in own capability.

We have a host of Arab states who is like that.--buy and use.


Survive..Yes..but we should see that there are a number of nations which look UPTO India to play the lead role in the region and protect the interests of all, be it economical or tactical.
So "surviving" should not be India's future agenda but being a serious player who could call the shots in the region must be.

A growing global economy should stick to global aspirations!!!

 

[busesaway]

I don't think India has any strong powerful allies. Why is Russia or the United States considered to be any more of a strong ally than China? When has the United States or Russia stepped in to defend India or its allies?

The border disputes between China and India are minor. There are nowhere near the tensions inbetween India and Pakistan. The primary dispute between China and India are over financial matters, and Russia and the USA aren't any more friendly in this ball park.

Chinese military hardware is cheap and technologically advanced - they'll be coming up with new ideas that challenge Russia and NATO. But I don't consider it to be wise to buy a significant portion of Indian military from China, hence why I think India should diversify it's military partners in order to make it more viable for India to buy military hardware from China.

India should particularly look to learning from the Chinese through military knowledge exchanges, rather than simply avoiding China altogether.

 

[busesaway]

Carrier will be build in India ,what is being talked is design transfer.Also no dock in India can presently build such a large ship ,from what I know Russian have started construction of new dock to build the carrier ,so India can also have access to design of Dock along with necessary equipment.

If the ship is built in India, then I think that the military to procure the designs and build it. The project will bring valuable money and knowledge to the local defense companies, and bring with it a closer relationship with a strategic nation that has historically maintained pleasant relations with some enemies of India.

I stress that diversifying India's military import sources are as important as maintaining allies. India does not have any allies as strong as the United States or China.

 

[Bahamut]

If the ship is built in India, then I think that the military to procure the designs and build it. The project will bring valuable money and knowledge to the local defense companies, and bring with it a closer relationship with a strategic nation that has historically maintained pleasant relations with some enemies of India.

I stress that diversifying India's military import sources are as important as maintaining allies. India does not have any allies as strong as the United States or China.

Sir the Russian have the experience and JV will reduce time and cost

 

[sorcerer]

I don't think India has any strong powerful allies. Why is Russia or the United States considered to be any more of a strong ally than China? When has the United States or Russia stepped in to defend India or its allies?

This is the Bitch please moment!!

India has powerful allies...just google on the INTERNET on India's foreign relations.
Russia or US is considered powerful allies than china because they have PROVEN Powerful TECHNOLOGY and India can benefit by associating with them.
BUT with china.
china is cheap who copies from RUSSIA and US.
Who would want to buy cheap equipments when you can get thr ORIGINAL from real brands and real manufacturers.
china can sell their cheap rolex and Gucci in mil.hardware to Pakistan.

In recent developments.
US is supporting India's bid for NSG ..so is Russia.
while
china is supporting pakistan..a terrorist state in its bid for NSG.




china...Ally!!!
Do you know china works through the terrorist state of pakistan to counter India.
Do you know china promotes Naxals in India and arms them for civil unrest.
Do you know china proposed the plan of CPEC through Indian land which is occupied by Kashmir.
Do you know china supports terrorist groups that works against India
Do you know china supports NoKos Nuke programs with pakistan against India.

The border disputes between China and India are minor. There are nowhere near the tensions inbetween India and Pakistan. The primary dispute between China and India are over financial matters, and Russia and the USA aren't any more friendly in this ball park.

India and china situation is NOT financial..Where did you get that part?
The primary fight between India and china is chinas support for pak sponsored terrorism.
china occupying Indian land etc etc..
Russia and US pact is purely military and economics.

Chinese military hardware is cheap and technologically advanced - they'll be coming up with new ideas that challenge Russia and NATO. But I don't consider it to be wise to buy a significant portion of Indian military from China, hence why I think India should diversify it's military partners in order to make it more viable for India to buy military hardware from China.

chinese military hardware is copied and substandard. Even china dont use their EXPORT variants..
china makes equipments for nations that CANT AFFORD to pay for stuffs like pakistan.
china cant challenge Russia nor NATO.

We have better vendors like Israel, Russia, USA, France, UK etc etc and India has the money to buy quality stuffs and industry to make stuffs with ToT.

India should particularly look to learning from the Chinese through military knowledge exchanges, rather than simply avoiding China altogether.

India is already doing an awesome job of cornering china through its knowledge and understanding on chinese deceptive diplomacy and chinese pussy military tactic of hiding behind paki ass.
Only thing that can be learned from china is to TALK IN FORKED TONGUE..India would NEVER want to do that.

...


WTH..50 cents batting for chinese mil. sales to India..
This is really hilarious..
Is china so desperate to sell to India!!!

 

[sorcerer]

If the ship is built in India, then I think that the military to procure the designs and build it. The project will bring valuable money and knowledge to the local defense companies, and bring with it a closer relationship with a strategic nation that has historically maintained pleasant relations with some enemies of India.

I stress that diversifying India's military import sources are as important as maintaining allies. India does not have any allies as strong as the United States or China.

china does NOT have any allies other than pakistan and NoKo.
With the rest of the world china is pitching a fight..china has dispute with almost every nation on chinas periphery..
The SPAT with US is well known.

 

[busesaway]

I'll just say this:
China is a rising superpower.

India's relationship with Russia has been strong despite it's tendency to support enemies, because Russia was the only major non-NATO superpower.

China is not only a rising superpower, but also a rising superpower with huge cultural ties to India, and a predominantly pro-Han political direction to everything.

China is able to produce military hardware cheaper than any other nation, and if it's technology is built in India, it will be even cheaper.

Furthermore, China has more money to spend on research and education. It will produce more advanced technologies than India. It will repeat the situation in-between Russia and USA during the Cold War, producing technologies that even the United States would find a challenge to reproduce.

India needs to work with China. While India needs to play safe and make sure that it doesn't "give away" its military to China in a similar manner to Europe's relationship with the USA, it shouldn't avoid China altogether. The aim for India is for a closer relationship with China built on historic Hindu/Buddhist ties and peaceful economic growth for both countries.