Russia: No SU-35 discussion/talks/plan happened with Pakistan

Illusive

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Disqualifying American contenders from MMRCA has nothing to do with them selling anything to Pakistan. If that were true, we whould not have gotten those C-17 and C-130s, after the US sold and subsidized US military hardware to Pakistan for decades.

The reason why those American fighters were rejected is because of US sanctions itch, and perhaps the strings attached. Even after we have acquired transporters, India will always maintain a fleet of Ilyushin-76, because that is the only platform guaranteed to be free of sanctions at the time of war.
Exactly, there are many other Indo Russian collaborations in other spheres, this news was generated to extract negativity or put a doubt on Indo Russian relationship and putting pressure on US to sell the blocked F16's out of which 2 were released recently.

Su35 would have been out of question since Russia would fear of India cancelling other future projects like probable subs, Pak Fa, tanks, helicopters, MRTA.
 

pmaitra

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Exactly, there are many other Indo Russian collaborations in other spheres, this news was generated to extract negativity or put a doubt on Indo Russian relationship and putting pressure on US to sell the blocked F16's out of which 2 were released recently.

Su35 would have been out of question since Russia would fear of India cancelling other future projects like probable subs, Pak Fa, tanks, helicopters, MRTA.
That, and practicality.

France has also sold stuff to Pakistan. Has that stopped India from buying from France? Now replace France with US, Israel, Russia, Japan, etc.. It is true for all of them.

One has to be practical and not get emotional. Weapons sales are big business, and no country is going to starve the employees of their defense companies when potential for sales exist.
 

Illusive

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That, and practicality.

France has also sold stuff to Pakistan. Has that stopped India from buying from France? Now replace France with US, Israel, Russia, Japan, etc.. It is true for all of them.

One has to be practical and not get emotional. Weapons sales are big business, and no country is going to starve the employees of their defense companies when potential for sales exist.
Exactly, i've been seeing this a lot lately from Indians, acting like pakis. We don't do justice anymore to the Chanakya's tag we are often given.
Its important that we ignore such BS news because we only making it popular and playing into the hands for specific purpose this news was built.
 

Yumdoot

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What I fail to understand is how Russians supplying Su-35 to Pakis, is not beneficial to us.

What would you rather have? J-20 in their hands? or JSF? Or do you suppose the Pakis would be flying JF-17 all their life.

Besides people just fail to read up even the brochures these days. There is so much information lying out their in mere brochures. There was a time that brochure reading was looked down upon. But seems like even that was better than this.

What is the fear about, In terms of Paki ability to strike or defend?
The Radar/AEWC coverage is so intense from our side (in L-Band) and the strategic depth of Pakis so shallow, that Su-35 would be visible the moment it takes off. Even if the Pakis decide on a lo-lo-lo profile. With clear blue skies most of the year round, along the international border the whole concept of threat from a hypothetical Paki Su-35 is laughable. We don't even need help from foreigners to do all this.

The whole debate is so switched over to the demented side that there is nobody, willing to take questions. We are expected to take it for granted that Russians are about to tell all the Su-30MKI secrets to Pakis. Damn it, MKI has large parts that are not even Russian to begin with.

Russian wishlist is to tame Pakistan. How does that extend to threatening India? Russians trying to tame Pakis is not unreasonable considering, the history of their relationships, the narco-terror trade and the fact that Pakis would be getting into SCO. Russian experience with Pakis is not very different from ours. I don't particularly mind the Russians trying to tame Pakistan. The Americans and Chinese are already there, why not Russia too? In fact we Indians are also there inside Pakistan but only covertly. Let the Russians get in overtly.

Look if Indian intention is to rely on US-Saudi Axis then we cannot begrudge the Russians walking over completely to Paki side. But if the idea is to balance things then we can give and take things with the Russians on the Paki issue. We may be overlooking possible benefits of this thing.

And whether we like it or not, the SCO will come up and it serves our interests well that the full burden of neighbourhood (ie. Asia) is brought to bear onto the Pakis. Today you just get lip service from UN and two-timed weapons supplies from US. As a matter of rule, the neighbourhood pressure is always greater than an pressure designed around the theory of overseas influencer.

Hell even the Americans have warmed up to India only because they are progressively getting more and more irrelevant around Asia. As countries get lesser power on their own they begin to think about cooperating. Russia does not even shares border with us to be able threaten us. If we work properly then there is no reason why we cannot have fruitful relations with both US and Russia. Vice-versa holds true for US and Russia too, they too can have all parties as their collaborators.

India is a big country & we should start thinking like one. Just observe what the Americans and Russians themselves are doing. Americans attacked the Russians by stealth in Ukraine but all through the crisis, the Russian have still not stopped the Northern Supply Route, officially. While the Charbahar Zaranj route lies unused.

I will repeat the US fanboy jumla to them - there are not permanent friends, only permanent interests :p.
 
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Zarvan

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@Neo @Zarvan @Raja.pakistani @musalman

BC Pakis are nowhere to be seen here even after calling multiple times to comment and accept they spread LIES all over internet and working for ISI.

Kahan mar gaye Pakis? On pee-d-f Pakis are getting super trolled by Indians on SU-35 topic. :rofl:

They have lot of time to post new LIES about Pakis and anti-India stuff but ran away like a pussy.

This is the REALITY of Pakis... Pakistan is a PROVEN Liar and Terrorist ILLEGAL state.


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Embassy is either ignorant or deliberately lying talks are going on and minimum number under discussion is 26
 

Illusive

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Embassy is either ignorant or deliberately lying talks are going on and minimum number under discussion is 26
Even if its talks, pak wont be getting any, 26 is too few for Russia to jeopardize future sales with India. Your AF will go for J31, or some chinese jets, your wasting time on something improbable as Su35.
 

thethinker

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Embassy is either ignorant or deliberately lying talks are going on and minimum number under discussion is 26
Sure. :pound:

So basically :

Russian embassy who posts official statement denying sale of Su-35 is ignorant and of lower credibility compared to anonymous Pakis on Internet who spread theories based on hearsay and ISI funded madrassa news.

BTW, here is the official statement put by Russian embassy website in India that clearly mentions denial of such military co-operation:

http://rusembindia.com/home/embassy...ission-of-the-russian-rmbassy-mr-denis-alipov

There is a lot of talk about Russia-Pakistan cooperation. There have been high-profile visits on both sides and agreements have been signed for defence and military cooperation. How do you view this growing relationship in view of your historical ties with India?

Relations, which Russia develops with countries of the world, are not directed against anybody. Particularly, Russia’s policy in South Asia is consistently based on principles of promotion of regional stability and non-interference into the affairs of sovereign states and bilateral disputes. India is our historic and special and privileged strategic partner, and we have always been mindful and will continue to consider in the first place the Indian security concerns. This is our natural choice. The unique level of mutual trust and understanding on almost every issue of the international agenda should leave no scope for doubt about the future of the Russian-Indian ties even for sceptics.

Hence the relations with Pakistan while being independent in nature will never have any designs against India. Islamabad is a very important player in joint efforts to maintain regional stability, especially in view of the deteriorating situation in Afghanistan and growing threats of international terrorism fuelled by ISIS and rampant drug production. These factors require collective counteraction and target-oriented capacity building. And these are exactly the reasons for our recent arrangements with Islamabad on the supply of four Mi-35 helicopters. I would also like to respond to the idle talk and pure invention of the media by reiterating that Russia has not discussed and does not have any plans to sell Su-35 aircraft to Pakistan.

 

Mad Indian

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But they already have pending orders for 200+ Su-30MKI units, and MiG-29K for two carriers (Vikramaditya and Vikrant). You think South Block will be motivated to buy 250+ jets from a country selling the same jets to Pakistan? We practically disqualified American contenders from MMRCA citing the same reason (that they deal with Pakistan). How is this not duplicitous?
AFAIK, the American fighters were rejected on the grounds of performance and not geopolitics. Anyway, I don't see how or why Indian govt will cancel weapons deal with Rus considering they are the only country as of now willing to cooperate for co developing a 5 gen fighter. May be it will affect the future sales- 1-2 decades from now but no one can deny the changed equilibrium in Rus-US- India affairs
 

tarunraju

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AFAIK, the American fighters were rejected on the grounds of performance and not geopolitics. Anyway, I don't see how or why Indian govt will cancel weapons deal with Rus considering they are the only country as of now willing to cooperate for co developing a 5 gen fighter. May be it will affect the future sales- 1-2 decades from now but no one can deny the changed equilibrium in Rus-US- India affairs
Flankers give us a technical edge over Pakistan, and Flankers in Pakistani hands blunt our edge. Any confrontation with Pakistan going forward will be qualitative, with quantity only serving strategic goals, not tactical. In layman terms, the wars will be so short, swift, with such narrow goals, that no more than a couple of squadrons from either side will be engaged in tactical roles. Given this, even a single squadron of Pakistani Sukhois would blunt our edge, either forcing an escalation, or deterrence, both of which are bad for us.

Russians willing to sell Flankers can hence not be seen as fair-trade for us buying support aircraft from the Americans. Russians didn't have modern alternatives to the C17, the C130J, or P8I.
 

Mad Indian

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Flankers give us a technical edge over Pakistan, and Flankers in Pakistani hands blunt our edge. Any confrontation with Pakistan going forward will be qualitative, with quantity only serving strategic goals, not tactical. In layman terms, the wars will be so short, swift, with such narrow goals, that no more than a couple of squadrons from either side will be engaged in tactical roles. Given this, even a single squadron of Pakistani Sukhois would blunt our edge, either forcing an escalation, or deterrence, both of which are bad for us.

Russians willing to sell Flankers can hence not be seen as fair-trade for us buying support aircraft from the Americans. Russians didn't have modern alternatives to the C17, the C130J, or P8I.
I am not disagreeing to what you are saying, but noting the ground reality that we are stuck with Rus whether we admit it or not.

Fgfa will be a f22 equivalent and only Russians are going to give us that. That's why even if Rus sells su35, it won't stop India Rus cooperation in anyway in the foreseeable future
 

blueblood

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So Russia is not selling Su-35 to Pakis afterall.

But respecting the truest of DFI traditions, lets overreact. Burn the Russian embassy to ground and send Russians in Goa to internment camps.

@Screambowl @Rowdy
 

rock127

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Embassy is either ignorant or deliberately lying talks are going on and minimum number under discussion is 26
That's a really STUPID argument and expected from a Paki.

Paki Logic: First tell a LIE and when caught then call the news source as a LIE.

btw Pakis kept telling Osama was not in Pakistan but world know where was he living in his harem of women/porn and goats.

Pakistan is a synonym for Terrorism and Lies.

 

Zarvan

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Even if its talks, pak wont be getting any, 26 is too few for Russia to jeopardize future sales with India. Your AF will go for J31, or some chinese jets, your wasting time on something improbable as Su35.
Russia know what it is doing SU-35 is on the cards
 

rock127

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Russia know what it is doing SU-35 is on the cards
It would be your "S-300" forever on the cards. :lol:



It will forever remain on cards you beggars aint getting SU-35
Why do you puncture the false happiness balloon of Pakis?

Joo evil baniya... joo can't see a Paki happy even if it's based on hawai kila.
 

Yumdoot

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Russia know what it is doing SU-35 is on the cards
Haan le le yaar tu Su-35 le le.

Sukhois have been flying in China since decades and that does not change things around town.

So enjoy.

But what happened to your Amriki kit? You people used to get it for free. Did US charge you too much in other ways. :p
 

sorcerer

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@Neo @Zarvan @Raja.pakistani @musalman



Kahan mar gaye Pakis? On pee-d-f Pakis are getting super trolled by Indians on SU-35 topic. :rofl:

They have lot of time to post new LIES about Pakis and anti-India stuff but ran away like a pussy.

This is the REALITY of Pakis... Pakistan is a PROVEN Liar and Terrorist ILLEGAL state.
Somebody should post it into the pakistan lies and denials thread.
 

Nicky G

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Russians willing to sell Flankers can hence not be seen as fair-trade for us buying support aircraft from the Americans. Russians didn't have modern alternatives to the C17, the C130J, or P8I.
I agree but what if we buy F-35 for our carriers? Does Russia respond to that in a different manner?

I am not disagreeing to what you are saying, but noting the ground reality that we are stuck with Rus whether we admit it or not.

Fgfa will be a f22 equivalent and only Russians are going to give us that. That's why even if Rus sells su35, it won't stop India Rus cooperation in anyway in the foreseeable future
Sadly, that's true. Add nuke sub lease, along with help in development of our own, and the assistance I'm sure we still get for other things including missiles that no other nation could or would be willing to provide us with, we are stuck with Russia for the immediate future.

5th gen is critical as a joint collaboration if we are ever going to learn that for ourselves in time and not waste as we did with 4th gen LCA.

http://in.rbth.com/articles/2011/10...y_india_and_russia_jointly_develop_fgfa_13132
 

The enlightened

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One fact is apparent. The Russians are moving away from being India's top seller.
If you have been living under a rock for the past................5 years, Russia was already surpassed by Israel and USA as India's top seller. OTOH India is still Russia's biggest buyer.
 

A chauhan

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pak wont be getting any, 26 is too few for Russia to jeopardize future sales with India.
Well said ! you grabbed the crux of the matter !!!
 

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