Russia: No SU-35 discussion/talks/plan happened with Pakistan

[I_PLAY_BAD]

One fact is apparent. The Russians are moving away from being India's top seller.

Well that is a far-fetched statement. Russia is looking for more buyers is the apt statement to describe the situation.

 

[A chauhan]

I knew it since Pakistan has no money for SU-35, Nanga nahayega kya aur nichodega kya !

 

[Illusive]

One fact is apparent. The Russians are moving away from being India's top seller.

It will change again after PakFa deal. Everything else India is moving towards indigenization gradually.

 

[Yumdoot]

I think that Russia is backtracking from it's previous position after it bit the Bear back in it's @$$.

It, what? What bit the Bear back in its ass?

US is the de-facto status quo superpower, and we may have to tolerate it's dealings with our enemies because of our geo-political compulsions, but we do not face similar compulsions while dealing with Putin's Russia.

Does that mean India, is abala/bechara/helpless/useless. Is that the case you are trying to make?

For those interested and with longer memories - do you remember the hue and cry that was raised when the Americans Minister Casper Weinberger came to India promised that they would help develop Indian defence industry and then promptly the next of his return announced a massive military package for Pakis which included an AWACS supply ostensibly for keepiing tabs on Soviet aircrafts in Afghanistan. Rajiv Gandhi was the sucker looking for these things from US instead Weinberger gave him a #@$!^&.

It was obvious the AWACS was for use against India. Afghanistan-Pakistan border has such a long shadow zone that AWACS would have a damn hard time preventing the Soviets from doing anything.

Unfortunately for us the Soviets had only just made their first generation AWACS and they were not exactly sure if they would like to offer it to India. (Just like FGFA today, where the Russians want to reduce our workshare.)

So Rajiv like a true munna raised a hue and cry and proved to the world that we are better Ameriki munnas then Pakis were. Funnily Zia was focused on Nukes and declared that Pakis have no security threat from Soviets. Pakis acted smarter this one time and Gen. Sundarji later almost praised them for that patience.

The reality was that American newspapers were reporting that the Pakis had already tested in 1986, before Weinberger came to India. Obviously the Americans were turning a fait-accompli (Paki nukes supplied by Chinese) into an opportunity (undermining India). Americans fed that info to their own press to make it look ominous to India.

Regan obviously hated Paki Nukes, because a Paki with Chinese Nukes, meant losing Pakis as American Munna. So the ever wise Americans thought - lets kill two stones with one bird - titilate pakis with new stuff and threaten Rajiv into submission. Before this date Rajiv wanted a Nuke himself. After this date in 1988 Rajiv stated in UN how world should be nuclear free etc etc. Rajiv exuded the confidence level of Rahul Gandhi. American bet did not fall too far. Rajiv abandoned his own Nuke test ambitions, proved he was an American munna.

Prior to this strange merry-go-round, the resident wisdom was American-Pakistani-Chinese Axis being a threat to India. Which they were. But after this point Americans became lily white friends of the downtrodden abala/majboor/worthless Indians . And Rajiv played a part in this. Much later we got to know of how the Congress Party of LBS/Indira steal had gotten compromised.

Americans never wanted to supply AWACS to anybody. The true effectiveness of AWACS was seen by the world for the first time only a few years back in Yom Kippur War 1973 and supplying it to Pakis would have been like supplying F-22 Raptor to Chad in year 2000.

Much later we got the AWACS as the world saw that we were intent on making it ourselves and making progress.

Lesson:
1) Never salivate
2) Go indigenous, only then we will get everything offered on a platter
3) Never believe an American
4) Media (MSM & SM) is American tool
5) Russians are willing to supply the latest but not part with IPR and they are not averse to we mixing-and-matching things so long as their IPR is not messed around with.
6) Stop feeling like an abala/majboor/bechara.

 

[rockey 71]

I knew it since Pakistan has no money for SU-35, Nanga nahayega kya aur nichodega kya !

I doubt PAF will be constrained by the cost. Nope, Pakistan can manage the funding required. Fyi, even BAF is opting for SU-35 over the SU-30 that is being offered.

 

[Sylex21]

I doubt PAF will be constrained by the cost.

This doesn't make any sense. Cost is the #1 limiting factory for every military in the world. PAF will absolutely be constrained by cost.

even BAF is opting for SU-35 over the SU-30 that is being offered.

BAF and PAF have very different requirements. In the BAF, top of the line jet fighters can be purchased in small numbers and are little more than glorified toys. BAF could afford to buy the best if they only induct 18-30 of them. In the PAF they need quality and quantity and need to focus on the best bang for the buck, they don't have the freedom to play around with expensive toys.

 

[rock127]

I have heard PAF bloggers claim that SU-35 will be a Sino-Pak acquisition.

And Russia would be happy to be out of business.

You heard from Paki bloggers and believed such stupid claim?

I doubt PAF will be constrained by the cost. Nope, Pakistan can manage the funding required. Fyi, even BAF is opting for SU-35 over the SU-30 that is being offered.

Yeah we all know Pakis have trillion $$$ economy and would not mind few billions on costly planes.

Your comments are strange and not making much sense.

 

[rock127]

Russia: No SU-35 discussion/talks/plan happened with Pakistan
@Neo @Raja.pakistani @Zarvan @musalman: Ok Pakis... again your LIES exposed here about SU-35.

@Neo @Raja.pakistani @Zarvan @musalman

What happened Pakis? No comments? Kya hua? Kuch to kaho? Bolti kyun band hai? Busy ho gaye ekdum?

 

[sabari]

If su35 is superior to other sukai than India would have buyer it at least in limited number . so I doute the performance of level su35 is less compared to su30 with westan electronic and increased level of composite used in su 30

 

[rock127]

So Russia making it clear and Pakistan exposed again about their LIES. Russia termed the SU-35 rumor as "Idle talk & Pure Invention" while Pakis were jumping 100 feet in air with false news spread by their ISI.
@Neo @Raja.pakistani @Zarvan @musalman: Ok Pakis... again your LIES exposed here about SU-35.

@Neo @Raja.pakistani @Zarvan @musalman : What happened Pakis? No comments? Kya hua? Kuch to kaho? Bolti kyun band hai? Busy ho gaye ekdum?

@Neo @Zarvan @Raja.pakistani @musalman



Kahan mar gaye Pakis? On pee-d-f Pakis are getting super trolled by Indians on SU-35 topic.

They have lot of time to post new LIES about Pakis and anti-India stuff but ran away like a pussy.

This is the REALITY of Pakis... Pakistan is a PROVEN Liar and Terrorist ILLEGAL state.


@Abhijat @A chauhan @Alien @alphacentury @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @blueblood @brational @Bangalorean @Blackwater @bose @cobra commando @DingDong @DFI_COAS @ersakthivel @gpawar @hit&run @jackprince @Kharavela @Illusive @I_PLAY_BAD @LETHALFORCE @Lions Of Punjab @maomao @Mad Indian @OneGrimPilgrim @Peter @pmaitra @Razor @raja696 @Rowdy @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @sydsnyper @Srinivas_K @Screambowl @sorcerer @Simple_Guy @Sylex21 @wickedone @tarunraju @TrueSpirit2 @thethinker @VIP @Vishwarupa @VIP @Varahamihira @roma

 

[thethinker]

@Neo @Zarvan @Raja.pakistani @musalman



Kahan mar gaye Pakis? On pee-d-f Pakis are getting super trolled by Indians on SU-35 topic.

They have lot of time to post new LIES about Pakis and anti-India stuff but ran away like a pussy.

This is the REALITY of Pakis... Pakistan is a PROVEN Liar and Terrorist ILLEGAL state.

They seem too busy posting news about Dalit killings in India or child sacrifices in India just for trolling.

They will now realize the hard way that two can play this game -

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...omy-news-discussion.2624/page-19#post-1085765

Fun times ahead. :biggrin2:

 

[jouni]

I wonder how many decades we see variations of Su_27...It has been pretty quiet on the PAK FA front...

 

[rock127]

I wonder how many decades we see variations of Su_27...It has been pretty quiet on the PAK FA front...

We called out Pakis and you appeared instantly and that too with a off-topic post.

 

[hit&run]

@Neo @Zarvan @Raja.pakistani @musalman

BC Pakis are nowhere to be seen here even after calling multiple times to comment and accept they spread LIES all over internet and working for ISI.

Kahan mar gaye Pakis? On pee-d-f Pakis are getting super trolled by Indians on SU-35 topic.

They have lot of time to post new LIES about Pakis and anti-India stuff but ran away like a pussy.

This is the REALITY of Pakis... Pakistan is a PROVEN Liar and Terrorist ILLEGAL state.


@Abhijat @A chauhan @Alien @alphacentury @Ancient Indian @anupamsurey @blueblood @brational @Bangalorean @Blackwater @bose @cobra commando @DingDong @DFI_COAS @ersakthivel @gpawar @hit&run @jackprince @Kharavela @Illusive @I_PLAY_BAD @LETHALFORCE @Lions Of Punjab @maomao @Mad Indian @OneGrimPilgrim @Peter @pmaitra @Razor @raja696 @Rowdy @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @sydsnyper @Srinivas_K @Screambowl @sorcerer @Simple_Guy @Sylex21 @wickedone @tarunraju @TrueSpirit2 @thethinker @VIP @Vishwarupa @VIP @Varahamihira @roma

Thanks for tagging me Rock. I have made my POV on this whole issue very clear. I would rather believe what Pakistanis are saying and start preparing myself to counter those weapons in advance.

Pakistanis will be stupid not to know how much money we can pump without any adverse effect on our economy. Doing such propaganda assuming their procurements will make India rush into arms race and go bankrupt is misread of India by part of Pakistan. Soon after SU-35 news many sane Pakistanis got worried that now India will be buying F-35.

Going on this latest update then there might have been something gone wrong with the deal, that now Russians are coming out to deny it outright; after initial leak of the deal that might have been mulled.

 

[pmaitra]

We called out Pakis and you appeared instantly and that too with a off-topic post.

Man, I literally laughed out loud when I read this comment.

 

[tarunraju]

Of course the Russians will deny it. They probably plan to sell Flankers to Pakistan through Chinese Shenyang bureau, where the airframe, engines, and avionics are Russian, but are assembled and sold under Shenyang's maker-plate.

Russians think Indians are that dumb.

 

[Mad Indian]

Of course the Russians will deny it. They probably plan to sell Flankers to Pakistan through Chinese Shenyang bureau, where the airframe, engines, and avionics are Russian, but are assembled and sold under Shenyang's maker-plate.

Russians think Indians are that dumb.

To be frank I don't see much reason for Russia to not engage Pakistanis. We are getting closer to KSA, Israel, USA etc and naturally our ties with Iran , China and Rus are going to have a new equilibrium based on that reality. Besides there must some fire to the Su35 sales considering that there was so much smoke about it..


Also, its worth noting that the Russian fan boys were saying the same thing reg Jf-17 as to why it won't happen as Russia won't approve the engines . We all know how it turned out.

 

[I_PLAY_BAD]

I wonder how many decades we see variations of Su_27...It has been pretty quiet on the PAK FA front...

For how many decades you have the same father ?
Tell me that ....

 

[tarunraju]

To be frank I don't see much reason for Russia to not engage Pakistanis. We are getting closer to KSA, Israel, USA etc and naturally our ties with Iran , China and Rus are going to have a new equilibrium based on that reality. Besides there must some fire to the Su35 sales considering that there was so much smoke about it..


Also, its worth noting that the Russian fan boys were saying the same thing reg Jf-17 as to why it won't happen as Russia won't approve the engines . We all know how it turned out.

But they already have pending orders for 200+ Su-30MKI units, and MiG-29K for two carriers (Vikramaditya and Vikrant). You think South Block will be motivated to buy 250+ jets from a country selling the same jets to Pakistan? We practically disqualified American contenders from MMRCA citing the same reason (that they deal with Pakistan). How is this not duplicitous?

 

[pmaitra]

But they already have pending orders for 200+ Su-30MKI units, and MiG-29K for two carriers (Vikramaditya and Vikrant). You think South Block will be motivated to buy 250+ jets from a country selling the same jets to Pakistan? We practically disqualified American contenders from MMRCA citing the same reason (that they deal with Pakistan). How is this not duplicitous?

Disqualifying American contenders from MMRCA has nothing to do with them selling anything to Pakistan. If that were true, we whould not have gotten those C-17 and C-130s, after the US sold and subsidized US military hardware to Pakistan for decades.

The reason why those American fighters were rejected is because of US sanctions itch, and perhaps the strings attached. Even after we have acquired transporters, India will always maintain a fleet of Ilyushin-76, because that is the only platform guaranteed to be free of sanctions at the time of war.