Russia links sale of S-400 to India confirming order of FGFA

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Yusuf, Oct 25, 2015.

  1. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    NEW DELHI — The Indian Air Force has asked the Ministry of Defence to buy unknown numbers of S-400 Triumf air defense systems from Russia, but Russian diplomats here said Moscow is unlikely to agree until India clarifies its position on the joint Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) program.

    A final agreement on development of the FGFA is still pending despite an initial agreement inked in 2010 because the Indian Air Force still has not finalized how many aircraft it would order, and because work-share issues between India and Russia on production of the FGFA are not settled. India will release its share of $10 billion toward development of the FGFA — which is based on the Russian T-50 platform and is in the prototype stage —only after final agreement is approved.

    A Russian diplomat, however, said Moscow wants greater clarity on whether the ruling Narendra Modi government would proceed with joint development of the FGFA or limit its purchases of the aircraft. The diplomat, however, would not say if there would be a trade-off between the S-400 and the FGFA deal.

    The Indian Air Force made a request to MoD early this month to buy the S-400 system, a Defence Ministry source said, adding that the request will be on Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar's wish list when he visits Moscow next month. India proposes to buy the S-400 through a government-to-government deal, the source added.

    The Air Force wants the S-400 to fill holes in its fledgling air defense systems and provide capability to strike multiple targets, including ballistic missiles and stealth aircraft, said an Air Force official. The S-400 Triumf can intercept and destroy airborne targets at a distance of up to 400 kilometers and simultaneously engage up to six targets.

    "The intention to go ahead with the purchase of S-400 Triumf indicates that the homegrown capability to build an effective anti-missile missile system is not in sight in the near future," said defense analyst Nitin Mehta.

    India is developing its own anti-missile system that includes the Prithvi for high-altitude interception (above 75 kilometers) and the Advanced system for low-altitude interception (below 15 kilometers).

    The first phase of the system, which will be able to kill ballistic missiles at a range of 2,000 kilometers, was scheduled to have been in operation by 2012. No official from the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which is developing the Prithvi system, would comment whether the system is in operation.

    The MoD source said that the second phase of the system, intended to provide the capability to kill missiles at a range of 5,000 kilometers, is now in development. The source would not comment on whether Phase 1 is in operation.

    In addition, India and Israel are developing a medium-range surface-to-air missile (MRSAM) project, which would have a range of 70 kilometers, but the project has been delayed by more than three years, and no MoD official would comment about when it would be completed.

    The Indo-Israeli MRSAM is being jointly developed by India's DRDO and Rafael and Israel Aerospace Industries of Israel.

    Another project being developed jointly with the Israelis is a long-range surface-to-air missile, which would have a range of more than 100 kilometers and is meant for the Indian Navy. This effort is also over two years behind schedule.

    http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...ale-s-400-india-fighter-development/74323986/


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  3. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Why haven't we still proceeded with FGFA program? Wouldn't it be beneficial for us? Even a dozen of 5th gen aircrafts will be a lot of help.
     
  4. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    So the news that Parrikar is pulling back his hands on FGFA seems true.
     
  5. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    India want 40% of work share in FGFA according to the $$ we contribute to the joint programme, but Russians are not ready to to this.If our work share would increase to 40% it would be a great help for our own stealth AMCA due to the technological know how we gained from FGFA.
     
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  6. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    That would be a rational choice and Parrikar may very well take it. When we have decided to go full speed ahead with AMCA, diverting resources - both in terms of talent and fund- would not be productive, particularly since FGFA is supposed to be only a derivative of PAK FA. The problem only is IAF's want for a double crewed fighter. But then, it can also be managed with a bit of modification on PAK FA which I doubt Russians will be reluctant to do, like Su30MKI, and similar to MKI they can also integrate all the bells and whistles of foreign origins, if the order is big enough.

    However, the point of cancelling FGFA should be only for forwarding timeline for AMCA, otherwise it will be foolish. Also, HAL or some other Indian partner should have the lincese for production in India itself. I doubt given how far along PAK FA has already gone, Russia would share any critical knowledge even if India goes for FGFA.
     
  7. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    I am not so sure that it is a rational choice in the short run. Given tortoise speed of HAL on delivering Tejas, I would not put all eggs in one basket.
     
  8. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Sorry buddy, but about the sluggish pace of HAL, I doubt we can ever be on the same page. I would have conceded if HAL was funded properly and HAL did not have to start at everything from scratch, and if IAF had not shifted the goalposts so many times and treated LCA with such contempt without ever supporting it. But all of what I have mentioned did not happen, so HAL can hardly be the only blacksheep we have and IAF bears the same if not more blame for delay of Tejas project.

    The project of AMCA, if Modi and Parrikar remains in power, will not face the kind of stepmotherly treatment that ailed LCA, so I believe AMCA project may be delayed as I think 2022 is too much of a optimistic date, but it wont be criminally late.
     
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  9. DingDong

    DingDong Senior Member Senior Member

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    Exactly, our Defense Forces do not only despise the Desi stuff, they try to sabotage projects like they did to MBT Arjun. Just see the kind of hiccups the F-35 project faced, Indian R&D is at a much nascent stage.

    No imminent war is coming in next 10 years, and we must utilize this period to master Critical Technologies. and for that we will learn to digest cost overruns and temporary setbacks.

    If India wishes to win any major conflict she will have to enter it with "Made in India" equipment supported by the Indian Defence Manufacturers, even if some of them lag behind the best in the market.
     
  10. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    Can someone shed some light on what prime differences will be there between PAKFA T-50 and FGFA in avionics ?
     
  11. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    Where is the pro-Russian propaganda club/camp when you need them in such thread????
     
  12. Dark Sorrow

    Dark Sorrow Respected Member Senior Member

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    Thats a very difficult to answer. Not a lot is known even about PAK FA avionics except for its sensors.
     
  13. Nicky G

    Nicky G Senior Member Senior Member

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    My humble and probably ill-informed suggestion would be to simply buy a few squadrons of PAK FA off the shelf and divert the rest of FGFA funds into our own AMCA. Throw in some sweeteners for the Russians so that they continue to help us out as they have done in many areas.

    We are going to lease another nuke sub and likely a third one too. So that should help.

    The S-400 does seem to be critical for our air defenses as we have nothing of our own that compares anywhere near deployment. Its important to not only diminish Paki attack capabilities but the much larger threat of Chinese stealth jets.

    A balancing act is required here. Lets see what the DM and PM manage.

    I wouldn't be too sure about that... actually its high time our esteemed western neighbors tried something.
     

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