Russia considering buying German Type 212 subs

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by bhramos, Sep 11, 2009.

  1. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    Russia considering buying German Type 212 subs

    Ministry of Defense of Russia is considering license production of submarines of the German development of the project 212 for the upgrade of the fleet of diesel-electric submarines of the Navy. This wrote on Sept. 10 RIA Novosti, citing sources in the military. The agency stresses that the construction of domestic non-nuclear submarines are still behind schedule, and the German U-boat of a similar class today considered the best in the world.

    As the source, the commissioning of the parent submarine "Saint Petersburg" Project 677 "Lada" is postponed because of serious problems. Two submarines of this project "Kronstadt" and "Sevastopol", incorporated in 2005 and 2006, has not yet launched. It was planned that they will replace the ships Project 877 Varshavyanka soviet built, but can developers to resolve technical complexity without changing their characteristics, is still unknown.

    Currently looking into installing some submarines small nuclear reactors, which will give them the benefits of nuclear power without significantly increasing the size and cost. Such a reactor, as indicated by the source agency, can be installed on a submarine project 677 and the experimental B-90 "Sarov". It also tested power plant "Kristall-27" with the electrochemical generator.

    However, as stressed by the RIA Novosti, the German U-boats already have such a power plant generator, significantly increasing the duration of swimming under water, and Russia's navy now in urgent need of new submarines of this class.

    Note that the submarines of Project 212 developed by German company Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG (HDW) commissioned by the Naval Forces of Germany. They are in service since 2005. On the basis of them also created an export version of Project 214 submarines. Their customers are Greece, South Korea, Turkey and Portugal.

    Water displacement submarine project 212 is 1840 tons, length - 56,3 m, width - 6,8 meters. Maximum diving depth of submarines is up to 600 meters underwater speed - up to 20 knots, the autonomy of swimming - up to 30 days, the crew consists of 27 people. As weapons submarines can be used torpedoes, mines and short-range missile IDAS.

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  3. ajay_ijn

    ajay_ijn Regular Member

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    oh my god and we are being made fools by russia for trying to sell their own submarines in competition with german and french subs.
     
  4. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    i already said we cant go for U-212 as PN already odered 3 subs of this class,
    may be the fuel cells used in U-212 are very powerful to get these technology, they are buying these subs, and in future they will produce their own fuel cells,
    like buying Israeli UAV's for the domestic R&D and devoloping new UAV's
     
  5. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    The Russians have decided that it was hight time they paid attention to their armed forces. since the breakup of the USSR the defence spending has been going downhill specially in R&D.

    They need to rapidly boost their Armed forces and this is the easiest way to acquire force multipliers. This along with the probable purchase of a Helicopter carrier from the French will give an immediate boost to the Red Army. this also will geive their engineers a feel of the western technology.

    For the long term they will have to pump in money into their R&D. As long the oil prices hover around US$75 they will be able to spend a lot of money on aquisitions.
     
  6. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    I am not familiar with this issue, please explain.
     
  7. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    vladimir sir, ajay is pointing towards 2nd line of subs tender floated by IN where amur is also participating
     
  8. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    The real impetus behind this and the Mistral decision is the need to rebuild the naval industry. We are going to incorporate some production technologies as our shipbuilding is starting to wain. A dock to build Mistral LPDs will enable us to have latest technology so we can build carriers and a U-212 dock will enable us to make advanced SSKs. We are planning to sign orders for 40 SSKs by 2015 so we need up-to-date facilities to fill these orders as well as our own domestic needs. The Black Sea Fleet is also in desperate need of new long-endurance SSKs which the U-212 would fit nicely as a stopgap.
     
  9. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    I am aware the Amur is offered for the INs next generation SSK, but how is it India is being made fools of?
     
  10. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Point is simple what ajay is saying is why Russia is offering something which even they are not sure off and not consider suitable for there armed forces. German U 214 will be on race.
     
  11. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    I see, well that simply isn't the case. The reason for the purchase would be to augment our sub building facilities so we can reach the number of orders we are procuring for our own subs and export. We fully intend to induct Amur's sister ship the Lada in large numbers. Getting the machine tools and German expertise to build U-212 would help speed up the process of our own programmes. The need to expidite submarines to the BSF is apparent with only one Kilo in operation. 8-10 submarines are immediatly required. We have orders with Venezuela for another 9 submarines so you can see the urgency. If we hope to compete in IN's 75A project or any other tender we will need this deal. The whole future of Russia's SSK production depends on it. I doubt we will build more than a handful of U-212, just enough to make the purchase feasable for the Germans.
     
  12. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    In a way you are accepting the Russian extertise in case of diesel electric submarines is not up to the mark. It will not be a good decision to go ahead with amur. I think it will be a good idea to go with french asking them help in minituarising the nuclear reactor to be fit in to scorpenes and second line of subs. Meanwhile with Russia more miscalculations on Adm Gorshakov can be done and some more projects can go underway :D
     
  13. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    But one question isn't the order has to be for U 214 I think U 212 is not for sale. Correct me if I am wrong
     
  14. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    may be u r right.
    their are even aprox 6 kilo's on order for Vietnam also, u forgot it brother,
    i think S-1000 may be good option , but the Russian Govt is not focusing well on S-1000 project-75a, only Italian govt is only trying to clinch it,
    untill now i taught the Amur was favourite for IN, when you have such a busy schedule what are you going to do with this deal?
    may be Amur wins it will also face delays..!!!
     
  15. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    as well as Russsia's order of France-made warships, the case prove how Russian industry base has been collapsing since Soviet collasped.

    however, MR Vladimir79 seems not to be ready to face the reality....
     
  16. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Of course it has been collapsing. It was left stagnant for 15 years. This is part of the rebuilding process. We have chosen to do so with the latest technology you only wish you had. The day China sells an SSK you let me know. Right now you aren't even in the same catagory.
     
  17. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    Badguy, if you feel Russia is all junk and collapsed, I suggest you stop buying engines and what not from them!!! If Russians embargo you guys, your J10s and J11s and Su30s will stop flying and you will be left those F7s and A5s to do air superiority missions :D
     

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