Russia cannot give India sophisticated Stealth Technology

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by lcafanboy, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. lcafanboy

    lcafanboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Russia cannot give India sophisticated Stealth Technology

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    On Mar. 9 the Times of India reported that Delhi is making extra demands to Moscow when it comes to the joint production of a Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Citing sources in the Indian Defence Ministry, the report said that India would go in for this joint venture only under the condition of a full-scale technology transfer and if Russia provided help in the development of the indigenous Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

    According to the paper, the Indian side bases such demands on the experience of the Sukhoi-30MKI jet acquisition programme, which cost India Rs 55,717 crore ($8.4 billion) without any “tangible help in developing indigenous fighter-manufacturing capabilities.” The recipient company Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) is still unable to manufacture the Sukhois on its own, the paper noted.

    RIR asked experts to explain whether Indian demands were justified and where the real problem lay.


    ‘Red line’ in technology transfer ::

    Without a doubt, there are some limitations on the extent to which a country would transfer its military technology, experts believe. According to Alexander Ermakov, expert at the Russian International Affairs Council (RIAC), this especially concerns critical types of technology that influence the ability of a country to ensure its security: most importantly missile technology, communications and electronic warfare systems.

    The limitations always vary depending on the client. While bilateral relations do play a role, it is also important for a partner to “bargain” for certain technology, Ermakov thinks.

    “If Indonesia, for instance, makes a request to Russia for a batch of 8-12 Su-35 multi-role fighters, it is unlikely that Moscow would discuss any technology transfer,” Konstantin Makienko, Deputy Director of the Moscow-based Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, explains. “On the contrary, when China bought 48 Su-27 aircraft in early and mid-1990s, this allowed for an opportunity to transfer this technology to China within a licensed production contract.” The larger the amount of requested supplies, the better is the chance for discussing potential technology transfer, Makienko believes.

    Trading technologies is also much easier for a country like Russia when a partner shares the same geostrategic and military interests and there is a history of past fruitful cooperation. India is in the best position here, unlike Pakistan, which Makienko calls “unstable and unpredictable and to an extent, an analogue of Ukraine in South Asia.”


    Privileged partnership with India ::

    While India is enjoying a privileged status among Russian partners, there are obstacles that hamper it from producing Russian defence technology using its own industrial capabilities.

    “Moscow puts no limitations whatsoever on military technology transfer to Delhi,” Vasily Kashin, senior research fellow at the Moscow Based Institute for Far Eastern Studies and at the Higher School of Economics, told RIR.

    He says it is the ability of India to pay for a certain technology and localize it that determines the scale and effectiveness of such cooperation. The problem with the Su-30MKI case is that the progress is not happening as fast as planned due to difficulties in local industrial production, lack of skilled labour and low adherence to technological requirements.

    Kanwal Sibal, former Indian Foreign Secretary and Ambassador to Russia (2004-2007), acknowledges that this problem does exist.

    “India has failed to develop an indigenous defence manufacturing industry even though its defence requirements are huge,” Sibal told RIR. “We are at times the largest importer of arms in the world. This is absurd for a country that is faced with major security challenges. The Russian connection has given us advanced arms but not the capacity to build them on our own.”


    Make jointly ::

    In this respect, India is lagging behind China which has been successfully localizing and modernizing acquired technologies. If Russia decides to seriously opt for joint development and production of military equipment and accept more interdependence, it would be a game-changer for India.

    Makienko thinks this is a natural step in the evolution of defence cooperation between the countries, which started in 1962. “Now we should move toward joint projects and joint development of new technologies and we should, in fact, talk about the promotion of the ‘Make jointly in India and Russia’ brand,” he says.

    While Sibal echoes his view, he also warns that learning to work within the current Make in India programme might be hard for Russian firms. “This will be a challenge for Russian companies as the model so far has been to deal with public sector units in India through government to government agreements,” he told RIR.

    Overcoming these obstacles would bring the sides closer to more interdependence and make joint ventures such as the FGFA more large-scale.

    “The FGFA programme was conceived to give India access to critical design capability. If that happens to the degree expected, it would be a major breakthrough for the future,” Sibal says.
    http://www.defencenews.in/article/Russia-cannot-give-India-sophisticated-Stealth-Technology-251027

    @sayareakd @Indx TechStyle @Kunal Biswas @all
     
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  3. Shashank Sharma

    Shashank Sharma Regular Member

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    We can only rely on ourselves for future defence projects. Other nations are only there to pose as friends and take our money!
     
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  4. COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

    COLDHEARTED AVIATOR Regular Member

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    Glad India moved on from relying on Russian equipments too much.
     
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  5. HeinzGud

    HeinzGud Senior Member Senior Member

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    It will take some considerable time till Indian defense industry matures to top standard. Therefore up till then India has to procure weapons from other sources.
     
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  6. Tarun Kumar

    Tarun Kumar Regular Member

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    The main reason is the lethargy of DPSUs. DRDO can at best provide the design. The bulk of work has to be done by the contractor which in this case is looser HAL and OFB. We need private players in AMCA project and all defence projects. Best is to buy few squads of PAK FA as a stopgap and focus on building AMCA.
     
  7. airtel

    airtel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Good news .
    :balleballe::balleballe::balleballe::balleballe::balleballe::balleballe:
     
  8. Hemu Vikram Aditya

    Hemu Vikram Aditya Regular Member

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    Now Russia is showing their true colors atleast now India would get something in TOT
    Before the Russians were able to bribe our minister but now with the new Government Russia is forced to atleast give TOT to us in something
     
  9. 3deffect

    3deffect Regular Member

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    DRDO ki lag gyi watt ab technology banao verna modi tumhe nhe choodega
     
  10. warrior monk

    warrior monk Regular Member

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    No country will give stealth technology all these technologies must be developed inhouse these are the crown jewels why would any country part with it .
     
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  11. square

    square Regular Member

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    IAF made it clear that fgfa need improvment over it stealth capabilities....

    in that case , russia still do not have these tech and need to develope it....

    then , whats the issue in co-developing them ?
     
  12. Bornubus

    Bornubus Dogra Rule 1846-1949 Senior Member

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    Russians gave inferior monkey models for Tanks and denied the technology for Smerch and tank Barrels so why would they transfer stealth tech. FGFA will suffer the same fate as Tejas. By the time DRDO fully develop any Project it becomes near obsolete lol

    The only Nation which is ready to transfer their Defense Tech is Israel not piece of trash Russians.
     
  13. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    Even worse....
    FGFA was an utter scam thankfully now seems to be stuck.

    Russia won't give us ToT but wants money,
    And government won't give money without ToT.
    For first attempt,
    From our first warship to first ballistic missile, first ISRO rocket to first helicopter,


    Took decades and came out even as a comlete dud though following projects could deliver some substance.
    Problem with fighter plane is that foreign lobbies & bribes and incompetency put a full stop.

    For critical machines,
    We are good at things like warships & ammo but we suck in case of planes & submarines.
     
  14. su35

    su35 Regular Member

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    It is the old strategy of capitalistic super power to sell degeraded stuff to poor country. Isreal provide us quality tech as we share similar threats
     
  15. lcafanboy

    lcafanboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    India should realize Putin's Russia is not Soviet Union.

    Soviet union Russia gave their best to India, remember India was the first nation outside of Russia to operate Mig 29s which even warsaw pact nation didn't got it at that time and they also provided nuclear Submarine on lease and were about to transfer the technology to build one but Soviet Union collapsed and we had to slug it alone to finish it and paid Putin through nose for it (INS Vikramaditya price raise was to accommodate Nuke sub Technology but was increased several times which didn't go down with Indian govt. ).
     
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  16. Bornubus

    Bornubus Dogra Rule 1846-1949 Senior Member

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    Affirmative. Abram tank though operated by US, Iraq and Egypt but those are completely different from each other.


    Just like Russian T 72. Indian T 72M1 is a degraded variant operated by Russians T 72B or T 72B3 etc


    The real Indo Israeli defense collaboration is still not known in open for obvious reasons. I have read somewhere a DRDO official was saying that Israelis do work with Indians in our labs and vise versa
     
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  17. Hemu Vikram Aditya

    Hemu Vikram Aditya Regular Member

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    I think Russia is trying to keep its status quo by throwing brakes at Bhartiyan Technology Advancements
    I think in 20 years or so we and chinese and other Asian countries would surpass Russia in technology
     
  18. lcafanboy

    lcafanboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    It is obvious to Pakistanis now. They have got the taste of it on 29/sep/2016 when India conducted the surgical strikes on Pakistan evaporating their entire launch pads along with their terrorist pigs at various places simultaneously.

    And people in India who follow things should also be able to know what went into those surgical strikes and who gave that technology to India.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
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  19. Bornubus

    Bornubus Dogra Rule 1846-1949 Senior Member

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    Their Aircraft carrier and Subs were Rusting after the dissolution of Soviet Union.


    Initially, they offer the AC Gorshkov for free but only wanted the Indians to pay for the repair @ $800 million then double crossed us at $2 billion.
     
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  20. Bornubus

    Bornubus Dogra Rule 1846-1949 Senior Member

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    Israelis pioneer the use of Drones in warfare and show it to the world how to win wars against all odds with limited resources. They know how to improvise.


    For ex when the world denied them heavy artillery to fight a war against Arabs they figure out the cheap alternative by themselves by developing a 160 mm Heavy mortar M 66.


    They helped India during Kargil and now majority of our critical surveillance and other equipments on LoC are of Israeli origin helping us winning the attrition war against Pakis.


    LORROS, ELM/ 2140 etc you name it .........
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  21. Krusty

    Krusty Senior Member Senior Member

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    Bro, in this day and age, it makes no business sense to sell its tech to Russia. Give me one logical reason why would they? Doesn't make sense at any level.

    I have said this before and I'll say it again. It's like the bloody IIT screening tests. You HAVE to put in the effort for it. Only then you will get through. I hope atleast now, HAL and DRDO get in full swing for developing the required tech. We will finish in 20 years if we start now.

    It's not about brakes on our advancement. We have to do our homework. I support DRDO fully but can you put your hand on your heart and tell me it's. It like other govt Organisation? No red tapism and babuism? How can we point gingers at others when our own Organisations are faulty ? Forget tech, atleast process wise, are we as good as, say BAE Or LM or Rafael?

    Can someone tell me in reasonable terms on what grounds we can just ask countries to transfer fifth gen tech just like that to us? An industry which they have spend decades in time and billions of $$ in research?
    If you owned a business running cutting edge tech, why would you just give it away ?

    Only our own effort that we put now will help us in the long run. Nothing else. We can't expect any bleeding edge tech transfer from US or Russia. If someone thinks we will get it, they are naive.
     
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