Riots in East Turkestan: Future of Uighurs

Ray

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Having explained the Hans and their Empire building and how they assimilated the nei ren or barbarians in posts 58 and 61, let us analyse why the Uighurs are on the warpath.


The reason for this is that the Chinese government presumes - with some justification - that Uighur religiosity has a connection with advocacy of a separate Uighur state. The Chinese government's great sensitivity on this topic has been highlighted by the recent detention in Uzbekistan and deportation to China of a Canadian citizen and refugee from China, Huseyincan Celil, who is a Uighur activist and imam. On the surface though, there is within Xinjiang an apparent state tolerance of religious belief alongside tight state controls.

Many Uighur's are Muslims, which shows itself in, for example, the widespread refusal by Uighur's to go to a Chinese restaurant because the food is not prepared according to Muslim requirements. Many devoutly Muslim Uighurs told Forum 18 that they do not think that they have the right – in Islam – to accept living under the rule of China, because "the Chinese are heathens." By comparison, in Central Asia when it was part of the Soviet Union, such arguments were not heard amongst devout Muslims, who had no hesitation in going to Russian restaurants.

Every Friday morning Xinjiang's imams are obliged to go to their local state Religious Affairs Bureau, to discuss the text of their Friday sermon with officials, Forum 18 learnt. At these Friday meetings, imams receive only "general instructions and may improvise" in their sermons. During the Islamic fasting month of Ramadan, the authorities force Muslim schoolchildren to have lunch. State employees are under similar pressure. "I am a deeply believing Muslim, but I have to hide this from my colleagues," one local Muslim teacher who preferred not to be named told Forum 18. "As a school teacher I cannot wear a beard and perform the namaz [Muslim prayers] at work. During Ramadan I have to eat with the other teachers in order to hide my faith." The teacher added that praying at home, without revealing this to others, would not cause problems.
Children below 18 are not allowed in Mosques or allowed to be instructed in Islamic education. Similar prohibitions on the religious education of children also apply to the state-controlled Patriotic Catholic Church in Xinjiang.

The strictness of the authorities' control over Muslims also depends directly on the level of religiosity of Uighurs in different districts of Xinjiang. For example, in Hotan and Kashgar there is a notice at all mosques to the effect that state employees and children are not allowed to attend the mosque. In the yard of the mosque, detailed instructions are posted about what one is not allowed to do in the mosque. And in Hotan, where the population is more religious than in Kashgar, the number of instructions is greater.
In Hotan the ban on children attending the mosque is applied very strictly. For example, during the Friday prayers police guard the mosques to ensure that children do not attend.

Therefore, it is not surprising that there are riots in Xinjiang, especially when Muslims are very sensitive about their religious duties and rights.
 

Officer of Engineers

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Therefore, it is not surprising that there are riots in Xinjiang, especially when Muslims are very sensitive about their religious duties and rights.
Sir,

Are you not going off evidence? Everything I've seen about the current crisis is racial tensions based upon a false crime (rape).

I will not deny that the Hans have a racial attitude (the barbarian attitude comes to mind)

But I remind you, Sir, that this current set of violence was initiated by the Han and not by a minority.
 

Ray

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Colonel,

What is modernisation?

I have seen life for a long time.

The older pace of life was far better than today. Today, with all these gizmos and qjuicker transportation has only increased the pace of life and it has become stressful. The datelines and everything to do anything is 'immediate' and even before that 'immediate' can be done, there are people hounding you to give progress!

If that is life, then so be it!

I don't have a cellphone and I don't think I am in the Stoneage.

My mental peace is more than my children who have deadlines to meet even before such deadlines can be understood!
 

Ray

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Sir,

Are you not going off evidence? Everything I've seen about the current crisis is racial tensions based upon a false crime (rape).

I will not deny that the Hans have a racial attitude (the barbarian attitude comes to mind)

But I remind you, Sir, that this current set of violence was initiated by the Han and not by a minority.
Rape proved? Unless proved, one can't blame anyone.

So many get raped all over the world. Is that new? Does every rape cause a riot?

It is when injustice is perceived and believed as normal, it becomes a huge case and riots follow!

One must also understand the Islamic mentality and its sensitivity wherein everything is anti Islam! Every issue becomes a religious issue when they are involved!
 

Daredevil

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Here is what badhuy posted

Originally Posted by badguy2000
just as India does with low castes,chinese government also provides many privileges to ethnics minorities like Uighurs.

For example, when applying to universities, Uighuers candidates can get additional points.

when running for government jobs, Uighuers also can got addtional points.
The link you posted below doesn't talk one word about it. Please inundate yourself in your ignorance that you have shown here . When you are afloat come back with correct links or don't bother.

Ignorance is no excuse when you can do a google search

Ethnic minorities in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Ray

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Originally Posted by badguy2000
just as India does with low castes,chinese government also provides many privileges to ethnics minorities like Uighurs.

For example, when applying to universities, Uighuers candidates can get additional points.

when running for government jobs, Uighuers also can got addtional points.
Are minorities low castes to the Hans?

We have a law that if you say low caste, you are in jail! You have that?

Privileges to the ethnic minorities in China (neat way to buy over the wild ones) are there if, nut only if they know Mandarin and if they are loyal to the Chinese govt and approved by the regional Communist Party hacks! In short, if they become 'cooked' barbarians!!

Only those who know Mandarin can get into university and govt jobs! Neat way to kill the indigenous language and Hanise the people!



Let's not fool people!

Please understand we also study other civilisations and countries, even the keyboard happy people!
 

p2prada

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Because we 3G cellphones, PS3 and DSLR cameras.... shopping malls, hotels, restaurants, nightclubs.... we have civilization.

They are subsistence farmers who live in mud huts.
See who you are insulting mate. Even your elders did not have 3G cellphones, PS3 and DSLR cameras.... shopping malls, hotels, restaurants, nightclubs either.

So, were they all uncouth barbarians until you were born.
 
S

SammyCheung

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Historically, whenever backward people get into close contact with more advanced societies, the backward people's culture is changed forever. Look at the American Indians.

This is what's happening now to the Uighur and Tibetan culture. This is natural selection. It's entirely natural for the culture of primitive subsistence farmers to pass into history.

Don't try to fight it. Just accept it.

Welcome to the modern world, my Uighur and Tibetan brothers. Maybe its painful now to say goodbye to your old traditional ways, but in the long run, progress and advanced civilization is best for everyone.
 

Yusuf

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Sammy,
I think you have a very flawed definition of civilized people and backward people.
Since when did using cellphones and having malls be called civilized?

You would be called civilized, if you respect the rights of those you trample on.
 

yuebaili

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I used to post at Tianya forum. But I am not allowed to do so any more. The Chinese authorities obviously wish to continue to keep the Chinese people brainwashed. And judging by the narrowminded posts they are very successful. But I suppose there must be a lot of enlightened Chinese posters who are banned like me.
It is obvious that the Chinese are worried about what is happening in Xinjiang. And there are several threads about it at Tianya (and probably also other chinese forums). Even if the discussion is not free, there are some interesting posts. For those of you who can read Chinese i would like to know what you think of the poster kimwoonggeal. He is complaining about how the Han majority look upon the minorities. You will find the thread here: ºôÓõ½ûµô´Û¸ÄÀúÊ·É¿¶¯½®¶ÀµÄ¡¶Êé½£¶÷³ð¼¡·_¹ú¼Ê¹Û²ì_ÌìÑÄÉçÇø
 
S

SammyCheung

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Sammy,
I think you have a very flawed definition of civilized people and backward people.
Since when did using cellphones and having malls be called civilized?

You would be called civilized, if you respect the rights of those you trample on.
Look, let's drop the cultural relativism.

Traditional Uighur and Xinjiang society are backward, pre-modern.

Han Chinese bring 3G phones and PS3 to Xinjiang and Tibet. We are doing them a favor!

Let's not stand in the way of modernization and development for poor areas of China. Let's all look to the future, not the past.
 

Ray

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Historically, whenever backward people get into close contact with more advanced societies, the backward people's culture is changed forever. Look at the American Indians.

This is what's happening now to the Uighur and Tibetan culture. This is natural selection. It's entirely natural for the culture of primitive subsistence farmers to pass into history.

Don't try to fight it. Just accept it.

Welcome to the modern world, my Uighur and Tibetan brothers. Maybe its painful now to say goodbye to your old traditional ways, but in the long run, progress and advanced civilization is best for everyone.
So MacDonald and Starbucks are modernisation and away from traditional ways? Correct?

Peking Duck and Chinese food are for peasants and illiterates and backward, right?

The Great Wall of China is a symbol of idiots, right?

And what about the Forbidden City? Fools live there?
 

Daredevil

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Historically, whenever backward people get into close contact with more advanced societies, the backward people's culture is changed forever. Look at the American Indians.

This is what's happening now to the Uighur and Tibetan culture. This is natural selection. It's entirely natural for the culture of primitive subsistence farmers to pass into history.

Don't try to fight it. Just accept it.

Welcome to the modern world, my Uighur and Tibetan brothers. Maybe its painful now to say goodbye to your old traditional ways, but in the long run, progress and advanced civilization is best for everyone.
Tell me, if the hans of chinese were to be ruled by tibetans and Uighurs, would you accept their rule on you. If you are unable to respect and maintain the traditions and culture of the people you are invading that will lead to unrest and civil war. History is replete with such examples.

Take the example of Bangladesh, west pakistanis tried to rub-off their language and traditions on Bangladeshi people and it led to unrest and civil war and in the end breaking off the country into two. I hope Chinese are pragmatic people and learn lessons from history.
 

Daredevil

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Look, let's drop the cultural relativism.

Traditional Uighur and Xinjiang society are backward, pre-modern.

Han Chinese bring 3G phones and PS3 to Xinjiang and Tibet. We are doing them a favor!

Let's not stand in the way of modernization and development for poor areas of China. Let's all look to the future, not the past.
LOL, on the same note Chinese are also backward because 3G phones and PS3 are actually brought to Chinese by westerners. Shouldn't chinese subjugate to western powers and let them rule China.

You crack me up man. :rofl:
 

Yusuf

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Look, let's drop the cultural relativism.

Traditional Uighur and Xinjiang society are backward, pre-modern.

Han Chinese bring 3G phones and PS3 to Xinjiang and Tibet. We are doing them a favor!

Let's not stand in the way of modernization and development for poor areas of China. Let's all look to the future, not the past.
Did they ask for the favor? No.
You remind me of the British who took it upon themselves to "civilize" a three thousand year old civilization and called it the white mans burden.

We were modern and civilized also without the 3G phones and PS3.
 

Daredevil

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Han Chinese mob takes to the streets in Urumqi in hunt for Uighur Muslims

Oh Boy. As expected the ethnic cleansing of Uighurs by the Hans begins.:2guns:

Han Chinese mob takes to the streets in Urumqi in hunt for Uighur Muslims

Thousands of Chinese protesters armed with axes, machetes and hammers have taken to the streets in Urumqi, Xinjiang, in an escalation of the violence that has claimed 156 lives so far.

By Peter Foster in Urumqi
Published: 9:03AM BST 07 Jul 2009

The Han Chinese protesters streamed down North Jiefang road and into the alleys behind a central mosque in a bid to hunt down any local Uighur Muslims.

Protesters said they were seeking revenge after hearing rumours that ethnic Uighurs had broken into Urumqi's hospitals and killed several patients.

"We want revenge for our dead," the mob chanted, between choruses of the Chinese national anthem. Several groups in cars raced up and down the streets, with people hanging out of the windows.

One woman, armed with a five-foot wooden stake, said: "We heard from the television that Uighurs had killed hundreds of Han Chinese, including children. We cannot bear it anymore. We cannot live our lives in this city. We will show the Uighurs that the Han people can join our hands together also."

Behind her, tear gas canisters skittled and exploded as the crowd waved red flags and shouted "Qian shou!" or "Hold your hands together!" Another man said: "We heard that some Uighurs had broken into the hospital and killed patients. Now we are helping the police to crush the separatists."

Policemen used loudspeakers to urge the mob to "Calm down, don't smash buildings and back off. Let the police do their job." However the crowd showed little sign of dispersing. Waves of excitement rippled through the protesters as local shopkeepers and office workers cheered them on.

Chinese reports suggested the local Han Chinese, unhappy with the level of protection they had received from police, were now taking matters into their own hands.

The riots, which began when a peaceful protest by ethnic Uighurs spiralled out of control on Sunday, appear to be increasingly fuelled by wild rumours spread over the internet and by word of mouth.

Local Uighurs said they had heard that Han Chinese factory workers in Guangdong had killed 600 Uighurs and chopped them into small pieces.

Others claimed that 400 Uighur women had been raped by Han Chinese.
"Our menfolk will never forgive this," said one Uighur woman.

Meanwhile, Han Chinese vented their fury over the internet. "Destroy the conspiracy, strike hard against these saboteurs, and strike even more fiercely than before," said a poster calling himself Chang Qing on Sina.com, one of the most popular portals.

"The blood debt will be repaid. Han compatriots unite and rise up," said another commentator on Baidu.com, a search engine.

Earlier on Tuesday, Wang Lequan, the party secretary of Xinjiang said that although Sunday's unrest had been quelled, "this struggle is far from over".
 
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SammyCheung

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Han Chinese society changed with modern lifestyle too. We used to have rickshaws, now we have Hummers.

Same thing is happening now in Xinjiang and Tibet. Shopping malls and modern lifestyle is "invading" their traditional world.

Don't try to stop progress of civilization.
 

Daredevil

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^ Han Chinese society changed with modern lifestyle too. We used to have rickshaws, now we have Hummers.

Same thing is happening now in Xinjiang and Tibet. Shopping malls and modern lifestyle is "invading" their traditional world.

Don't try to stop progress of civilization.
Oh dear Fan boy. It will be better for you to go and read a little about civilization instead of coming here and spouting your BS gyan to us.

Just shopping malls and modern lifestyle is not civilization, it is modernization. I urge you to read more about civilization. Let me help with the first step

Civilization - an advanced stage or system of human social development. (oxford dictionary).
 

p2prada

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Han Chinese society changed with modern lifestyle too. We used to have rickshaws, now we have Hummers.

Same thing is happening now in Xinjiang and Tibet. Shopping malls and modern lifestyle is "invading" their traditional world.

Don't try to stop progress of civilization.
That means all those practicing Shaolin Kung Fu in China are .....well!

Sammy tell your monks to be more civilized, they are regressing your country with their traditional arts and beliefs. Teach them pub hopping and introduce them to TGIF.
 

I-G

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[mod] This is not a religious forum, please refrain from discussion of such[/mod]



The proxy war in Chenchya is between Russia and Turkey .
The proxy war in Kashmir is by Pakistan
In Palestine its war of independence as Israel is occupying it .

The Uyghur independence activists staged several uprisings against Sheng-Kuomintang rule. Twice, in 1933 and 1944, Uyghur were successful in setting up two independent Uyghur states: East Turkestan Republic and Republic of Uyghurstan or Islamic Eastern Turkestan Republic. The more secular, socialist East Turkestan Republic was multiethnic, with Kazakh, Uzbek, Han Chinese, Kyrgyz, Russian as well as Uyghur founders, and was backed by Joseph Stalin. In 1949, the East Turkestan agreed to form a confederate relation with Mao's People's Republic of China, banking on the firm grip on Xinjiang by its own pro-Soviet and ethnic nationalist local regime. However, a plane crash killed the main body of East Turkestan Republic's supreme leadership, as this party was on its way to Beijing to negotiate the terms of confederation. The crash is sometimes alleged as a plot by Mao, because soon following the crash, General Wang Zhen quickly marched on Xinjiang through the deserts, suppressing pro-Kuomintang and anti-Chinese ethnic uprisings. The remaining East Turkestan Republic leadership under General Saipidin Eziz quickly surrendered to Mao's terms and agreed to turn Xinjiang into the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, with the Eastern Turkestan Republican Army pressed into the PLA and Saipidin Eziz serving as the region's first CCP governor. Many East Turkestan Republic loyalists, resenting Saipidin's betrayal of the Uyghur's nationalist dream, made their exiles to Turkey and the West.
 

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