Revived: plan to give access to bases to US

Ray

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Revived: plan to give access to bases

SUJAN DUTTA
New Delhi, Jan. 22: The Narendra Modi government has asked the defence establishment to resurrect an 11-year-old proposal from the Pentagon that will enable India and the US to grant mutual access to each other's military bases, refuel and replenish warships and fighter planes and, in a contingency, participate jointly in multi-nation military operations.

"The US has given us non-papers on LSA. We are now ready to look at the fine print. We have asked them to explain how these 'foundational' agreements benefit us. Yes, we have the political nod," a senior defence source told The Telegraph today.

The LSA is short for "logistics support agreement". A non-paper is a diplomatic instrument for background information before an agreement is signed (or not signed).

The crucial element the Indian establishment is grappling with is: will signing the agreements get construed politically as a military alliance? Within the establishment there is a growing belief that they can weather such an allegation because it can translate to economic benefits domestically. Also, there is awareness that the impact of fundamental policy changes can only be assessed years after the changes have been made.

"People have long looked at this relationship (India-US) and seen the fundamentals in place for a really, really close partnership, and yet it's been a challenge in translating that into outcomes," Ben Rhodes, deputy national security adviser in the White House's National Security Council, said in a tele-conference from Washington last night.

A political commitment to find convergence on the three "foundational" agreements — logistics support, CISMOA (communications interoperability and security memorandum of agreement) and BECA (basic exchange and cooperation agreement for geo-spatial cooperation) — will be written into the text of the new framework agreement for India-US defence cooperation that is likely to be signed during US President Barack Obama's visit.

US law requires the country to sign these three pacts before agreeing to transfer sophisticated military technology and weapons.

The framework agreement was first signed for 10 years in July 2005 when Pranab Mukherjee, now President, was the defence minister in the first term of Manmohan Singh's UPA government. The agreement is due for renewal in July this year but the two sides are ready to do it now.

While the 2005 agreement laid out the basis for a relationship during which the US has supplied $10-billion worth of weapons to India — and Indian forces have been in wargames with the American military more than 70 times, the most with any country — it did not commit New Delhi to signing the "foundational agreements".

The Left parties, on which UPA I initially relied for support, protested and alleged that India was giving up the independence of its foreign policy. In Parliament, Pranab Mukherjee defended the LSA and said it "will not affect the independence of India's foreign policy" and that it would enable "mutual logistic support when deploying defence resources in disaster relief operations or joint exercises".

But the UPA government abandoned the idea of signing the agreements, continuously seeking clarifications as a delaying tactic.

The LSA was put in cold storage because of protests not only from the Opposition and from within its own ranks but also from within the forces. In October 2010, Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik, who then headed the Indian Air Force, said: "Government had asked us about our opinion on these agreements and we told them that they will not make any substantial difference to our operational capabilities."

The resurrection of the idea now is a consequence of a change in the environment in South Block. Officers say there have been two major shifts since the last time the LSA was looked at seriously.

First, President Obama announced in January 2012 a "rebalance to Asia" policy and referred to India as a "strategic partner". This means many of US military assets — such as aircraft carriers — will be increasingly deployed to the south and east of India after the intense stationing in and around the Persian Gulf for Iraq and Afghanistan.

Second, the Modi government not only has the heft, without having to depend on coalition partners, but also the intent of doing away with hitches that US officials have repeatedly described as obstacles to larger transfer of technology and weapons to India.

"Let us say that while the last agreement centred around the DPG (India-US defence policy group), this one will be giving DTTI (defence trade and technology initiative) a lot of attention," the source said.
The defence policy group (DPG), headed by India's defence secretary and his US counterpart, monitors the overall cooperation between the militaries. The DTTI was proposed by the US two years ago through which it offered to co-develop sophisticated weapons with India.

Delegations led by India's defence production secretary, G. Mohan Kumar, and the US undersecretary for defence acquisitions and technology, Frank Kendall, were in talks today ahead of announcements to be made during the Modi-Obama summit.

In the DTTI list being drawn up, India and the US will propose to enter into joint ventures to produce unmanned aircraft, among other technologies. The DTTI list will enable US and Indian companies to enter into joint ventures tailored to suit Modi's "Make in India" policy.

Revived: plan to give access to bases
The Indian Ocean is hotting up.

Note where the US is interested.

Also check the attempts to strengthen the defence infrastructure.
 

sorcerer

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US law requires the country to sign these three pacts before agreeing to transfer sophisticated military technology and weapons.
May be we gonna see some real ToTs viz a viz "Make in India" program!!

The framework agreement was first signed for 10 years in July 2005 when Pranab Mukherjee, now President, was the defence minister in the first term of Manmohan Singh's UPA
:D This is awesome! Pranab Mukherjee was against Antonio Maino (read Sonia G) at political levels in the inner workings of congress, they had huge disagreements between themselves!
Nice move Modi. The president of India already knows what we are dealing with.

This indeed is getting hot! - Atleast US and Russia both needs skill base and low manufacturing cost for their arms Manufcaturing requirement.
 

Ray

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I wonder if granting mutual access to each other's military bases, refuel and replenish warships and fighter planes and, in a contingency, participate jointly in multi-nation military operations will tantamount to a military alliance.

If we also have such an arrangement with Russia, that would upset the USA. A rather tricky knot to unravel.

Yet, on the other hand, Russia may not object because it is fully aware that a strong China on it borders, is not conducive to her own security since ethnicity in Russia's Far East is really not Russia. It is composed of Yakuts (who are Turkic), Aleuts (who are indigenous people of the Aleutian Islands of Alaska, United States and Kamchatka Krai, Russia), Yuits, (who are a Yupik Eskimo people who reside along the coast of the Chukchi Peninsula), Chukchi (indigenous people inhabiting the Chukchi Peninsula and the shores of the Chukchi Sea and the Bering Sea region of the Arctic Ocean), Koryaks (indigenous people of Kamchatka Krai in the Russian Far East, who inhabit the coastlands of the Bering Sea to the south of the Anadyr basin ), Alyutor (indigenous inhabitants of the northern part of the Kamchatka Peninsula), Kereks (an ethnic group, almost completely assimilated into the Chukchi people), Itelmen or Kamchadal (an ethnic group who are the original inhabitants living on the Kamchatka Peninsula and who had many intermarriage with the Cossacks during the Cossack conquest in the 18th century), Evenks ( Tungusic people of Northern Asia and are also in China), Nanai people ( Tungusic people of the Far East, who have traditionally lived along Heilongjiang (Amur), Songhuajiang (Sunggari) and Ussuri rivers on the Middle Amur Basin. They are also in China, known as "Hezhe"), Orochs (also called Nani), Ulch (indigenous people of the Far East of Tungusic origin), Udege (people who live in the Primorsky Krai and Khabarovsk Krai regions), Oroks (people in the Sakhalin Oblast), Yukaghir (people in East Siberia, living in the basin of the Kolyma River), Nivkh (indigenous ethnic group inhabiting the northern half of Sakhalin Island and the region of the Amur River estuary in Russia's Khabarovsk Krai), Ainu ( indigenous people of Japan (Hokkaido, and formerly northeastern Honshu) and Russia (Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands)).

It may be noted that many of these ethnic groups are nomadic their beliefs are animism, animal worship, and shamanism.

These people may have been assimilated by the geographical entity of USSR, now Russia, but are generally free wheeling and not to wedded to the Nationhood per se. Therefore, Russia has reason to feel uncomfortable about its Far East.

Further, since some of the larger groups are close to the Mongol and Mongoloid stock, which has a population in China, China can influence them. In fact, many go across to China border towns to do their purchases.

Therefore, while Russia would like to assist China since it is in huge trouble with the West, yet, it would not like it to be so strong as to pose a threat in Russia's Far East.
 

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Signing LSA seems like a very bad idea. India will end up being played for a fool by the US and at the same time piss off Russia. There are plenty of nations who can play host to US of A like Oman or Sri Lanka, India should not be one of them.
 

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The Indian Navy needs to expand its range beyond IOR, and to do this we need peace and wartime network of nations. Only USA can provide such assistance because they have bases in every ocean.
 

SajeevJino

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a Good one Not only Hosting the US Warships . But Hosting UAV's and Fighter Jets . and we will allow these Assets can carry out Attack over Bakistan

a win win game
 

Ray

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Signing LSA seems like a very bad idea. India will end up being played for a fool by the US and at the same time piss off Russia. There are plenty of nations who can play host to US of A like Oman or Sri Lanka, India should not be one of them.
You have a point.

However, the Indian Peninsula commands the sea routes in the Indian Ocean.

And in foreign policy there is no permanent friends or enemy.

We should use the time allowed to us with the US to dominate the Indian Ocean and "Peacefully Rise". ;) :)

US already has Diego Gracia. This will be only a add on without much use by the US navy.
 

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there is lot of merit in this case. Benefits are also apparent.

We need to have an open debate on this, my personal opinion would be to go for it. We shall benefit from the transfer of technology and also gain economically by hosting the US Naval ships in our ports.
 

roma

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pardon me - i had to prevent eyestrain
so i couldnt read the entire of the lead article :-

will we get access to Diego Garcia ?

.... I don't agree that we should find a place in Uncle Sam's lap. Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Ukraine and many others have been leveraged by US to confront Russia and now it's China's turn. Things didn't end well for any of them.

.... .. US Navy parked in Vizag or Andaman or Mumbai.
a definite no finding a place is usa 's lap
similarly no to giving them access to andaman or nicobar, repair facilities and re-fuelling

limited access on western part of mainland might be ok

bottom line :- if we dont get access to Diego Garcia
then shove the whole idea down the tubes :toilet:
 
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blueblood

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You have a point.

However, the Indian Peninsula commands the sea routes in the Indian Ocean.

And in foreign policy there is no permanent friends or enemy.

We should use the time allowed to us with the US to dominate the Indian Ocean and "Peacefully Rise". ;) :)

US already has Diego Gracia. This will be only a add on without much use by the US navy.
Sir, I am all for shedding the cold war mentality and to embrace the new world order with China as the new USSR but I don't agree that we should find a place in Uncle Sam's lap. Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Ukraine and many others have been leveraged by US to confront Russia and now it's China's turn. Things didn't end well for any of them.

With probably the most sensible government India has ever seen, I am hoping that border issues with China can be resolved to some extent if not entirely which won't be happening with US Navy parked in Vizag or Andaman or Mumbai.
 

blueblood

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Also if any such agreements are to be made then I would rather like to deal with Japan or Australia or South Korea as they are strong enough nations but not as "Kaminey" (for the lack of a better word)
 

Ray

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Sir, I am all for shedding the cold war mentality and to embrace the new world order with China as the new USSR but I don't agree that we should find a place in Uncle Sam's lap. Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Ukraine and many others have been leveraged by US to confront Russia and now it's China's turn. Things didn't end well for any of them.

With probably the most sensible government India has ever seen, I am hoping that border issues with China can be resolved to some extent if not entirely which won't be happening with US Navy parked in Vizag or Andaman or Mumbai.
Allowing logistical support is not joining a military alliance or jumping into anyone's lap.

It is not that the US Navy will 'park' itself as in Oman with a Fleet headquartered and anchor.

It will be merely a port of call for logistic backup for its patrols in the Indian Ocean.

Well that is what I feel is what it means.

I wonder if China wants to solve its border dispute. It solves it only with a stronger neighbour as was with USSR. Everywhere else it tramples others. We can maintain dialogue, but then we have to conjure the correct environment to indicate that it is not a cakewalk.
 

sorcerer

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Sir, I am all for shedding the cold war mentality and to embrace the new world order with China as the new USSR but I don't agree that we should find a place in Uncle Sam's lap. Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Ukraine and many others have been leveraged by US to confront Russia and now it's China's turn. Things didn't end well for any of them.
When we weigh the options, it is quiet apparent that USA has larger roles to play in these parts. Every signal coming out of USA tells the same story.
When we take a look at immiediate neighbors..
1) Srilanka : They will surely blend in with USA for aid, armaments and technology
2)Bangladesh: US is already working with them on many fronts including defence.
3)Pakistan : Well,we know the US - Pak alliance.

When we look further east most countries have strategic alliance with US.
In such an event , India staying isolated is not going to gain India anything. Going with the current happening, India can have a Give and Take policy but still keep her individuality alive.
 

blueblood

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Allowing logistical support is not joining a military alliance or jumping into anyone's lap.

It is not that the US Navy will 'park' itself as in Oman with a Fleet headquartered and anchor.

It will be merely a port of call for logistic backup for its patrols in the Indian Ocean.

Well that is what I feel is what it means.
IMO, it always start like that. Some "help" here and some "minor" demands there, in return. Indian Navy is decades away from acquiring a global footprint and the required logistics. IN's goal for current and near future will be IOR and we do not need USN's logistics assistance for that.

My second point is that we will /can never be UK, Israel or Japan to Americans. The best we will ever be is Turkey or Jordan, i.e. can be discarded any moment now.

I wonder if China wants to solve its border dispute. It solves it only with a stronger neighbour as was with USSR. Everywhere else it tramples others. We can maintain dialogue, but then we have to conjure the correct environment to indicate that it is not a cakewalk.
They might. Sino-Indian border disputes are relatively less complex than the island disputes in East and South East Asia. Solving them would essentially mean a military that is about to become more powerful than Japan will stop breathing down their neck.
 

blueblood

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When we weigh the options, it is quiet apparent that USA has larger roles to play in these parts. Every signal coming out of USA tells the same story.
When we take a look at immiediate neighbors..
1) Srilanka : They will surely blend in with USA for aid, armaments and technology
2)Bangladesh: US is already working with them on many fronts including defence.
3)Pakistan : Well,we know the US - Pak alliance.

When we look further east most countries have strategic alliance with US.
In such an event , India staying isolated is not going to gain India anything. Going with the current happening, India can have a Give and Take policy but still keep her individuality alive.
You make a good point but my reasoning is that let's kick China out from South Asia rather than inviting US in. Let Bangladesh and Sri Lanka host and provide logistics to USN. Let USN enjoy the same berthing privileges as PLAN in the aforementioned countries. Now that would be mad fun.:scared2:
 

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leaving the benefits of this agreement but this will surely hurt India's status as a Non-aligned nation. The world will see us as an US ally not partner.
 

blueblood

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pardon me - i had to prevent eyestrain
so i couldnt read the entire of the lead article :-

will we get access to Diego Garcia ?


a definite no finding a place is usa 's lap
similarly no to giving them access to andaman or nicobar, repair facilities and re-fuelling

limited access on western part of mainland might be ok

bottom line :- if we dont get access to Diego Garcia
then shove the whole idea down the tubes :toilet:
But we don't access to Diego Garcia. We can reach an agreement with Madagascar or Maldives if we do need some kind of berthing rights. It would be a much easier solution.

We already have a Naval listening station in Madagascar.

India activates first listening post on foreign soil: radars in Madagascar - Indian Express
 

Neo

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Interesting development; how's China going to react?
With a mega naval base in Gwadar?
 

Zebra

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leaving the benefits of this agreement but this will surely hurt India's status as a Non-aligned nation. The world will see us as an US ally not partner.


Who cares about "what the world think".
 

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