Religious demographics of Indian Army

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Mad Indian, Feb 1, 2016.

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  1. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    One of the oft-repeated proud facts about the present Indian Armed Forces is that it is secular in nature and has no religious connotations associated with it. But is this a good thing? Question is- does religion and composition of army play any role in the defence of the nation? After all religion is one of the strongest binding forces for any nation. From North east to Kashmir, every state in India where Hindus are in a minority, has an insurgency problem, a fact which cannot be brushed aside as statistical anomaly. If not for the lack of geographical continuity with Pakistan and role of Sardar Patel, Hyderabad would have definitely ended up with Pakistan, due to the religion of the ruler of Hyderabad. The secular ayatollahs in India claim without any sense of reason that Indian Nation state is secular and hence the army of the nation, which is supposed to preserve and protect it, has to be secular as well. It should not discriminate on the basis of religion and allow Muslims among its ranks, even though our primary national threat is a Muslim majority Pakistan, which positions itself as the thekadar (caretaker) of the Muslim world. But the question is- should the army continue with its secular hiring policy and appoint Muslims in high ranking positions? To answer this question one has to look at the history of betrayals by Muslim soldiers when fighting against other Muslim armies, in case their own country was non-Muslim.

    Evidence from Soviet-Afghan war

    Soviet Union is the best case study to look at Muslim behaviour, given it was the pinnacle of a secular and godless society, which India cannot ever hope to achieve. They monitored the mosques and used state appointed bureaucrats to oversee the operation of all mosques in their country to ensure that the Muslims kids raised in their schools got secular education and were taught to put Soviet interests over their own religion. However, despite their strong efforts this secularization crumbled, as soon as they entered the Soviet-Afghan war and got betrayed by a large number of Muslim soldiers.

    At the start of the war, the Soviet high command betted heavily on its Muslim units of Central Asian Origins and deployed them in Afghanistan to help their Afghan Communist allies to ensure better coordination among the Soviet and Afghan soldiers in their fight against the Jihadis, given their language affinity. This was a huge miscalculation on their part because the desertions and betrayals from their Muslim units started as soon as the war broke out. The incompetence of these units was so high, that Soviet Union decided to pull them out just after three months into the war and replaced them with units formed by Slavic soldiers.

    The threats posed by the Muslim soldiers were on different levels- some of them fraternised with the locals, while others were reluctant to fight and some out-rightly showed open disloyalty and joined the ranks of the Jihadis. According to some estimates, the desertion rate was as high as 60-80% during the first year of the war. Since, the Soviets had to replace all their Central Asian Units with European Units, it severely reduced the size of Soviet forces deployed in Afghanistan and left a long lasting impact on this war. Although the Central Asian Muslim troops played a crucial role as interpreters on the field, but post initial desertions they were only deployed in mixed units and formed very small part of counter-insurgency operations. In hindsight one can say that the Soviets learnt their lessons the hard way.

    Evidence from Medieval India

    When the Islamic forces were running amok over entire India, Vijayanagara Empire in the south held on to India’s Hindu roots. The Hindu kings of the empire were fair to all their subjects and did not discriminate on the basis of religion in their day to day activities, so much so that they even hired Muslim soldiers in their ranks. But they were in for a surprise and were betrayed at a crucial moment in the war with Deccan Sultanate at the battle of Talikota. The battle which was going in favour of the Vijayanagara empire was lost when there was a confusion in the middle of the Hindu army, as they got attacked from the back by their own Muslim commanders and soldiers.

    Read more at:

    http://yugaparivartan.com/2016/01/31/why-india-should-not-have-a-secular-army/
     
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  3. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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  4. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    :pound:Typical Hindu behavior. Rather than confront the harsh truth and reality, behave like ostritches[​IMG]
     
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  5. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Or is this the better representation of the behavior?:lol:

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. FRYCRY

    FRYCRY Regular Member

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    money and social engineering done by ISI agents can buy anyone, the recent airman from kerela was a hindu

    ps: muslims in army are already very few in number, no need to worry!
     
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  7. harsh

    harsh Regular Member

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    Well you can't do anything .........
    our nation is secular so does the army we live and die like a secular .

    if anyone oppose the sickular idealogy then he will have a tolerant death by tolerance abide sickular people.

    So I think you can't discuss this because you don't have right to do that in this intolerant country( and it seems countries have sharia laws has more freedom and humanity ). As hindu you should keep quite until you die.

    and yes last time a airman had been caught by agencies but that was a simple case of honey trap

    but for Muslims there is no need to do such exercises because they are ready to that by birth.
    And of course all sickular people ignored the fact that recently agencies had caught 6 army Muslims and spying just because they want sharia and Khalifa and pak land .
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
  8. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    You are back to secular mode again?:lol:

    This is the crucial difference. For turning a hindu into a spy, you need money and sex. For turning a Muslim into a traitor, just a few words on Islam is enough, in addition to money and sex being bonuses . Even then, muslims become anti national spies in a disproportionate number compared to their demographic in Army

    But some retards still cite one or two anecdotes to bring this BS equal equal. Next time, when the Porki army breaks through Indian formations and forces their way with Punjabi women, because the muslims in Indian army betrayed Indian army, just like they had betrayed Marathas when Abdali invaded or like how they betrayed Vijayanagar when Sultanates combined against them, the moronic imbeciles, who dont want to talk about this very real possibility, can rest assured that their women were raped in a halal fashion.


    Am I getting it right so far guys? @Srinivas_K @FRYCRY . Infact, our resident islamist @Agnostic_Indian can verify the halality of the rape of kaffir women.
     
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  9. prasadr14

    prasadr14 Regular Member

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    Depends..

    I come from a military background. Have few muslim friends who are active in the military.
    These muslim friends of mine are pretty forward thinking. One of my better friends from fauj who is a muslim does not behave like a typical muslim we tend to discuss in here.
    His wife is a doctor and I have never known her to wear a Burkha. They have 2 daughters and my muslim friend is pretty happy and stopped at 2. Yeah, his wife works very actively. Socializes with us as a normal woman...

    I would give him the benefit of studying in one of the best schools in India which inculcates modern thoughts and real secular ideas and not the fake ones...

    After Seeing him, to doubt all muslims would be unfair. But yes, the point that religion could be a motivating factor for muslim to turn against India is not far fetched point and CAN be discussed.
    Need to be careful but should not generalize. If any muslim military guy is turning, there would be a lot of signs...
     
  10. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    25000 Balochs under Mir Nasir Khan of Kalat fought on the side of Abdali against Marathas at Panipat.

    [​IMG]


    In 1765, 12000 Balochs under Mir Nasir Khan answered Abdali's call for holy war against Sikhs.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    Remember that in 65 secular army command in Dilli had ordered retreat across Beas. Sikhs obviously ignored this, & took anti tank mines into Lahore to deal with Pattons. So dw, the only 'Punjabi' women being raped will be in Lahore. :)

    Lot of Mid East girls have nice body, reason enough to invade & convert them. :biggrin2:

    We need to get rid of secular nonsense & recruit more men for Sikh & Rajput regiments.
     
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  12. Agnostic_Indian

    Agnostic_Indian Regular Member

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    It's very disturbing to see that the partiotism of indian muslims is questioned by antinationls who thinks that they are some how more indian than muslims as well as other communities in india.
    The allegation is that muslims cannont be trusted in a war with pakistan which is a muslims country, muslims will betray india for islamic ummah. If we are to take this rediculous suggestion and retard logic then we should also eliminate other sections and groups of india who have shown secessionist tendancy, after all it's a question about who all is patriotic, who all believes in india and wanted to be a part of india and who wanted another nation based on other groupe identities.


    Lets see who are they.
    1) khalistani movement,
    The Khalistan movement aims to create a separate Sikh country. The territorial definition of the proposed country ranges from the Punjab state of India to the greater Punjab region, including the Indian Punjab, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and Northern Districts of Rajasthan such as Sri Ganganager and Hanumangarh.

    If we aplly the retard logic and hate propaganda used against indian muslims then we must kick out sikhs from indian army and also ban akali dal since it lead the seperatist movement.


    2) tamil seperatism - Dravida Nadu, also known as Dravidistan or Dravidadesa, was the name of a proposed sovereign state demanded by Justice Party led by E. V. Ramasamy and the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (DMK) led by C. N. Annadurai for the speakers of the Dravidian languages in South Asia.
    Initially, the demand of Dravida Nadu proponents was limited to Tamil-speaking region, but later, it was expanded to include other Indian states with Dravidian speakers in majority (i.e. Andhra Pradesh, Kerala and Karnataka).[1]) Some of the proponents also included parts of Ceylon (Sri Lanka),[2] Orissa and Maharashtra.[3] Other names for the proposed sovereign state included "South India", "Deccan Federation" and "Dakshinapath".[4][5]

    So if we apply the retard logic and hate propaganda used against indian muslims then we should eliminate Tamils from the ranks of indian army.


    3) Assam separatist movements are insurgency movements operating in India's oil-rich state of Assam. The conflict started in the 1970s[2] following tension between the local Assamese and the Indian government over alleged neglect and internal colonisation through its federal centre in Delhi.[3][4] The conflict has resulted in the deaths of 12,000 United Liberation Front of Assam (ULFA) members and 18,000 others.[5][6] The secessionist goals of the separatist movement in Assam have lacked popular support, with most Assamese sympathizing with the separatist groups but not empathizing with their goals.
    So There goes assamese people, they cannot be trusted ever because of the seperatist movements..

    4) Naga nationalism
    Naga nationalism is an ideology that supports self-determination by the Naga people of India and Burma, and the furtherance of Naga culture.[1
    So we successfully eliminated another unpatriotic groupe and saved the nation.
    5)The National Liberation Front of Tripura (or NLFT) is a Tripuri nationalist Christian terrorist organisation based in Tripura, India.[2][3][4][5] It contains an estimated 550-850 members. The NLFT seeks to secede from India and establish an independent Tripuri state, and has actively participated in the Tripura Rebellion. The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand what they describe as the kingdom of God and Jesus Christ in Tripura.[6]
    The NLFT is currently proscribed as a terrorist organisation in India.[7][8]

    So we eliminate people from tripura, especially christians, and we can also use this for propaganda value to claim " since this is basically a christian ideology based seperatist movement it's proof that all christians are antinational, has seperatist tendancy, they will side with western nations or the Vatican church if we ever get into conflict with those nations.So let's remove all the christians too.

    6) Anglo-Indian community in india -
    The term Anglo-Indians can refer to at least two groups of people: those with mixed Indian and British ancestry, and people of British descent born or living in the Indian subcontinent.

    They can never be trusted, no matter how long they live in infia tgry will always be sympathetic towards their colonial ancestors. They can never ve trusted, kick them out of army.

    7) jews in india - although they have served in armed forces and various other fields, ultimately they romanticise holy land of isreal(instead of india) and their jewish identity, they can't be trusted in the army, they are more loyal to isreal thsn india.

    8) communists - Nobody of communist, leftist ideology should be allowed in army, communists in he past were sympathetic to china and criticised indian policies so they will do it again. so ban communist party, and followers from govt, army etc.


    Now let's see the international picture.

    Bangladesh should kick out bangali hindus from army because they cannot be trusted, they will always be sympathetic towards their hindu brothers than to Bangladesh . they also have seperatist movements such as hindu republic of bangabhumi. Islamic extremists can sight this as a valid argument against bangali hindus.

    Other western nations should also immediately kick out people of indian origine or any one of those who adapted any religion of indian origine, or any other religion other than the majority religion or indegious religion.They should also kick out other people who share any kind of ancestry with other nations or races.None can be trusted.

    Not only western nations but every single nation on earth should kick out people of other beliefs, ethinic, race, language, etc from their army as well as government, none of them except the natives/ majority people can be trusted because at the time of a conflict these groups could possibly side with the nations with whom they share a belief, ethnicity, race, etc. It's a matter of national security so let there be a pure uniform majeioritarian state, govt and army. Yeh of course the majoritarian govt will " allow " others to continue to live in those countries if they wish to do so, if not they can migrate to those countries with which they share a link or ideology, but if those countries don't take them in because of the same reasons or because they used to be the citizens of another nations then it's their fate.

    Every nation should also kick out the any groupe ( be it ethnic,linguistic,religious or what ever ) of people from army or govt, who in the past has shown seperatist tendancy based on that groupe identity, they cannot be trusted ever, it doesn't matter if some of them are good, some of them were patriotic and participated in freedom movement or wars, layed down their life or what ever, a few examples like this means nothing.
     
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  13. DingDong

    DingDong Senior Member Senior Member

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    Except Khalistan most of the other movements are political in nature, and most of them including Khalistan movement did not succeed because of demographic factor which includes Dharmic identity.

    You cannot equate Muslims with others, they are a separate species. One comment for not having too many Muslims in defence forces: "Better safe than sorry".
     
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  14. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Tamils did not cite religious reasons to justify their seperatism.

    Sikh seperatism has roots in disenssion that was sowed during colonial era. Sikhs have also sacrificed a lot for the country, unlike Muslims who are a net negative. It was Sikhs like Gill who put down the Khalistan movement. All Muslims do is engage in apologetics and cry victim.

    Look up Assabiyah, there is a theological justification for Muslims to betray their hosts. Ummah comes first.


    بِالسَّنَدِ المُتَّصِلِ إِلى مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ يَعْقُوبَ عَنْ عَلِيٍّ بْنِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنِ النَّوْفَلِيِّ، عَنِ السَّكُونِيِّ، عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِاللهِ عَلَيْهِ السَّلامُ قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِهِ: مَنْ كَانَ فِي قَلْبِهِ حَبَّةٌ مِنْ خَرْدَلٍ مِنْ عَصَبِيَّةٍ بَعَثَهُ اللهُ يَوْمَ القِيَامَةِ مَعَ أَعْرَابِ الجَاهِلِيَّةِ.

    Muhammad ibn Ya’qub (al-Kulayni), from ‘Ali ibn Ibrahim, from his father, from al-Nawfali, from al-Sakuni, who reports on the authority of Abu ‘Abd Allah (Imam al-Sadiq ) (A) that the Prophet (S) said, “Whosoever possesses in his heart ‘asabiyyah (prejudice in any of its forms such as tribalism, racism, nationalism) even to the extent of a mustard seed, God will raise him on the Day of Resurrection with the (pagan) Bedouins of the Jahiliyyah (the pre-Islamic era).”1

    http://www.al-islam.org/forty-hadit...am-khomeini/eighth-hadith-prejudice-asabiyyah
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  15. DingDong

    DingDong Senior Member Senior Member

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    Muslim sepoys and officers of Azad Hind Fauz switched sides overnight after Turkey joined the Allied Forces, they chose Ummah over their own people. Netaji ordered a purge (execution of deserters and spies).
     
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  16. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Only the Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs etc fall for this 'all equality no religion' lie that is told by leftists because we are by nature welcoming, kind-hearted, tolerant and respectful of all cultures of humanity. But as the time passes, it always reveals a hidden agenda of Abrahamic religions to masquerade initially as 'atheist humanists' who when gaining significant influence, slowly start adding praises of their own religions and influence the gullible people.

    This is where Netaji Bose was wrong about the fact that majority muslims would join INA as secular, socialist and syncretic soldiers for India, based on a handful of loyal true soldiers who happened to be Muslims.

    The reality always showed otherwise.

    Though my state joined Indian Union much later, it is important to research truth and tell people about what has been going on.
     
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  17. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    muslims betrayed british indian army in 1919 as well. refused to fight against turkey meanwhile their moplah brothers were slaughtering hindus in kerala for the khilafar and raised the ottoman flag.

    the times, aug 27 1921

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Actually it was.

    And I have been doing deep research on Christian-funded separatism and militancy in India across the nation. Apparently it is not just a problem in my northeast alone. Even our country's south is being targeted, especially by USA,UK and their pet agencies in European countries.

    It is broadly divided into three types of militancies:

    1- Penetrating racial-religious faultlines artificially created using colonial era academic "sources"
    2- Direct funding for terrorist groups like Maoists who work in tandem with missionaries in RED CORRIDORS (ever wondered why missionaries are safe while even police and Hindu charitable institutions like orphanages are targeted).
    3- Creating a racial-linguistic-religious divide and merging as many 'ethnic groups' (a term used by White countries to divide the various peoples of any country) into various branches of Christianity.

    Their DMK-based separatism was also based on a quasi-religious-racial theory that was developed by the British 'scholar' called William Jones and later Herbert Risley who went on to develop a science branch called the RACE SCIENCES, which during colonial times, was designed to break the faultline of how 'Tamils were different from foreign Aryans and how they followed what was called Thomas Christianity'.

    This propaganda was based on the lies that St Thomas came to India in 52 AD and preached Christianity; all while majority scholars in post-independence era cite proof against it who were sidelined for colonial agenda of causing separatism in India.

    This was funded by Theosophical Society of USA and a host of other organizations which created 'Tamil organizations' which were essentially receiving funds from Lutheran Churches in Germany, Evangelical Church agencies in USA as well as in UK.

    Universities such as Harvard, Yale, Cambridge and UC Berkeley were funded to create separate societies of 'Dravidian Tamils (different race from Aryan Indians and Aryan Sri Lankans), originally practising Thomas Christianity'.

    One such organization is FeTNA which was comprised of christian fundamentalists rich financiers of Republican Party of USA who funded militancy of LTTE. One of the biggest backers is Crowell Trust, a fundamentalist christian evangelist foundation targeting disintegration of southern India from rest of India.

    Indians need to stay strong and stay united, trust each other and trust the indigenous faiths of our country no matter what language or sister Indian faiths we belong to.

    Christian militancy is far more deadlier than islamic militancy and is far more ruthless and effective through what it calls 'Atrocity Literature' i.e. portraying native religions and societies as mindless savages and themselves as being the white christian heroes civilizing the world.

    I will further add more sources and instances as a separate thread on Christian threat to India.
     
  19. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    So it was funded by Christians. Fair enough. Abrahamists in general have a hard time maintaining loyalty to their hosts.
     
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  20. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    V.S. Naipaul -

    [​IMG]

    ..........
     
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  21. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Every example you quoted makes no sense. Why?

    1) Most of these separatists are small in number i.e. 2-3%. And even if they get equivalent representation, they can hardly do anything unlike muslims who are 13% and can be a big drag on army if there number goes up from current figure.

    2) None of the separatists have race or religion similar to biggest threat of India. Pak on the other hand is a muslim thekedar of the world and can sway opinion of Indian muslims specially during war.

    3) None of the separatists you mentioned have extra-territorial loyalties and no book is there to guide them. You might not have heard or read, but during '65 and '71 war, there were muslims who would light up lamps during night so that Pakis can bomb Indian cities, even though they would have been destroyed themselves.
     
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