Relation of India and pak

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by johngray123, Jun 18, 2012.

  1. johngray123

    johngray123 Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    May 16, 2012
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
  2.  
  3. Aayush

    Aayush Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    264
    Likes Received:
    117
    Location:
    Delhi
    We don't want to be friends with terrorists
     
  4. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,199
    Likes Received:
    760
    As far as diplomatic cases go the Indo Pak conundrum is one of the toughest ones out there. Needless to say the reasons behind this are numerous and complex. However as in most cases of diplomacy the question is where to go from here.

    As of right now the biggest hurdle is the instability and state of dysfunction in Pakistan. This of course is not just an impediment in the Indo-Pak relationship but all of Pakistan's relationships. Unfortunately there seems to be no solution to this issue in the foreseeable future.

    The best way around this quagmire IMO is for India to concentrate on it's own progress first. South Asia will not become entirely stable unless there's a strong economic power like India to take charge; the caveat of course being that this power has to be benevolent. However first India must be serious and diligent in making itself a true power (instead of just trying to appear like one) through intelligent policy making and critical reform.
     
    Mad Indian, ejazr and W.G.Ewald like this.
  5. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    Best solution for indo-pak quagmire is that make pakistan as world's problem for world to care about.
     
  6. SHURIDH

    SHURIDH Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    293
    Location:
    Murshidabad,Paschim banga,India.
    We can't make friendship with a country who continusly sponsoring terrorism and encouraging religious fundamentalism.
    Pakistan is a gone case.
    The aman ki asha thing is not realistic anymore.
     
  7. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,283
    Location:
    BANGalore
  8. Defcon 1

    Defcon 1 Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,460
    Likes Received:
    444
    Location:
    Lucknow
    Well pakistan exploited all the opportunities it got during the cold war. We are just returning the favour.
     
  9. SADAKHUSH

    SADAKHUSH Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    758
    Location:
    Winterland
    You have already made Pakistan in to world's problem but the with that all the aid is drying up. Latest being $400 million aid stopped by US congress. This is what happens when you try to play USA against China. It is this kind of foolish game that will keep you under Chinese thumbs and day is not far away when your country will look like North Korea of Indian sub-continent.
     
  10. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,199
    Likes Received:
    760
    Could you please explain what you mean by this?
     
  11. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    From 1980 till 2000 only india was center of terrorism which originated in pakistan 1st in punjab then in kashmir and in this period west and usa was in full support for pakistan termed those as freedom fighters.After 9/11 2001 the indian problem became west's problem hence as terror attacks increased in west it sharply came down in india in kashmir.So now india has got the silver bullet to treat terrorism originating from pakistan ie to make it west's problem.Still west is played double standard till 26/11 mumbai attacks when it was only focused on al-qaida and those terror groups which attacked western interests and it called kashmiri groups and L-e-T as strategic assests of pakistan army.Now as same L-e-T is becoming global threat, it again solve the india's terror problem when L-e-T start attacking the west.Actually it has already started with the killing of usa citizens in mumbai.more the L-e-T attacks west sooner it gonna solve india's terror problem as west will itself attack L-e-T then.So solution of terror directed towards india from pakistan is more terror attacks on west and usa.More the western citizens are killed in terror attacks by pakistan based groups more the indian lives will be saved.

    In a sense in period 1980-200 india was sacrificial goat for west to direct all pakistan mujahids to india and save itself from 2001 west itself became sacrificial goat for india.
     
  12. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    12,830
    Likes Received:
    7,522
    Location:
    Podigai Hills.
    :dude: It was never realistic to begin
     
  13. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    12,830
    Likes Received:
    7,522
    Location:
    Podigai Hills.
    :whoa: A Paki apologiser actually accepting that their Pakhana land is the epicenter of terrorism in the world. Hundred likes women:D
     
  14. Not bad .... an analysis ...!!
    Cant Vouch for it ...precisely ...but not bad at all...
    ajtr u do redeem urself ....
    though the language is a tad hazy ..
     
  15. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,283
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Genius :bow:
     
  16. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,199
    Likes Received:
    760
    First, not everything in the world revolves around India. And second, the 9/11 attacks and al qaeda's grievances against the United States have nothing to do with India; I have no idea where you came up with this zero sum calculation connecting the decline in attacks upon India to the rise in attacks in the West. The number of successful attacks in the West have been miniscule while the decline of attacks in Kashmir has been massive. The main reason for the precipitous decline in violence in Kashmir is because of American pressure upon Pakistan, not some offset count of terror attacks in the West.

    The West/ USA wasn't out to divert Pakistan sponsored terrorism toward India as a prophylactic measure (I believe the nationalist theory is that the West did this to "keep India down"... which is both untrue and laughable). The truth of the matter is that India simply did not matter at the time. I won't deny for a second that the US' patronage, or rather unchecked patronage of Pakistan has been cataclysmic; however this wasn't done with India in mind; India was a fleeting thought at best.

    The two things that have changed since 9/11 are 1) The attacks on US home soil and 2) India became a far more influential nation and a major player in global commerce. Whenever a nation becomes economically and socially important the perception toward them changes as do the rules... that is a basic (albeit unfair) fact of life.

    Also, the defining factor in the 26/11 attacks wasn't the killing of Western citizens, but that it was the first time there was undeniable and palpable evidence of the Pakistan connection.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2012
    Tronic likes this.
  17. Tronic

    Tronic Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,915
    Likes Received:
    1,275
    Actually I will have to disagree with you on that. There has been undeniable and palpable evidence against Pakistan all throughout the 90s. Even in Afghanistan, the CIA was well aware that the Taliban had the blessings of the ISI.

    26/11 changed things to the extent that it brought the pain of terrorism in India to Western homes. It was an attack where the terrorists explicitly targeted us all, Indians and Westerners alike, as one group. It changed the western public opinion of terrorist strikes against Indians from a passive issue to a joint shared concern.
     
  18. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    Everything on subcontinent and IOR revolves around India.Thats the one reason it was always called as indian subcontinent.Thats diffrent thing india has not not imposed its equivalence of Monroe doctrine in IOR and didnt kick out USA from Diego Garcia till now.(/11 and alqaida's is just another part of the same coin which was directed towards west by pakistan from afghanistan by taliban's help and one part was was directed towards india through L-e-T and other assorted groups.the hypocrisy of west was while it called alqaida as terrorists and reffered to as L-e-T as freedom fighters and strategic assets whole throughout 1980-2008.9/11 did change west hypocrisy a bit but it concentrated only on terror groups who attacked its interests.otherwise before 9/11 west was totally encouraging Pakistan by calling terror groups as freedom fighters throughout 1980-200 period.26/11 gave west a wake up call were western and israeli citizens were specifically targeted and killed after checking their passports in hotel taj.and in same hotel taj Turkish were left unharmed.

    No its not american pressure on pakistan which reduced militancy in kashmir.It was indian counter terror ops which were successful in kashmir reduced those militancy.Its american habit to take credit away from everyone else.IA can teach some counter-terror lessons to usa too so atleast they can be successful in future war and dot repeat failures like Vietnam,Iraq and Afghanistan.

    It was both patronage and moral support of west that made terror attacks successful in india.BTW it was usa supplied stinger with downed mig-27 in kargil.USA still didnt come clean on david headley lest it will reveal usa's hand in 26/11 rather than pakistan's .There is no secret about usa CIA collaborating with terror groups through out the world.
    India has become more influential coz usa has declined. btw usa never had any influence on india throughout its 64 years.

    Western citizens were targeted and killed after checking their passport.otherwise turkisk couples were left unharmed in the same taj hotel room.Israelis were targeted coz of palestine issue and usa support to israel.And it was not the first time that the evidence of pakistan connection were bought forward it was through out 1990s india bought evidence against pakistan but as usual west kept its head buried in sand untill 9/11.btw omar sheikh who hijacked indian airline plane to karachi then to kabul was the same man who killed daniel pearl after 9/11.Untill dainel pearl's beheading west never cared about omar sheik living happily in pakistan.Another evidence india bought against was illias kashmiri many times in 1990s but west never cared untill he started targeting usa forces in afghanistan.


    So thats why i said only solution to pakistan terror problem against india is that india must direct these terror plots originating from pakistan towards western interests.9/11,london,madrid train blasts,bali bombng may be bad for west but it bought lot of relief to indian citizens.

    bottomline is more the western lives are lost in terror attacks originating from pak more indian lives can be saved.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2012
  19. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,687
    Likes Received:
    2,357
    No, Indians are are fanatics and / or psychopathics to take pleasure in someone else's deaths. Your bottom line is wrong. The bottom line is that terror as an instrument of state policy or as a tactics to wage wars must end in the world all over, its sponsor be USA or Pakistan !! That is Indian bottom line ! That suits two thirds of the countries in the world.

    In our subcontinent itself, terrorism has destroyed peace of almost all countries including Pakistan.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2012
  20. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    First ask usa to come clean on david headley then change the bottomline.
     

Share This Page