Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by President

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Compersion, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    This would be the first thread I have opened. Please excuse any exuberance and the whole humble purpose is to stimulate a good debate.

    The Rajya Sabha has 12 seats that are directly nominated by President.

    NOMINATED MEMBERS OF THE RAJYASABHA

    List of nominated members of Rajya Sabha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Lok Sabha has 2 members that are nominated by President. The Anglo-Indian community is the only Indian community that has its own representatives nominated to the Lok Sabha (Lower House) in India's Parliament.

    There is discussion (rightly) on how the Judges are selected to Supreme Court but not much is discussed on how these 14 are selected and why. Also is it contemporary and up-to-date with the times. With democratic institution and within the purview of the republic the citizens have the right to know and demand that the above is transparent and open to review and not the purview of a single individual but a matter of duty of the institution they represent.

    I personally would like to see the 2 anglo-indian community members abolished since they are no longer needed and it was more a case for transition after independence. I would like to see the 2 seats be given to the Armed forces (make it 3) and the armed forces would choose themselves (in a transparent manner) who these are. These would be for issues that are out of the purview of Defense Minister for example welfare of armed forces personnel. (on side note ** I also feel ex-Pms and ex-Presidents and ex-CJ ought to be automatically given RS seats for life - their viewpoint and reference is of high value).

    Also the 12 seats of RS be split into specific areas and not open-ended ("literature, science, art and social service"). It would be better if they are more specific on 12 areas (for example ex-Pms and ex-Presidents and ex-CJ, Legal, Medicine, Environment ...). Another would be each Ministry had a person nominated by President to offer overview.

    I have no qualms against some of the members nominated but there are some that are absurd when if the process is nomination by the President there ought to be no such issues.

    This question came to foreground not because of Sachin Tendulkar but the one certain actress before him.
     
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  3. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside

    Well mate for political reform in India we need Bang and boom and complete revolution .I am not advocating war but a blood less war....

    Till then our political class wont change because they are cold-hearted and present system favours them
     
  4. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside

    Great reply have to agree with some of your points.

    But what I am getting at is not changing our political system. What i am getting at is making it more fair. Transparent and systematic.

    One can refer to the position of judge in Supreme Court, how is that done is it transparent. And the current system for selecting Supreme Court judge is far better compare to the nomination practices for rajya Sabha members and Anglo indian members.

    14 members of the upper and lower parliament represent a lot. In our history there have been votes on crucial legislation decided by the whisker.

    What I am saying is if you look at how and who the previous nominated members are some are absurd. Sure same can be said for elected lok Sabha members but they came through a vote by the people. Same with other lok Sabha members there is proper procedure.

    The same cannot be said for nominated members and further the need for Anglo india members that one can say is not up to date with the times.

    Another small point is to offer life term rajya Sabha seats to ex pm and ex president and ex cjs. It is a ceremonial issue but significant.

    What I am saying does not require political revolution. One can ask a Supreme Court bench the same and they are left with a vacuum to pass judgement and set procedure and transparency if the legislators do not,

    It is evolution of our political system not revolution. That is the beauty of our constitution.
     
  5. EXPERT

    EXPERT Regular Member

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside

    the points you have made are clear , but the main question arises that how this will happen . .
    We have to do something like ANSHAN or sort of thing at ramleela maidan with huge public to shock these Netas from sleeping . . .
     
  6. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside

    I think present nomenclature of Rajya sabha should be changed.

    I mean instead oh having politicans we should have experts.

    Look experts cannot won on thier own in Lok sabha so why not have them from RS....

    Most of parties field there so called leaders who cant win from loksabha in RS
     
  7. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside

    I am sure if that were to happen things would move fast - great idea. But probably one only needs to have someone set such things in the right direction. I am sure if such items are discussed more and more the next election and administration holds a lot of promise. Already there were some "voices" when Sachin Tendulkar was nominated and discussion was on if he was suitable. But that debate ought to have been wider and more clear. Its a pity because Sachin Tendulkar might be deserving but the people before him might not be (and some are really absurd).

    The selection for nominated people on Rajya Sabha is too open-ended. "literature, science, art and social service". Why not say "any field". It is better they are more specific one each of the 12 seats. 12 different areas of expertise and ability. The institution of President needs to work no matter who is in the seat. It needs to by procedure, transparency and fairness.
     
  8. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside

    Sure that would be a dramatic reform and impact whole of the upper parliament. But the thread at hand only concern about "Nominated" members by the President.

    It is a bit like selection of Supreme Court Judges. These people and selection criteria cannot be held purview to certain individuals and the realiability of their skill and trust in deciding on the appropriate person. It can not be done in secret.

    For example Sachin Tendulkar was selected to be a nominated member of Rajya Sabha. How was that done and why and by whom. It is abstract, and not systematic. It cannot be repeated. The shocking thing is that some-say the President had no say and there was no set procedure and rules on how it was done. Whereas it ought to be clear and procedure in place on how it gets done.

    A bit like how the President is selected. That is clear. A bit like how Rajya Sabha members are elected and Lok Sabha members are elected (not Nominated members). They are clear. Sure like you say there ought to be better members (like experts) but the people vote them in. The experts can enter and there are a few and sure more are needed. In fact the nomination process if improved and evolved will enable more of such experts to enter.

    But the concern is not about the people but the President.

    The President has to take the initiative some-can say and declare that the current process is "open-ended" and needs to be evolved to make sure going ahead people know how, what, and why.
     
  9. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside

    The president does it his imphecement process would start
     
  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside

    There are about 150,000.Anglo Indians in India.

    Given their own unique and distinctive culture, dispersed in penny packets around India and English being their language, they have no hope in hell to ever get any of their members elected to Parliament.

    Would it be correct for the secular democratic India to not have their voice available in the highest seat of democracy?


    Are all ex PMs,. ex President and ex CJI men of knowledge and high integrity?

    If they were so, then there is merit in the suggestion.

    If not, then one should not root for this!
     
  11. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside

    Deleted...........
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  12. pkroyal

    pkroyal Regular Member

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside


    RS Seat from Rajasthan last year was available for sale ( 4.5 crores) according to an insider in one of the political party.
     
  13. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside

    A
    I have to say it is a prety weak argument sir.

    Only because thay have a unique culture they should be given TWO LS seats? Thete are many uniqe groups with their own unique style and etc. So should all of them be given yheir own seats? At least if the seats were one of the RS seats it could have been grudgingly acceptable, but LS seats - each of which generally represents 2-3 lakh of people and hard fought and have a direct representation in forming the govt. should not be given to a particular group of people w/o contest.

    This concession is but a nostalgia of colonialism which should be thrown out. The anglos has as much right to fight in election under any of the political parties as any others and responsibility of the same. They should not be given access to our highest fora of democracy for free just because they have our previous masters' blod running through them. Actually it is kind of humiliating that just because those people have the brits as their ancestors they shiuld be treated special?
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside

    Valid.

    Now, which are the other unique communities who should be given nominations?

    Do you really think that those who speak English, as their mother tongue can get elected in General Constituencies?

    Did you not see what happened to Nilekeni in Bangalore because he tried to explain himself in English and even though is a Konkani from Karnataka and a Bangalorean ?

    And what is so Colonial about it? Just because some ancestor was a European?

    I might inform you that Anglo Indians as enunciated in our Constitution means anyone with European descent and not merely English!

    Therefore, even those of German and Portuguese descent comes under the term 'Anglo Indian'.

    I find it rather perplexing that there is this tendency of clubbing anything having a whiff of non generic undiluted Indian origin (or what is taken to be of pure Indian origin) conveniently gets clubbed as 'Colonial'.

    That way, even our writing in English on this forum and elsewhere is 'Çolonial'.

    The computers that we use are instrument that perpetuate our Colonialism since they are in English alphabets. So is Windows and so many things!

    But it suits our convenience to forget that these are also vestiges of Colonialism since they are predominantly catering for the English Language!
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
    happy likes this.
  15. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside

    I will be frank to state that I look forward to a vibrant India, that is contemporary and relevant in the global environment, ready to take on the world.

    Hence, I do not like carry baggages of fear, distrust, obsessive aversions that actually cramp freedom of thought and action.

    Indian society is highly embracing and open in accepting one and all as also all types of ideas.

    That is why even the barbaric conquerors and those who ruled us and their ways have been assimilated within the Indian society.

    We do not say Moghul culture or Moghulism, so why bother about colonialism? It is dead and gone.

    Our love for Moghul cuisine does not make us Moghul lackeys, does it?

    Though some may feels so, like Togadia or Singhal.

    But the majority of India rejects such narrow mindedness.

    Can we say that the Muslims of India are but the legacy left behind by the Muslim ruler and so they should be rejected, as we reject anything that has a whiff of the Raj Days/

    Why, there is a feeling that the Moguls were more cruel and unjust than the British.

    Added Later: I hope people take this post in the correct spirit in which I have written, wherein it is more of a general comment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  16. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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  17. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Reform of Rajya Sabha and Lok Sabha - nominated members by Preside

    The point you are making is fair. The 150,000 Anglo Indians are respected and are held in high regard and they do prosper. But the purpose behind the 2 Anglo Indian seats is not to make sure they have a voice. Each and every citizen has a voice in India and has appropriate means. The 2 anglo indian seats i believe are in the lok sabha. Unlike the 12 nominated seats that are in rajya sabha. That is a total 14 seats nominated by the President.

    The reason behind the 2 Anglo Indian seats somesay is not up-to-date and in with the times. Our independence was over 60 years ago and the composition and reasons for such are privy to those times that need to evolve with the situation. Also there is the main question of how the 2 seats are choosen and nominated (the main theme of this thread). Obviously the community does not have a say and in fact it is not clear who has a say except for "the President" which is not transparent, fair and can lead to some absurd nominations and selections. Since it is not a "Person" per se but the "President" that is the equivalent of saying "Republic of India" is making the choice and all the people of India. The "Republic of India" is not dependent on the character and personality of a individual(s). There has to be proper rules and procedures for such.

    Further where does one draw a line. 2 seats in the lower parliament is not a small amount further the other 12 nominated seats is a big amount. Further there are many groups that might smarten themselves and request similar arrangements. There was nothing wrong at the time to give 2 seats to anglo indian to demonstrate the lineage and appropriate positioning of such groups at that time. There was also nothing wrong with the maharajahs being given the privileges after independence that was subsequently evolved.

    I would personally like to see the 2 seats be given to the Armed forces (make it 3) and the armed forces would choose themselves (in a transparent manner with proper rules and procedures) who these are. The Armed forces need to be made a part of the parliament and be represented accordingly. But this might be a out-of-box thinking.

    I believe there has to be a formal lineage and putting together a connection between ex-pm, ex-president and ex-cjs with the upper parliament. This is borne from the fact that the current pm, president and cj will benefit from such avenue and be monitored. Also it is astonishing that ex-pm, ex-president and ex-cjs fade away and offer nothing afterwards and consequent to them leaving their office when it ought to be opposite and they be consulted and approached more.

    The posts they hold brings with them important viewpoints and reference that are of high value. They can also offer a powerful voice. also it would strengthen and progress and enhance the importance of these positions even to the description that when one is chosen for such a post the eligibility of them having roles after they leave their office is significant. These are positions that are constitutionally important and they need to have appropriate overview and balance and checks even after they have left office. Why must the Republic depend on only the current pm, cj, and president.

    The question is not about knowledge and high integrity (when that ought to be a norm) but about putting in place mechanism within the upper house of parliament that would be up-to-date and in with the times through evolving and being able to perform its duties like it was designed to.

    But personally the above suggestion would be difficult to implement since it would go against the current rules and procedures and "life-terms" are something that is not customary to India and also one can say being a ex-pm, ex-president, and ex-cj the voice is powerful enough outside the upper house.

    But the same does not hold for the nominated seats. The ways these are selected and the rules and procedures and reasons can be evolved within the current structure.

    When the next individuals are nominated people have to ask why. It cannot be open-ended criteria. It is really aburd how and why some of them were chosen and to see them in the upper house of parliament is a joke especially if they were selected by the President - that is the Republic of India - that is all of the people of India.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014

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