Red Cross accused India of widespread torture in J&K: WikiLeaks

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by SHASH2K2, Dec 17, 2010.

  1. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Red Cross accused India of widespread torture in J&K: WikiLeaks



    SINGAPORE: Security forces in Kashmir beat suspects, subjected them to electric current and tortured them with water in widespread human rights abuses, the Red Cross told the US embassy according to a leaked diplomatic cable.

    The 2005 cable, released by WikiLeaks and published by the Guardian, documents systematic prisoner abuse by Indian police and paramilitary forces based on visits the International Red Cross made to detention centres in Kashmir and elsewhere between 2002-2004.

    It said that among 1,500 detainees that the Red Cross staff met, more than half reported "ill-treatment". Of the 852 cases the agency recorded, 171 detainees said they had been beaten, while the rest said they had been subjected to one or more of six forms of torture.

    These included use of electricity on suspects, suspending them from the ceiling and putting a roller or a round metal object on the thighs of the person and then having somebody sit on it, crushing muscles. Others had their legs stretched 180 degrees, or were subjected to various forms of water torture. More than 300 cases of sexual abuse were reported.

    "There is regular and widespread use of IT (ill-treatment) and torture by security forces during interrogation. This always takes place in the presence of officers," the cable said.

    The Red Cross said that it had raised the issue of prisoner abuse with the Indian government for more than a decade, but because the practice continued, "it is forced to conclude that the GOI condones torture".

    Although the allegations relate to 2002 to 2004, they are likely to ruffle feathers in the Indian government, which bristles at any external involvement in Kashmir which it considers an integral part of the country.

    They disclosures come at a time when popular anger is simmering in Kashmir over abuse by security forces, even though militant violence that New Delhi blames on Pakistan has fallen.

    This summer the Kashmir Valley, at the heart of 60 years of hostility between India and Pakistan, saw the biggest student protests against Indian rule in decades after a 17-year-old died when he was hit by a police tear gas shell.

    The region has since quietened, and India says it will release the contours of a political solution to the protests in a few months, which some analysts say will involve greater autonomy for the region.

    Leaked U.S. diplomatic cables also reveal that India remained steadfast in its belief that the Mumbai attacks of 2008 carried out by Pakistan-based militants had some kind of support from Pakistan security agencies and that Islamabad had done very little to act against the guilty.

    According to a January 2009 cable, the Indian Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon reacted strongly to U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for South Asia Richard Boucher saying during a meeting that Washington had not yet reached the conclusion that the Pakistani security agencies were directly involved in the attacks, carried out by the Lashkar-e-Taiba group.

    "Let's not insult one another by telling a story that the Pakistan Army was not involved," said Menon, according to the cable.

    "The Pakistan Army paid wages to Lashkar-e-Taiba and sustained the organization, and until these ties were severed, India would continue to regard the Pakistani security services as complicit in the Mumbai attacks," the cable quoted Menon as saying.

    Menon concluded, "They're either unwilling to take action, or incapable, or both; any way you look at it, they're involved."

    Another U.S. embassy cable quoted Home minister P Chidambaram as telling FBI Director Robert Mueller in February this year Pakistan had "done damn near nothing" to prosecute the Mumbai suspects.

    Pakistan denies state involvement and has put seven men on trial over the attacks.

    Read more: Red Cross accused India of widespread torture in J&K: WikiLeaks - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...kiLeaks/articleshow/7117017.cms#ixzz18MciX67C
     
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  3. IBM

    IBM Regular Member

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    Democracy does not mean that you have right to revolt against the state. What USA doing in all over the world, China in there western provinces or pakistan in balouchtistan or FATA is no different wat we are doing in Kashmir. These kashmiri people does't not know that there future is bright if they live with india rather than with begger pak.
     
  4. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    I have to say that in J&K paramilitary forces are main reason for this all mess..

    And usually Army is always rounded up for their work..
     
  5. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    These Human Rights ****heads should go to POK and then whine about Jammu & Kashmir.
    Kunal, whoever messes this up is to be entirely neglected. This is my POV. We all know that ISI, PA are involved in the unrest in J&K. Time's running out, we should deal with those separatists and alike with a heavy hand. If we cannot cut off the snake's head, let's atleast de-fang it. If we eliminate those anti India scums in J&K, that will be a message loud and clear to all around the world that - KASHMIR is our land and we're not gonna give an inch of it nor do we want to talk about it. Let Human Rights Organizations rant, for once I pray GoI is strong willed. Crush this once and forever!
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2010
  6. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    These "revelations" are hardly surprising. No matter how much of a blind eye Indians want to turn to this issue it will not change the fact that extra judicial violence at the hands of the Indian security forces has been an ongoing issue. Granted it was far worse in the 90s; but that doesn't change that fact that it happened and that it still happens to this day.

    Admitting that mistakes were made and undertaking immediate corrective action is far better than rejecting reality just because it does not fit the narrative of the nation's self image.

    It is also pointless and counter productive to react to harsh news by diverting the issue and/or blame. So what if Indian soldiers beat, rape and torture innocent Kashmiris... Pakistan does this in Balochistan, China does this in the Xinjian province etc etc.. It's even worse to dehumanize the whole issue "these bloody Kashmiris need to be taught a lesson." What a load of crap, this has no bearing upon the fact that the Indian state is culpable in certain grotesque crimes. The sooner people face reality the better it will be for everyone.

    Things can be changed around, and they should. Aspiring "global powers" lose credibility when they use medieval tactics to resolve disputes.
     
  7. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    What does wikileaks say about the 1 million Iraqis and afghans killed by US/NATO troops or as an indirect result of the wars??
     
  8. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    @Energon - What about the inhumane treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay detention camp? Why was Iraq attacked in the first place? It's not nice coming from a citizen of a country that has blood of millions of innocents in it's hands. Talk about morals! BS!
     
  9. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    All of these things are terrible. It has cost us our credibility and most probably our empire. That however has no bearing upon the topic at hand. Like I said, deflection is pointless.
     
  10. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Energon think about the stress the guys are already under at this border, considering this I think they have done a decent job. If they don't accuse India of this then greenpeace will come and accuse a soldier of inhumane treatment of animals for stepping on an ant.
     
  11. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    I know deflection is pointless. I was just trying to make the point that when it is a matter of National Integrity, even dogs mark their area with their piss. I would also like to draw your attention as to why there are no internal unrest in US, apart from the sometimes loose Pakistanis trying to detonate a car bomb? This is because US of A has an aggressive stand towards their country and it's policies. GoI should also for a while bar media & human rights from J&K and settle this unrest forever. GoI needs to deal with this with an iron fist. Believe me, 99.999% of Indians will support this.
     
  12. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    LF it says that we can do just about anything but you cannot do anything unless we tell you to do that.
     
  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The Red Cross has given details or is it a generalised statement?
     
  14. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    There is no argument here. Stress- battle fatigue and concomitant psychological conditions are responsible for the crimes in the first place. This isn't the excuse, it's the cause. It is an established fact that large military deployments in an inhabited region guarantees extrajudicial violence and other crimes. Not only is this true for hostile occupations but also in friendly conditions such as Allied troops in France and the Netherlands right after WWII. At some point troop deployments become a liability if the military operation isn't followed up with a robust political one. Hence the answer here isn't to justify the crimes committed by the security personnel, but to initiate political solutions as boldly and quickly as possible.

    This is a gross misnomer. The United States foreign policy and domestic governance are diametrically opposite. The reason life in the US is so great isn't because a hyper nationalist government rules with an iron fist. It's because a benevolent government does everything in its power to facilitate opportunity to all its inhabitants, both citizens and immigrants, regardless of race, religion or ethnicity. Other than the few nutjobs you've mentioned, most Muslims in the US refrain from extremism and violence because they know they will never have it as good anywhere else, and certainly not in the Islamic world. The same is true about all the people who line up outside the US consulates praying for green cards, they don't want to come here & live in an oppressive nation, but rather a liberal one where they can live the life and enjoy the opportunities not afforded to them in their own countries.

    The reason 99.999% of Indians would support such a ridiculous notion is because they take their own freedom for granted. It is very easy to dehumanize and rule someone else with an iron fist.

    Clamping down on the thankless separatist Bengali babus and "teaching them a lesson" was the standard livingroom talk for Pakistanis at home and abroad in the late 60s. Their government even followed through with these machinations and did exactly what you're prescribing here. Look how well that turned out.
     
  15. gogbot

    gogbot Regular Member

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    What is the big revelation , i though it was an open fact we use torture.

    Until our Security forces improve their equipment
    Intelligence sources get more widespread and hi-tech
    And the Judiciary is far more powerful through amendments

    I think torture may have to be a necessary part of the process.

    Our situations and threats are such , complete ban of such practices will deteriorate the current security situation.
     
  16. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Torture or use of force is a harsh reality and every force uses it . This has nothing to do with eqipments. Better and sophisticated equipments you have more you rely on torture . Finest example is USA forces operating across the globe. You cannot find any force better equipped than them and their war attrocity or Iraq and Afghanistan record speaks for them .

    IMHO red cross is a tool of western world to force us to accept our mistake and in the meanwhile their attrocities go unnoticed.
     
  17. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    The reason why Human Rights losers whine so much about India is because they know we are a weak government and they can get away with it. They won't dare to meddle in US military affairs the way they do in India or dare they antagonize Chinese or Russian or even Israeli counter-terror efforts. Once we blow up a couple of HRC shitbags as "abetting in terrorism" and give them the treatment terrorists get, all the rest of these dogs will shit in their pants and not come to India.
     
  18. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Well Wikileaks released the Afghanistan War Logs and Iraq War Logs that show in vivid details about this.

    Collateral murder is the name of the video given to American Apache chopper video who shot a group of journalists and then a van even though they had no threat from them. You can see the video on youtube

    Checkout the full documentary on wikileaks here Wikileaks documentary - Must Watch
     
  19. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I mentioned this elsewhere,
    I think everyone would understand that HR violations would have occurred in Kashmir. Infact, the 1990s was the worst. In conflict situation it happens.

    What is good to note is that ICRC notes that improvements are being made as noted in parts of the cable
    Also there are plans to pass a torture bill through in the next session. That should also help in curtailing the practice of torture.

    The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Nation | Death for death in torture bill
     
  20. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    This torture news is not really hitting the headlines, are we condoning it ?
     
  21. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    There are always two sides of the coin but organisations like Red Cross would always point fingers at the Govt. as it is an easy target.

    However the Indian state has never been in denial and these allegations have been investigated and if found guilty action has been taken against the concerned people. And it is also true that a majority of such complaints have turned out to be bogus. Unfortunately such reports do not highlight this and are released in such a way as if Torture is a part of ROE of the Indian security forces.
     

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