Rasgulla: A Bengali creation claimed by Odiyas

[Kharavela]

Interesting. Odiya people live in AP and have demanded second language status for Odiya.

Odiyas in AP

No offence, but entire AP was part of Kalinga Empire.
Vishakapatnam is originally विशाखा पाटणा meaning Town of Vishaka (a milkwoman who served Kalinga Army during war)
Vijaywada is originally बिजय बाहुडा meaning Return after Victory
Several other examples are there.

 

[pmaitra]

Sir, Magadha surrendered unequivocally to the mighty army of Mahameghavahana Aira Kharavela. Pushamitra Shrunga was lucky first time that Emperor Kharavela heard of Greek attack on western frontier & changed his route to kick out Greeks. On his return, he camped outside Magadha & called for Pushamitra Shrunga. Magadha surrendered & Kalinga-Jin returned to its original place.

On the face of 3 lakh infantry, 2 lakh cavalry & 1.5 lakh longbowmen, no contemporary king dared to fight with Emperor Kharavela.

If you look at the olden days, many regions have defeated and conquered other regions. It is generally believed that Ashoka defeated Kalinga, but that is besides the point. Actually, Kalinga was indeed a powerful kingdom, and what you are mentioning belongs to a time that was before Ashoka became Emperor. I think Ashoka wanted to invade Kalinga because it was the only region that was till then undefeated by the mighty Mauryan Empire.

 

[Kharavela]

The Jana Gana Mana was composed by Kobiguru R. Tagore and Vande Mataram was taken from Bankim Chandra`s Anandamath. Both were originally written in Bengali.

Just coincidence, my dear. Though there are no proofs with me, but I've heard the following from a octogenarian Congressi who had worked in Sabarmati Ashram of Gandhi during my college days (1993-94):

"One day Jawahar Lal Nehru visited Odisha in the post Independence period. He had to address a rally somewhere. On that occasion some students of nearby school sang the song "सर्वेषां नो जननी भारत धरणी कल्पलतेयम" written by कवि राधानाथ राय.
Pundit Nehru was so much impressed with the lyric of the song that he requested to repeat the song once more. After listening to the song he regretted that why this song was not sent to the selection committee who were in charge of selecting our National Anthem. Had this song been sent to the selection committee in time, कवि राधानाथ राय's song would have become our National Anthem."
Link for the lyrics:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwGFUdCHur_Idk9yV19EQnZNbDA/view?usp=sharing

 

[Kharavela]

If you look at the olden days, many regions have defeated and conquered other regions. It is generally believed that Ashoka defeated Kalinga, but that is besides the point. Actually, Kalinga was indeed a powerful kingdom, and what you are mentioning belongs to a time that was before Ashoka became Emperor. I think Ashoka wanted to invade Kalinga because it was the only region that was till then undefeated by the mighty Mauryan Empire.

No no Sir. Magadha surrendered to Kalinga after 200 years of Ashoka. He took away "Kalinga-Jin" (Jain idol worshipped by Kalinga Kings). The Kalinga war was so fierce that even Kalinga Queen Karubaki lead the army after death of his husband in the battlefield. She also met "Veergati" & the war ended.

We were defeated, but not without fighting till our last man was standing. To avenge that defeat, Chedi dynasty prepared themselves for 200 years.

 

[Kharavela]

Lived there for years. Speak and read as well.

Nice to know that, Sir. May I know little more about you & the places you lived in Odisha ?

 

[Kharavela]

I had no idea about Netaji, but Jayadeva I remember reading about:

The controversy regarding the nativity of Jayadeva, according to Late Pandit Nilamani Mishra is hardly one hundred year old. After Orissa had lost its identity towards the beginning of the 19th century, its social and cultural life was vitiated by a number of economic and political factors. Therefore, its cultural materials were wrongly used by the scholars from outside.

Yeah, true. Bengal gladly welcomed Clive to get relief from tyranny of Sirajudaula. But Odisha was fighting with British and was the last province defeated by Brits on 1803.

Thus, the Brits appointed their slave Bengali babus to rule Odisha.

 

[pmaitra]

No no Sir. Magadha surrendered to Kalinga after 200 years of Ashoka. He took away "Kalinga-Jin" (Jain idol worshipped by Kalinga Kings). The Kalinga war was so fierce that even Kalinga Queen Karubaki lead the army after death of his husband in the battlefield. She also met "Veergati" & the war ended.

We were defeated, but not without fighting till our last man was standing. To avenge that defeat, Chedi dynasty prepared themselves for 200 years.

You are right. My mistake.

Ashoka Maurya: 269 BCE to 232 BCE
Khārabēḷa (Khāravēla): 193 BCE to 170 BCE

Yes, he defeated Demetrius I at Magadha, who is also referred to as Yavana (an Indonym for Ionian, although many people in DFI staunchly deny any foreign blood amongst Indians, but that is left for another debate), and later defeated Magadha and recovered Jain idols. This happened after the decline of the Mauryan Empire, which we all know happened soon after Ashoka.

Nice to know that, Sir. May I know little more about you & the places you lived in Odisha ?

Bhubaneswar. I know new Bhubaneswar (Master Canteen to Chandraka Forest) like the back of my hand. I have had the privilege of being chased by wild elephants as well. Have friends there. Baramunda, IRC Village, Nayapalli, Chandrashekharpur, BJB Nagar, Vani Vihar, etc.. I used to frequent A. K. Mishra.I bought my bike from Mancheswar. Been to Cuttack a couple of times, and of course, Puri.

That's about all I can share online.

 

[pmaitra]

Yeah, true. Bengal gladly welcomed Clive to get relief from tyranny of Sirajudaula. But Odisha was fighting with British and was the last province defeated by Brits on 1803.

Thus, the Brits appointed their slave Bengali babus to rule Odisha.

That is one interpretation because Siraj was Muslim. However, that is not entirely true.

You can refer to the Battle of Plassey, where Siraj's Army fought against the British. He had several commanders, mainly Muslims, but two were Hindu, and the soldiers were also predominantly the same religion as the commander. He was betrayed by one Muslim Mir Jaffar, but his Hindu commanders remained loyal. Of course, he was also aided by French artillerymen under St. Frais.

I don't think his rule can be called tyranny, although, as it is usual with kings in general, he did commit few excesses.

 

[Kharavela]

Well if Oriyas had some self respect they should not be singing the national anthem and national song composed by Bengalis in the Bengal language.

Let me tell you the Self-respect of Odia people:

1) In the entire history, we never surrender to anybody without fighting till our last man. Neither we surrender to Mughals nor Britishers. "Bengalis Did".

2) You mentioned that Bengalis wrote National Songs for so many Countries. Good. But do you have your own State song ? "We have वन्दे उत्कल जननी" as our Official State Song.

 

[Kharavela]

That is one interpretation because Siraj was Muslim. However, that is not entirely true.

You can refer to the Battle of Plassey, where Siraj's Army fought against the British. He had several commanders, mainly Muslims, but two were Hindu, and the soldiers were also predominantly the same religion as the commander. He was betrayed by one Muslim Mir Jaffar, but his Hindu commanders remained loyal. Of course, he was also aided by French artillerymen under St. Frais.

I don't think his rule can be called tyranny, although, as it is usual with kings in general, he did commit few excesses.

Sir, I am not at all looking / commenting from Hindu / Muslim angle. Robert Clive had mentioned himself about the Hero's Welcome he got while entering Murshidabad. Had the 5 lakh people waiting in the roadside had thrown one stone each, rule of British would have ended then & there.

Why common populace of Murshidabad welcomed Clive by rose petals & not stones ?? Is it because Sirajudaula was a loving Nawab to the citizen ??

 

[Kharavela]

Yes, he defeated Demetrius I at Magadha

Sir, I would suggest a small correction: Demetrius was defeated near Mathura & was chased out of Indian borders.

 

[pmaitra]

Sir, I would suggest a small correction: Demetrius was defeated near Mathura & was chased out of Indian borders.

Not sure what this means, but this is what Wiki says:

• In the 8th year of his reign, (His Majesty) attacked Rajagriha in Magadha and forced the Indo-Greek king Demetrius (described as the Yavana king ("Yavana-raja") named Dimi{ta}) to retreat to Mathura.

Looks like Kharavela attacked Demetrius in Magadha, and Demetrius ran away to Mathura.

Rajagriha is Rajgir, and it is in present day Bihar, not far from Patna. I have been there as well, as I have lived in Bihar too.

 

[pmaitra]

Sir, I am not at all looking / commenting from Hindu / Muslim angle. Robert Clive had mentioned himself about the Hero's Welcome he got while entering Murshidabad. Had the 5 lakh people waiting in the roadside had thrown one stone each, rule of British would have ended then & there.

Why common populace of Murshidabad welcomed Clive by rose petals & not stones ?? Is it because Sirajudaula was a loving Nawab to the citizen ??

You are correct. A section of the population were happy to see Siraj go. This is one section of the population. Another section of the population were loyal to Siraj.

This is a fundamental problem of a regime that does not enjoy the confidence of all its subjects.

Regarding rose petals, well, it might be true, or it could be exaggeration, considering it was Clive beating his own drum.

Many of the British invaders who came to India were consummate liars.

Lord Dalhousie, for example, was a thug, who was sent to India as punishment. Something happened in India, something quite different was reported back to London.

I don't want to derail this thread, but please read about what the British did to the Tibetans when British India invaded Tibet, and what they reported back to London. Of course, their lies were exposed later on.

Then there was the sati ritual. London had no idea what was happening in India and the British officials consistently lied or refused to tell the truth to London, that ultimately, someone had to write directly addressed to the Queen.

 

[Simple_Guy]

No offence, but entire AP was part of Kalinga Empire

I am not from AP...lol.

What about temple architecture for which Orissa is famous? Any influence on neighboring regions?

 

[bose]

Let me tell you the Self-respect of Odia people:

1) In the entire history, we never surrender to anybody without fighting till our last man. Neither we surrender to Mughals nor Britishers. "Bengalis Did".

Was Orissa out of British India map ? or Orissa gave up to British without a fight ?

2) You mentioned that Bengalis wrote National Songs for so many Countries. Good. But do you have your own State song ? "We have वन्दे उत्कल जननी" as our Official State Song.

Why should Bengal have a official state song ?? There is a national anthem and that is supreme for all states...

Try for once to listen to the song : "Amaar Sonaar Bangla Ami Tomae Bhalo Bashi " ... what better tribute one can give ??

 

[Kharavela]

Regarding rose petals, well, it might be true, or it could be exaggeration, considering it was Clive beating his own drum.

Many of the British invaders who came to India were consummate liars.

Sir, I do agree with you about exaggeration & Brits being pathetic liars. But I was highlighting the following:

Had the 5 lakh people waiting in the roadside had thrown one stone each, rule of British would have ended then & there.

I don't want to derail this thread, but please read about what the British did to the Tibetans when British India invaded Tibet, and what they reported back to London. Of course, their lies were exposed later on.

Though I've not read the subject extensively, I do know the outlines. I will definitely read this subject.
Moreover, I understand the mess left by Brits in the subcontinent (Durand Line, McMohan Line, Partition etc).

 

[jackprince]

Kya bakchodi hai. i belong to Odisha and indeed many Odias do not like bengalis and think they are pretentious pricks and full of women who are ready to fight at the drop of pin . For rest it doesnt matter , Come to nayagada and have a chena poda after enquiring about the best hotel , or a chena jhilli , for me i like rasmalei is best.

True. You cannot just wish away provincialism, and it is fact of human society that every where people tends to form a group and there's always some kind of resentment/dislikes to other groups form over times. Even two districts in a same state will have different attitude towards each people. In Bengal the Odiyas are seen as crass and dirty, particularly by the older folks, which definitely is not true, at least not as a generalisation!

However, the fact remains that Rasagolla will remain universally known as a Bengali sweet, whatever else mey be done in legal terms! People will always be asking for Bengal's Rasagulla - more specifically Kolkattar Rasagolla (I hate that).

 

[Kharavela]

Not sure what this means, but this is what Wiki says:

Looks like Kharavela attacked Demetrius in Magadha, and Demetrius ran away to Mathura.

I have quoted from a well researched book on Emperor Kharavela, not from Wiki.

Rajagriha is Rajgir, and it is in present day Bihar, not far from Patna. I have been there as well, as I have lived in Bihar too.

Sir, after so much conversation on various historical events & issues, at least you could have trusted my understanding of History w.r.t. Rajagriha. It was Capital of Magadh prior to Pataliputra.

 

[Kharavela]

True. You cannot just wish away provincialism, and it is fact of human society that every where people tends to form a group and there's always some kind of resentment/dislikes to other groups form over times. Even two districts in a same state will have different attitude towards each people. In Bengal the Odiyas are seen as crass and dirty, particularly by the older folks, which definitely is not true, at least not as a generalisation!

Provincialism sans HATE is good for all provinces as it encourages competition among them to achieve higher goals. But the lines similar to the one highlighted in RED above are dangerous for राष्ट्रीय एकता |

 

[pmaitra]

I have quoted from a well researched book on Emperor Kharavela, not from Wiki.



Sir, after so much conversation on various historical events & issues, at least you could have trusted my understanding of History w.r.t. Rajagriha. It was Capital of Magadh prior to Pataliputra.

You are right. Long before, Ajatshatru had moved the capital from Magadha from Rajgir to Pataliputra. This incident of Kharavela defeating Demetrius I happened after the collapse of the Mauryan Empire and during the Shunga period. The capital of the Mauryan Empire as well as Shunga Empire was Pataliputra.

In any case, wherever Demetrius was defeated, the point is he was defeated.