Rajiv Gandhi:When a giant tree falls, the earth below shakes

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by SLASH, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. SLASH

    SLASH Senior Member Senior Member

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    What if Narendra Modi were to make a statement like that? How would the Congress react? How would the media react to it? Why aren't questions being asked about the Sikh riots vis a vis Gujrat riots?
     
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  3. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    What if NM was to make that statement? PM dream over.
     
  4. Vyom

    Vyom Seeker Elite Member

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    I was just reading this article by Kanchan Gupta of the Pioneer, a good read in this context.

    Agent Provocateur: False gods of secularism

    You would notice that the media is very interested in knowing and highlighting even the smallest of factors that can be detrimental to BJP, they were never interested so much to know the truth behind Sonia's recent vacation.
     
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  5. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    That statement was made by none other than Rajeev Gandhi in context of SIkh Riots after Indira Gandhi murder . People from that family are still best seculars ever born in history of India. When people elect a murderer like Rajeev gandhi who had guts to rub chilli powder on wounds of victims Narendra modi is much better on any given day.
     
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  6. Pokemon

    Pokemon New Member

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    Ravi Shankar Prasad tossed this statement again......

    However good timing.
     
  7. Param

    Param Senior Member Senior Member

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    I still cannot believe how someone could make a statement like that and get away.
    Some times I think the public deserves what they get. After the Pogrom they elected the same murderers with a record Majority.

    .
     
  8. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    Now everyone here start thanking the Tigers :D
     
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  9. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    A very interesting analysis done in First Post. Basically he is comparing sins of omission and commission in the Godhra Case and the 2 G Case. In one corner is NM who either looked away or did not order the cops to take action, while on the other hand are the PM/PC duo who knew the about the Rot under A Raja but choose to either look away or chose inactivity. In one case the evidence is on the table and in the other case there is no evidence but we know whom the media and others have tried and convicted.

    The case against PM and Chidu is same as case against Modi

    If you extend the analogy to RG and the dark days of 1984, we have parallels but we refuse to see the light at the end of the tunnel
     
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  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The statement apart, what I saw was that:

    When the DFI fell to cyberattack, those who perpetuated it, shook!

    Shake, Shook and Shaken or so it appeared!
     
  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    One is a case where men died.

    The other is a case of skulduggery and cheating. Nation died?

    One is physical and the other may affect us in the long run!

    I think we will wait for Dr Subramanium Swamy's opinion.

    This 2G is getting murkier!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  12. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    Actually I do. Rajiv Gandhi's death was good for Indian democracy. In fact we never had real democracy under the rule of Gandhi Dynasty, never will have. Let us put a final nail in the coffin by not electing the Prince and the Queen in the next election. Let us show some maturity.
     
  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    One can justifiably dislike the Nehru Gandhis, but then the question is how did that fellow VP Singh help democracy?

    He divided the already divided society and now we have his legacy of more and more people demanding that they are the deprived lot and so they require reservations.

    I was amused to learn that Jats also qualify as OBCs!! :eek:

    In fact, the harm this silly man VP Singh has done to the country none have even equalled.

    What about the so called 'humble farmer', Gowda?

    Or Chandrasekhar?

    These chaps are hardly icons for preservation of democracy!

    In short, they are all the same!
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    As far as Modi is concerned, we are quite aware that in this country, nothing comes out of any enquiry since everything is politically motivated.

    Therefore, one can never say what really happened and why and who did it!

    Had the country been sanitised from the ISI threat, there would have been no Godra, and if there was there would be no riots and if there were no riots, then all would be well (?).

    Let us move on since those who are championing the anti Modi campaign stinks of parochial interests and are not sincere to really bring succour to the people. Because they come out as motivated people, even those who wish that truth triumphs, start having doubts.

    Setalvad being exposed or Mander resigning and then taking on a lucrative foreign NGO post has hardly helped in the believing if they are really concerned or they are making a business out of it for themselves!

    Lallu's enquiry was the first of the events that made one start doubting if these enquiries are really truthful or is it to settle political scores or even Ms Gandhi's silly outburst of "Maut ki Saudagar". Populism has ruined the country.

    And surprising is that the CBI under the control of the Central Govt (it is not unbiased, no matter who claims so) failed to nab Modi!!

    Truth is very economical here!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  15. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    VP Singh did India a great favor by incorporating "Social Justice" into our system. Like it or hate it, reservation has helped the backward classes of our society, and we really did not have a better alternative.
    Chandrasekhar is the real man behind our economic miracle, economic liberalization did not materialize in a day, it took a lot of hard work, and seeds were sown during the Prime Minister-ship of Chandrasekhar. He will be remembered as the person who hit the first nail in the coffin of "License Raj" in reality.
     
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I am afraid VP Singh divided society. Are Jats backward?

    We should visit what 'Social Justice' is meant.

    Was there social injustice for OBCs? If so, what?

    Check the percentage of reservations in various States.

    That apart, the OBCs are entitled to 27% reservations in public sector employment and higher education.

    Now, who will bring in 'social justice' for the General class? And why should they be deprived?

    Economic liberalisation was started by Narshimha Rao in 1991

    May check
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1155813.stm

    May also check
    1991
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    First Backward Classes commission
    Main article: Kalelkar Commission

    The First Backward Classes Commission was set up by a presidential order on January 29, 1953 under the chairmanship of Kaka Kalelkar. The commission submitted its report on March 30, 1955. It had prepared a list of 2,399 backward castes or communities for the entire country and of which 837 had been classified as the "most backward". Some of the most notable recommendations of the commission were:

    Undertaking caste-wise enumeration of population in the census of 1961;
    Relating social backwardness of a class to its low position in the traditional caste hierarchy of Indian society;
    Treating all women as a class as "backward";
    Reservation of 70 per cent seats in all technical and professional institutions for qualified students of backward classes.
    Reservation of vacancies in all government services and local bodies for other backward classes.

    The commission in its final report recommended "caste as the criteria" to determine backwardness. But this report was not accepted by the government as it feared that the backward classes excluded from the caste and communities selected by the commission may not be considered and the really needy would be swamped by the multitude and would hardly receive special attention.

    Mandal commission
    Main article: Mandal Commission
    **NFHS Survey estimated only Hindu OBC population. Total OBC population derived by assuming Muslim OBC population in same proportion as Hindu OBC population)

    The decision to set up a second backward classes commission was made official by the president on January 1, 1979. The commission popularly known as the Mandal Commission, its chairman being B. P. Mandal, submitted a report in December 1980 that stated that the population of OBCs, which includes both Hindus and non-Hindus, was around 52 per cent of the total population according to the Mandal Commission.

    However, this finding was criticized as based on "fictitious data". The National Sample Survey puts the figure at 32%.[2] There is substantial debate over the exact number of OBCs in India, with census data compromised by partisan politics. It is generally estimated to be sizable, but lower than the figures quoted by either the Mandal Commission or and National Sample Survey.[3]

    27 percent of reservation was recommended owing to the legal constraint that the total quantum of reservation should not exceed 50 percent. States which have already introduced reservation for OBC exceeding 27 per cent will not be affected by this recommendation. With this general recommendation the commission proposed the following overall scheme of reservation for OBC:

    Candidates belonging to OBC recruited on the basis of merit in an open competition should not be adjusted against their reservation quota of 27 per cent.
    The above reservation should also be made applicable to promotion quota at all levels.
    Reserved quota remaining unfilled should be carried forward for a period of three years and de-reserved thereafter.
    Relaxation in the upper age limit for direct recruitment should be extended to the candidates of OBC in the same manner as done in the case of SCs and STs.
    A roster system for each category of posts should be adopted by the concerned authorities in the same manner as presently done in respect of SC and ST candidates.

    These recommendations in total are applicable to all recruitment to public sector undertakings, both under the central and state governments as well as to nationalised banks. All private sector undertakings which have received financial assistance from the government in one form or other should also be obliged to recruit personnel on the aforesaid basis. All universities and affiliated colleges should also be covered by the above scheme of reservation. Although education is considered an important factor to bring a desired social change, "educational reform" was not within the terms of reference of this commission. To promote literacy the following measures were suggested:

    An intensive time-bound programme for adult education should be launched in selected pockets with high concentration of OBC population.
    Residential schools should be set up in these areas for backward class students to provide a climate specially conducive to serious studies. All facilities in these schools including board and lodging should be provided free of cost to attract students from poor and backward class homes.
    Separate hostels for OBC students with above facilities will have to be provided.
    Vocational training was considered imperative.
    It was recommended that seats should be reserved for OBC students in all scientific, technical and professional institutions run by the central as well as state governments. The quantum of reservation should be the same as in the government services, i.e. 27 per cent.

    Supreme Court interim stay

    On 29 March 2007, the Supreme Court of India, as an interim measure, stayed the law providing for 27 percent reservation for Other Backward Classes in educational institutions like IITs and IIMs. This was done in response to a public interest litigation — Ashoka Kumar Thakur vs. Union of India. The Court held that the 1931 census could not be a determinative factor for identifying the OBCs for the purpose of providing reservation. The court also observed, "Reservation cannot be permanent and appear to perpetuate backwardness".[4]
    [edit] Supreme Court verdict

    On 10 April 2008 the Supreme Court of India upheld the government's initiative of 27% OBC quotas in government-funded institutions. The Court has categorically reiterated its prior stand that those considered part of the "Creamy layer" should be excluded from the scope of the reservation policy as well as from private institutions. The verdict produced mixed reactions from supporting and opposing quarters. Several criteria to identify the portion of the population comprising the "creamy layer" have been recommended, including the following:[5]

    Those with family income above Rs 250,000 a year (now Rs 450,000 a year,As of October 2008) should be in creamy layer, and excluded from the reservation quota. Also, children of doctors, engineers, chartered accountants, actors, consultants, media professionals, writers, bureaucrats, defence officers of colonel and equivalent rank or higher, high court and Supreme Court judges, all central and state government Class A and B officials should be excluded. The Court has requested Parliament to exclude MPs’ and MLAs’ children as well.

    Other Backward Class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Below Rs 450,000 a year, or Rs 37,500 per month is valid for the OBC to claim OBC reservations!!

    I get way less than that a month.

    Yet, I am denied reservation!

    You call that Social Justice?

    Some social justice indeed!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
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  19. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Just to add my 2 cents on the affirmative action, a member of SC/ST has filed a PIL in SC asking for 5 castes to be removed from the SC/ST list as they have cornered almost 90% of the reservation jobs/education seats.

    SC to hear PIL for excluding affluent among SC & ST from purview of quota

     
  20. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    This form of social "justice" was needed to correct the century old form of social "injustice" the SC/STs and even the OBCs faced.

    I agree FCs are a bit unlucky , but then nothing could be done unless the "injustice" meted out to the others is rectified somewhat before bringing down the reservation based on caste.

    That being said , I am against bringing in new caste into the reservation pool.
     
  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    OBCs faced?

    I reckon all but the Brahmins should be OBCs then!
     
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