Rafale no match for China's MMRCA

[p2prada]

I imagine this looks like an AESA to you?

Nope. This is a PESA for sure.

The Chinese one you posted is AESA, albeit not a complete one. Perhaps a prototype.

 

[p2prada]

Maybe this sheds some light...

Looks like an AESA with interrogator antennas... but not. It is the first fighter PESA in the world.

Dunno why but I cannot see the pic.

 

[p2prada]

Ah! I can see the pic now. That one is a PESA.

 

[Armand2REP]

There isn't an AESA radar in the world with interrogator antennas.

 

[J20!]

Here is where China stands on engines... WS-10 rated unreliable due to oil leaks, blade cracking and under performing thrust. If you can't even fix a clone of a late 70s engine, what makes you think you are anywhere near 5th gen territory?

Why exactly would you use an " unreliable due to oil leaks, blade cracking and under performing thrust" engine on a priceless prototype suxh as the J2002? Or even start serial production of said unreliable engine? Why equip brand new production j11B's J11BS's and J15's with said l"leaky" engine? You story is just full of holes bro. I mean we'd expect to have seen the J2002 fall out of the sky, along with all J15's, J11B and J11BS's and the J10B's equiped with said engine if that was true. One more thing, the WS10A and G both produce 1000lbf more thrust than the AL31, your low thrust claim is baseless.

Clearly a PESA radar...


The so called AESAs you keep talking about have huge interrogator antennas sticking out of them, not AESA.

Yes, that's a PESA (sweetman argues its an Aesa too P2Prada). But then that equips the J10B, why would it be fitted onto the J20, with the MUCH MUCH larger randome?:

translation: This radar is our country's first PESA fire control radar, and is developed by 14th institute. It achieves scanning without mechanical movements through the use of electronic beam steering. The radar can detect and track multiple targets, and is capable of tracking 10 targets and engaging 4 targets simultaneously. The use of broad spectrum enables the radar to have excellent resistance against ECM.

Translation: This radar is our country's first prototype of AESA fire control radar. It is developed by [unknown translation] is capable of agile beam steering, varying in power output, and low power loss. It has long detection range, strong ability in tracking multiple targets, excellent resistance to ECM, and low probabilty of interception. The successful development of this radar signifies our country's level in research of airborne radar is on par with other advanced countries.

The J20 does NOT USE a Russian PESA. It will use a CHINESE AESA. Get your facts right.

And I dont think the HUD on the J20 looks anything like the toy on that stimulator:

Because it is the only figure of a presently produced Chinese fighter on record. It points to the fact China does not widely use composites in its construction. Even Comac is using German composite manufacturers to make the C919 lighter which clearly points to a lack of technology in this department. Guaranteed the J-15 uses the same materials as the J-11 aka Su-27SK reproduction... which is hardly any like the JF-17.

So you're judging a frontline 5th gen fighter's composite materials composition by that of an initial production export fighter? Its called "next generation" for a reason. By that reasoning, the materials on a rafale are the same as one's found on a mirage 2000. Given that it is a known FACT that both the J15 and the J10B use a high degree of composite materials, why would the J20 lack them? Please bother to look things up before you say things like: "Guaranteed the J-15 uses the same materials as the J-11 aka Su-27SK reproduction "

 

[J20!]

Nice mock-ups... show us a working bomb.

So what? You're saying Carlo Kopp and the airpoweraustralia team are frauds? Did you even go through the article and view the miriads of photograohic proof? Face it, China has a WIDE array of precision guided munitions, including glide bombs and stand off weapons.Maybe you should look at it again: http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-PLA-GBU.html

PS: My personal favorite:
http://www.ausairpower.net/FT-4-GBU-Sat-Inertial-250-kg-Zhenguan-Studio-2S.jpg

 

[p2prada]

Are you sure it is a PESA, because I am quite sure it is AESA?

The IFF dipoles are fine and definitely seems like a prototype to me. The Russia radar have the same dipoles embedded within the radar and perhaps the PAKFA AESA may also be similar to, say, the Bars or Irbis PESA versions. It is obviously and painfully clear that the Russian, European and American radars have embedded the dipoles inside while the Chinese ones are sticking out.

 

[Armand2REP]

Why exactly would you use an " unreliable due to oil leaks, blade cracking and under performing thrust" engine on a priceless prototype suxh as the J2002? Or even start serial production of said unreliable engine? Why equip brand new production j11B's J11BS's and J15's with said l"leaky" engine? You story is just full of holes bro. I mean we'd expect to have seen the J2002 fall out of the sky, along with all J15's, J11B and J11BS's and the J10B's equiped with said engine if that was true. One more thing, the WS10A and G both produce 1000lbf more thrust than the AL31, your low thrust claim is baseless.

There are no production planes with WS-10. It is still in testing the same as those prototypes. That is the reason one of the J-20s uses AL-31Fs, in case they lose the unreliable WS-10 model.

Yes, that's a PESA. But then that equips the J10B, why would it be fitted onto the J20, with the MUCH MUCH larger randome?

It has been touted as China's new AESA of which China don't have.

The J20 does NOT USE a Russian PESA. It will use a CHINESE AESA. Get your facts right.

Joke 20 will use the Zhuk-MS which is the same radar mounted in the mock-up...

So you're judging a frontline 5th gen fighter's composite materials composition by that of an initial production export fighter? Its called "next generation" for a reason. By that reasoning, the materials on a rafale are the same as one's found on a mirage 2000. Given that it is a known FACT that both the J15 and the J10B use a high degree of composite materials, why would the J20 lack them? Please bother to look things up before you say things like: "Guaranteed the J-15 uses the same materials as the J-11 aka Su-27SK reproduction "

The J-11B materials are the EXACT same used in the Su-27SK. Shenyang just converted the production line to clone the Flanker once they kicked Russia out. J-15 will be identical since it is the same fighter with minor alterations. China's knowledge of composites are rudimentary as seen in JF-17 and reliance on Germany for Comac composites. The evidence translates to all of China's aviation industry or they would be using more advanced methods throughout.

 

[J20!]

Are you sure it is a PESA, because I am quite sure it is AESA?

The IFF dipoles are fine and definitely seems like a prototype to me. The Russia radar have the same dipoles embedded within the radar and perhaps the PAKFA AESA may also be similar to, say, the Bars or Irbis PESA versions. It is obviously and painfully clear that the Russian, European and American radars have embedded the dipoles inside while the Chinese ones are sticking out.

Quite true. As I said before, Bill Sweetman of aviation week is adamant it's an Aesa. If that's not the PESA refferred to in the article then I dont know what is. Chinese defence devlopments are really annoying in their secrecy.

 

[ice berg]

So what? You're saying Carlo Kopp and the airpoweraustralia team are frauds? Did you even go through the article and view the miriads of photograohic proof? Face it, China has a WIDE array of precision guided munitions, including glide bombs and stand off weapons.Maybe you should look at it again: PLA Guided Bombs

PS: My personal favorite:
http://www.ausairpower.net/FT-4-GBU-Sat-Inertial-250-kg-Zhenguan-Studio-2S.jpg

Why are you still arguing with a known troll? This is the same guy who claimed Ex-Varyag didnt have engines and J-20 was a mock up.

I mean common.....

 

[J20!]

There are no production planes with WS-10. It is still in testing the same as those prototypes. That is the reason one of the J-20s uses AL-31Fs, in case they lose the unreliable WS-10 model

Oh please! Not that discussion again:

Brand new J11B's roll off the production line with the WS10A and rows of them can be seen with the "unreliable engine". Dont be pathetic in your denial. The first J20 prototype was the one fitted with the AL31, so that hardly fits with your theory of a back-up plan.

It has been touted as China's new AESA of which China don't have.



Joke 20 will use the Zhuk-MS which is the same radar mounted in the mock-up...

I'm bored with you now. Why would Millions of Yuan be expended developing AESA's and PESA's only to equip a brand new fighter with a bullshit russian PESA. And why my bitter friend would the stimulator to a brand new fighter be displayed in the middle of a fair? That's not a J20 stimulator.

http://wareye.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/apg79raderPhasedarrayradar_thumb.jpg

:

rofl: The J-11B materials are the EXACT same used in the Su-27SK. Shenyang just converted the production line to clone the Flanker once they kicked Russia out. J-15 will be identical since it is the same fighter with minor alterations. China's knowledge of composites are rudimentary as seen in JF-17 and reliance on Germany for Comac composites. The evidence translates to all of China's aviation industry or they would be using more advanced methods throughout.

*sigh* The JF17 focuses on LOW COST. Why would you use expensive composites on a low cost, $20 million export fighter?
The J15 is not the Su27SK genius. thats the J11A. The J15 and J11b use a high degree of composite materials, along with the higher thrust WS10A to drastically improve their thrust to weight ratios. If you have proof of your allegations that all new Chinese fighters dont use composite materials, please post them.

Have fun trolling Armand, i'm out... Maybe I'll indulge you later.

 

[Armand2REP]

Look at that, a dozen engineless J-11Bs sitting idle at SAC.

Chengdu building a prototype with AL-31Fs makes perfect sense to the unreliability of the WS-10.

I'm bored now, why does China spend billions on R&D for fighters that never get exported? Every so called 4th gen fighter you make has gone NOWHERE.

Comac has to pay Germany for composites, there are practically none in Chinese fighters and all because China doesn't have advanced aviation materials industry. Well known fact.

Have fun getting booted out the door. See you next time, love to do it again.

 

[p2prada]

Quite true. As I said before, Bill Sweetman of aviation week is adamant it's an Aesa. If that's not the PESA refferred to in the article then I dont know what is.

Good, so someone else thinks it is an AESA too. That damn well is an AESA to me.

Chinese defence devlopments are really annoying in their secrecy.

Production models will not be a big secret. Development models will remain so for all countries.

The problem we don't know much about China's tech is because there is very little to show as mature technology as compared to what the other more established countries have done. Similarly even India's projects are hardly seen or mentioned by officials because they are still in development.

 

[pankaj nema]

When even Pakistan has NOT taken delivery of J 10 A why are we even talking of J 20

This just shows how much more work has to be done by the Chinese

First let the J 10 B get ready

J 20 is very far away

China has infinite money but NOT infinite HUMAN resources

With so many projects J 10 ;J 11 ; J F17; J15 and J 20 they are UNABLE to succesfully complete
even one of them

 

[ice berg]

When even Pakistan has NOT taken delivery of J 10 A why are we even talking of J 20

This just shows how much more work has to be done by the Chinese

First let the J 10 B get ready

J 20 is very far away

China has infinite money but NOT infinite HUMAN resources

With so many projects J 10 ;J 11 ; J F17; J15 and J 20 they are UNABLE to succesfully complete
even one of them

Can you explain what you meant by "UNABLE to succefully complete even one of them"?

 

[pankaj nema]

Can you explain what you meant by "UNABLE to succefully complete even one of them"?

Is the J 10 A ready to be SOLD to the outside world

So Why is PAK waiting for J 10 B

IS JF 17 any good at all . Dont you know that how desperate the pakistanis are FOR BVRAAM s to
be fired from JF 17

And how desperately the pakistanis are waiting for upgraded Block 2 of JF 17 with a better radar

 

[ice berg]

Is the J 10 A ready to be SOLD to the outside world

So Why is PAK waiting for J 10 B

IS JF 17 any good at all . Dont you know that how desperate the pakistanis are FOR BVRAAM s to
be fired from JF 17

And how desperately the pakistanis are waiting for upgraded Block 2 of JF 17 with a better radar

So by not complete even one of them, you mean export. Thanks for your definition.

Following your grand logic, F22 isnt ready either, cause the US have so far not exported any of them..

Trolling is fun.

Have a jolly good day!

 

[J20!]

Look at that, a dozen engineless J-11Bs sitting idle at SAC.

Hahahahaaaaaa! Its ridiculous how you always refer to a 6 year old picture of J11A's undergoing maintenance!!! I wasnt going to reply to your post but that was just tooo good to resist.

 

[Armand2REP]

Last year straight off the assembly line... you have to fly before you need maintenance.

 

[pankaj nema]

So by not complete even one of them, you mean export. Thanks for your definition.

Following your grand logic, F22 isnt ready either, cause the US have so far not exported any of them..

Trolling is fun.

Have a jolly good day!

It looks like the Chinese too have caught the disease of DELUSION by being in the company
of Pakistanis

Good for us if you believe that your J 10 A is world class

Your ONLY good planes are The RUSSIAN built SU 27 and SU 30 MKK

Carry on dreaming you fools

Our Su 30 mki and Super sukhoi 30 ; PAK FA ; RAFALE ; Upgraded MIG 29 and Mirage 2000- 9
WILL KILL your PLAAF and your stupid friend PAF , BOTH