Rafale for Indian Navy ??

[ace009]

For all the posts above, here are my answers ...

IN wants to have 3 "operational" carriers - now at best only 60% of your carriers are operational at any time, which means to have 3 operational carriers, you need to have 5. IMHO, IN wants to have 4-5 carriers by 2025 so that at any point they will have 3 carriers at sea. Ideally IN should have 1 carrier for Bay of Bengal, 1 carrier for the Arabian Sea and 1 carrier for the Indian Ocean (a catobar for maximum operational range).

As for western naval fighters not offering any more operational range, that is BS - Any CATOBAR fighter (F-18 SH or M-Rafale) carry more fuel and/ or more weapons. It is simply a math - more take-off momentum = more payload - either as fuel, or as weapons or a combination of the two. Don't check up on the wikipedia - those numbers are BS.

The reason India bought Mig-29K is because there was nothing else available as a STOBAR naval aircraft at that time. Also, the Mig-29K is not the best naval fighter there - it is unproven, cannot be used as a CATOBAR fighter and has limited development potential since IN and Russia are the only two nations invested in it, both with plans to replacing them by a 5th gen fighter.

As nrj has mentioned before, 24 (two squadrons) Mig-29Ks are for Gorshky, another 12 (1 squadron) are for the IAC-1 while the rest 10 are for shore based training and combat patrol duty.

IAC-1 will have another 12-16 (1 squadron) of N-LCA mk1.

IAC-2 if CATOBAR will need a CATOBAR enabled fighters (either M-RAFALE or F/A-18 SH). If IAC-2 is still a STOBAR (Ski-jump), then IAC-3 will need it too. For IAC-2 , scheduled to be inducted between 2018 and 2020, no 5th generation fighter is possible. If someone talks about N-AMCA I will laugh my ass off and if they mention N-PAK-FA I will poop in my pant laughing. F-35C will not be produced for a late entrant like India by then (maybe by 2025 for IAC-3 or IAC-4)

As for Why a western fighter? Western nations have a much longer and better record of carriers and CATOBAR launched naval fighters.
Buying a CATOBAR fighter also enables India to develop the CATOBAR abilities itself. If India orders 40 M-Rafales from Dassault, I am pretty sure the French will help India with CATOBAR technology for IAC-2.

 

[arya]

dont you think we should buy one AC from uk . we need 3 AC in sea every time .

guys AC will be game changer for the nation

 

[ace009]

dont you think we should buy one AC from uk . we need 3 AC in sea every time .

guys AC will be game changer for the nation

I think I was one of the first to say that in DFI forums - I have repeated it a dozen times - yes yes and yes, A Liz class carrier will be great for IN. But only if it is for sale. We cannot steal it ... can we?

 

[Armand2REP]

The purchase cost of QE is €4 billion and that doesn't include the cat and traps. Our government is concerned that we could build it for €3 billion in our own yards and that an OTS purchase would be against industrial policy. India will want to make her own carriers the same as France so such a buy would be cost prohibitive and industrially unsound. She will end up as a joint training carrier for the Marine Nationale and Royal Navy.

 

[ace009]

Given that India is spending $2+ billion for the Gorshky and has no experience building either nuclear powered carriers or CATOBAR systems, 4 Billion Euro ($5.5 Billion) seems to be a cheap deal ...

 

[Adux]

The purchase cost of QE is €4 billion and that doesn't include the cat and traps. Our government is concerned that we could build it for €3 billion in our own yards and that an OTS purchase would be against industrial policy. India will want to make her own carriers the same as France so such a buy would be cost prohibitive and industrially unsound. She will end up as a joint training carrier for the Marine Nationale and Royal Navy.

From what I know that is not happening, QE is for Royal Navy and from the looks of Prince of Wales will also be commissioned. French will have to get a third carrier.

 

[Adux]

]IN wants to have 3 "operational" carriers - now at best only 60% of your carriers are operational at any time, which means to have 3 operational carriers, you need to have 5. IMHO, IN wants to have 4-5 carriers by 2025 so that at any point they will have 3 carriers at sea. Ideally IN should have 1 carrier for Bay of Bengal, 1 carrier for the Arabian Sea and 1 carrier for the Indian Ocean (a catobar for maximum operational range).

All the three confirmed carriers are STOBAR.

As for western naval fighters not offering any more operational range, that is BS - Any CATOBAR fighter (F-18 SH or M-Rafale) carry more fuel and/ or more weapons. It is simply a math - more take-off momentum = more payload - either as fuel, or as weapons or a combination of the two. Don't check up on the wikipedia - those numbers are BS.

In the above, the range has nothing to do with Western or eastern, rather it is launched from the catapult. And in since all 3 Indian carriers now confirmed are STOBAR, it is a moot point.

The reason India bought Mig-29K is because there was nothing else available as a STOBAR naval aircraft at that time. Also, the Mig-29K is not the best naval fighter there - it is unproven, cannot be used as a CATOBAR fighter and has limited development potential since IN and Russia are the only two nations invested in it, both with plans to replacing them by a 5th gen fighter.

NO, India was forced to buy MiG-29K, since russians wouldnt sell the Gorky without the Refit at Sevmash and MiG-29K as the airwing. IN didnt have to complete pick up the tab for a prototype , it could have taken the Su-33, but it was too large for the gorky, so on Russians insistance of the air wing being from them, they had to choose the MiG-29K

As nrj has mentioned before, 24 (two squadrons) Mig-29Ks are for Gorshky, another 12 (1 squadron) are for the IAC-1 while the rest 10 are for shore based training and combat patrol duty.

Nope, IN plans to mix MiG-29K with the NLCA.

IAC-2 if CATOBAR will need a CATOBAR enabled fighters (either M-RAFALE or F/A-18 SH). If IAC-2 is still a STOBAR (Ski-jump), then IAC-3 will need it too. For IAC-2 , scheduled to be inducted between 2018 and 2020, no 5th generation fighter is possible. If someone talks about N-AMCA I will laugh my ass off and if they mention N-PAK-FA I will poop in my pant laughing. F-35C will not be produced for a late entrant like India by then (maybe by 2025 for IAC-3 or IAC-4)

IAC-2 is a larger replica of IAC-1.

As for Why a western fighter? Western nations have a much longer and better record of carriers and CATOBAR launched naval fighters.
Buying a CATOBAR fighter also enables India to develop the CATOBAR abilities itself. If India orders 40 M-Rafales from Dassault, I am pretty sure the French will help India with CATOBAR technology for IAC-2

True, but that wasnt the reason for MiG-29K selection. Admiral Arun Prakash already tested the Rafale M, during the last stages of Gorky negotiations. It is easier to make MiG-29K CATOBAR capable, than to take on a completely different machine offering more or less the same.