Racially Identifying Pakistanis as "Middle Eastern"

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by busesaway, Oct 7, 2016.

  1. busesaway

    busesaway Regular Member

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    I understand that this issue is fraught is controversy, and for me it also involves issues surrounding the North/South divide, aryanism, nationality vs race, etc...

    But I have issues over the way Pakistanis are identified as "South Asian" and therefore representative of all South Asia. I can't identify with Pakistanis racially or culturally, and therefore I don't consider them to be South Asian. I have spoken to Bangladeshi people, and it seems that this view is actually quite common, even among some Muslims.

    I need some help identifying source material that helps group Pakistanis with other Middle Easterners. Examples:
    I'm looking for political, cultural, economic, military, racial links. etc...
     
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  3. OrangeFlorian

    OrangeFlorian #GoldAndBlack Senior Member

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    In terms of racial links only Pathans and Balochs have them with Iran but Punjabis, Sindhis and Kashmiris are only culturaly influenced by Iran and are more closely related to other Indo Aryan ethnicities so to speak.
     
  4. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Umm, you mean Pakistan's script is ME.
    Urdu is a Indo-Iranian language, it is essentially same as Hindi (only minor lexical differences; both are descendent from Hindustani)
    You are not indian, are you?
     
  5. Zulfiqar Khan

    Zulfiqar Khan Regular Member

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    The last two things we would want to be is either Middle Eastern or Indian. We are our own people... just leave it at that.
     
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  6. Zulfiqar Khan

    Zulfiqar Khan Regular Member

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    Actually Urdu and Hindi have massive difference. What we "commonly speak" is just broken versions of these languages with borrowed words from both. News outlets for example use pure Hindi/Urdu. It's very hard for me to understand Hindi news and it's very hard for my Indian friends to understand Urdu news. There is massive difference in vocabulary and I also heard the Indian government is "purging" Persian words from Hindi. So the difference may increase.
     
  7. OrangeFlorian

    OrangeFlorian #GoldAndBlack Senior Member

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    Thank a lot Original Poster you gave this monkey shill another excuse to distort facts and make up ethnicities in the same way college students in the west are making up millions more genders though I can`t blame you.
     
  8. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    This is known as diglossia, i.e. different colloquial and literary versions.

    It is "hard" for you to understand hindi not because they are different languages, but because urdu language has developed lexical (i.e. vocabulary) differences which usually manifests as diglossia.
    Primary sources of borrowing are Persian, Arabic, Turkic languages, in that order. The very urdu is from turkic word "ordu" meaning military formation/army etc.
    Other than these lexical differences urdu and hindi are not much different and are hence the sub-languages of the Hindustani language group.
    Hindi is not my native language, and I don't live in N. India, so don't know about any purging.
     
  9. desicanuk

    desicanuk Regular Member

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    Nobody is disputing you are Pakistani.Unfortunately ,all Pakistanis except for Baloch and Pathans are Indic.
    God forbid,we don't want you to be Indians.
     
  10. OrangeFlorian

    OrangeFlorian #GoldAndBlack Senior Member

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    God forbid we don`t want them to remain outside of the ovens and the showers
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2016
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  11. OrangeFlorian

    OrangeFlorian #GoldAndBlack Senior Member

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    I think the same applies with Bosnian and other variants of serbo croatian languages
     
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  12. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Yup, though I think BSC are more close than Hindi-urdu.
    Essentially Bosnian and Serbo-Croatian (or Serbian/Croatian) are mutually intelligable languages whose forced differences stem the different religions of the respective people, i.e. Islam, Serbian orthodoxy and Catholicism.
     
  13. Yggdrasil

    Yggdrasil New Member

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    Hi all - my first post on this forum.

    The original post is indicative of the general illiteracy that infests Pakistani study of history - half-informed, ill-thought out rubbish, speculation mixed with fact, and self-loathing that leads to revisionism.

    Pakistanis and Indians are exactly the same people - this is obvious from genetic studies. The Haplogroup R1a (Y-DNA) is distributed equally amongst both populations, and from genetic studies Punjabis, Sindhis, Kashmiris, Mohajirs are decidedly an Indic people.

    The Baloch are very mixed, and the Pashtuns are an Iranic people - even though Pasthuns of Pakistan are so intermixed with the Punjabis that they are a hybrid Indic-Iranic race.

    Syntactically, Urdu is 100% an Indian language - it in fact was the language of the Nawabs of UP and Bihar and has nothing to do with Pakistan. It was imposed on Pakistan during partition. The script is the modified Arabic script with extra diacritical marks for Indian phonemes. The script means nothing - scripts change according to historical circumstances. A large part of Urdu is Sanskrit.

    Urdu borrows from Persian because the grand narrative of Pakistan is hatred for their Hindu ancestors, which means they had to pretend they were never Hindu in the first place, and instead descendants of Iranians/Central Asians. This is a laughable myth busted by the most superficial and cursory study of history, genetics, linguistics, migratory patterns, etc.

    Don't they have historians in Pakistan? Who do stuff like read books, and study facts, and go to Universities, and investigate things? How can an entire country be so Jahil as to believe such absurdities, that they are not related to Indians? I understand that they stole nuclear technology, but how do you even get the brains to run your plants? Does the CIA run it for you?
     
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  14. OrangeFlorian

    OrangeFlorian #GoldAndBlack Senior Member

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    They are just retards who want any excuse to be labelled ``a separate ethnicity`` just like how trannies over here are forcing everyone to except them as women.
     
  15. OrangeFlorian

    OrangeFlorian #GoldAndBlack Senior Member

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    such people who promote this revisionist bullsh*t need to be grilled alive and well done
     
  16. busesaway

    busesaway Regular Member

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    "Indian" music is something that's shared by everyone between Turkey and Maldives. A lot of Middle Easterners also watch Bollywood. They share similar loves of dancing and music styles.

    Indians and Middle Easterners also eat similar types of food. If you every go to a Middle Eastern grocery shop, you'll pleasantly find that you can pretty much buy most of your Indian food ingredients.

    The three major points that are brought up in these arguments are:
    • Pakistanis speak Urdu, which is considered by many to be a subset of a broader "Hindustani" language
    • Pakistan used to be part of the British India.
    • There are several Pakistani ethnic groups that they consider to be "Indian" (Punjabi and Kashmiri)
    There are also a few other elements that have been brought up: clothing styles, food, genetics, and happaran civilization.

    If you actually read up on Pakistani genetics and anthropology, you'll find that Pakistanis share a lot of genetics with Middle Easterners, but that the genetics shared by all South Asians aren't shared by Pakistanis. i.e. what binds South Asia together, doesn't bind Pakistanis to Indians.

    I think part of the problem is that the majority of "North Indians" in the west come from Punjab and Gujarat, which happen to border Pakistan. While I actually think it's wrong to consider the outermost fringes of India as representative of South Asia, I'm actually thinking that there's a bias towards these states when stereotyping "Indianess", and therefore many people assume that Pakistanis are very representative of India.
     
  17. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Earlier you said that Pakistan's language is Middle Eastern, now suddenly you changed that to Hindustani.
    Sure pakistan has influences from Persian and Arabic systems, but fact is their stock is essentially the same as North Indian stock with differences arising from the invasive ventures from the West and North/NorthWest , the brunt of which was borne by the greater Indus valley region.
    Additionally you claim that " many people assume that Pakistanis are very representative of India" which isn't true.
    From your post it is clear that you don't know what you are talking.

    My guess: you like 50-cents with a touch of Mao.
     
  18. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    You guys are a different species.
     
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  19. Yggdrasil

    Yggdrasil New Member

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    Does that mean the Turks are Indian? Indonesians love Bollywood also, does that make them Indian? What are you talking about? Total confusion.

    Yeah, everyone observes that - so what? Because we use similar ingredients, we are genetically related? LOL.

    You're ILLITERATE. You know nothing about genetics and anthropology, and even less about history. Pakistani and Indian genes are the same. Pakistani Punjabis and Indian Punjabis are the same people. Sindhis and Gujrathis and Marwaris are just about the same people. They were before 1947. What're you talking about?

    [/QUOTE]

    Well yeah. Every region in the world is similar to the neighbouring region. There's a continuum, and obviously a Punjabi Pakistani is far more similar to the Indian Punjabi than the Indian Punjabi is to the Indian Bengali. You're confusing religion, race, language, tribe, culture, etc.

    Logic is dying a slow death - I don't know how you guys on this forum tolerate the utter illiteracy and stupidity of the Pakistanis who come here.
     
  20. busesaway

    busesaway Regular Member

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    I was stating what Pakistani people write to defend their status as "Indian" and "South Asian".

    I personally consider Urdu to be a Middle Eastern language, as that would tie in with how Chinese language is grouped together. I personally have no knowledge of the similarities between Urdu and Hindi though.

    I think artists like One Direction, or the new Mayor of London, pretty much confirm that a lot of people allow Pakistanis to represent Indians.

    If you look at genetics, and generally think about how human anthropology works, it's bizarre not to think that Pakistanis are at the very least a mixture of Indian and Middle Eastern.
     
  21. busesaway

    busesaway Regular Member

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    Throwing insults at me isn't going to get you far.

    The similarities between Middle Easterners and Indians help to dispel the notion that Pakistanis are Indian.

    You are probably more illiterate than me. I can't tell the difference between Middle Easterners and Pakistanis. And genetically they have differences from the rest of South Asia, and they also carry Middle Eastern genetics that Indians don't.

    Also, you seem to be using the idea that a few Pakistanis share ethno-lingustic ties to India, to assume that Pakistanis as a whole should share ethno-lingustic ties to India; you should read up on the similarities between Greece and Turkey. (aka Why isn't Turkey European?)
     

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