Project- 75(I). Next gen subs. RFP issued

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by plugwater, Jul 11, 2010.

  1. plugwater

    plugwater Elite Member Elite Member

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    NEW DELHI: If you thought the Rs 42,000 crore project to procure 126 multi-role fighters for the IAF was the "mother of all defence deals", think again. The stage is now being set for an even bigger project—this one worth over Rs 50,000 crore for six new-generation submarines for the Indian Navy.

    The Defence Acquisitions Council (DAC), chaired by defence minister A K Antony, has finally decided that three of the six submarines will be constructed at Mazagon Docks (MDL) in Mumbai and one at Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) in Visakhapatnam, with the help of a foreign collaborator.

    "The other two submarines will either be imported from the foreign vendor directly or constructed at a private shipyard in India. Fresh estimates show each of these six diesel-electric submarines will cost almost Rs 8,500 crore," a source said.

    Under the programme—called Project-75 India (P-75I)—apart from stealth, land-attack capability and the ability to incorporate futuristic technologies, all the six new submarines will be equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems to boost their operational capabilities.

    Conventional diesel-electric submarines have to surface every few days to get oxygen to recharge their batteries. With AIP systems, they can stay submerged for much longer periods, narrowing the gap with nuclear-powered submarines which can operate underwater for virtually unlimited periods.

    The selection of the foreign collaborator for P-75I will, of course, take time because a RFP (request for proposal) will first have to be issued to submarine manufacturers like Rosoboronexport (Russian), DCNS/Armaris (French), HDW (German) and Navantia (Spain). Shortlisting and detailed technical and commercial negotiations will follow, before the actual contract can be inked.

    Navy has reasons to be worried. By 2015 or so, it will be left with just half of its present fleet of 15 ageing diesel-electric submarines—10 Russian Kilo-class, four German HDW and one Foxtrot. Moreover, it has been hit hard by the almost three-year delay in the ongoing Project-75 for six French Scorpene submarines at MDL, under which the vessels were to roll out one per year from 2012 onwards, with price escalation pushing the total cost beyond Rs 20,000 crore, as was first reported by TOI.

    For P-75I, the second line of submarines, the navy was keen on a private domestic shipyard to tie-up with the foreign vendor since it felt MDL was already "overloaded" with orders and quick delivery schedules were "critical".

    But the DAC has decided otherwise, holding that the infrastructure and capabilities acquired by MDL in the Scorpene project could not be allowed to go waste. "Let’s hope thing go smoothly now, and instead of 10 years, the navy gets its first submarine under P-75I in six to seven years," an official said.

    Submarines can be game-changers in any conflict. And if they are armed with nuclear-tipped missiles, they provide the most effective strategic deterrent available around the world at this point of time. The US and Russia, after strategic arms reduction pacts, in fact, plan to retain over 60% of their nuclear weapons in the shape of SLBMs (submarine-launched ballistic missiles) fitted on nuclear-powered submarines called "boomers", or SSBNs.

    Though India does not have nuclear submarines and SLBM capabilities at present to complete its "nuclear triad", it hopes to move forward by inducting the Akula-II class attack submarine K-152 Nerpa on a 10-year lease from Russia in October this year, and then the first indigenous nuclear submarine INS Arihant by early-2012.

    Pakistan, incidentally, already has its first Mesma AIP-equipped submarine, PNS Hamza, the third of the French Agosta-90B submarines it has inducted since 1999. It is now looking to induct three advanced Type-214 German submarines with AIP. China, in turn, has 62 submarines, with 10 of them being nuclear-propelled.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...bs-for-Rs-50000-crore/articleshow/6152862.cms
     
    Endeavour, youngindian, nandu and 3 others like this.
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  3. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    Wow its too huge.........
    any way 4-8% will go to the babus and other officials.........
     
  4. plugwater

    plugwater Elite Member Elite Member

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    Why the cost is so high? One ohio class submarine costs 2 billion dollars and we are getting a diesel sub for 8500 crores(around 1.8 billion USD)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
  5. 171K

    171K Tihar Jail Banned

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    this is freaking crazy.........makes no sense!!!!

    And the title should be changed.
     
  6. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    I already said it, its Submarine + Contractor's % + Indian babus & Officials% = This huge cost.
    we never change.
     
  7. ramu

    ramu New Member

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    Guys , the RFI is just out. It has a long way to go. The price will increase with time too and when the orders are finally placed, the subs will be built in India with ToT. So it is looking good. Hold your horses till we have more details.
     
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  8. Sabir

    Sabir DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    But the news is not new........just the price is mentioned first time I think.
     
  9. Agantrope

    Agantrope Senior Member Senior Member

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    This is freaking cost, that too we are building i India and this much cost??
     
  10. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    there are 4 things i suspect for the incredibly high price per sub:

    1 life cycle costs included along with creation of infrastructure, training, and this could very well include MLU, though i wonder if that has been included, how did they work it out.

    2 the actual number of subs is being concealed, possibly more than 6.

    3 they are looking for some incredibility high tech stuff to be incorporated the details of which are so far missing for obvious reasons.

    4 i hardly suspect this one since it does not quite add up. corruption touching new highs but do i expect it to be done with such pomp and show, i guess corruption wise things have not become so transparent. there will be some lane dane, chai biskoot but certainly not of the scale as is being suspected here.

    PS : point to be noted is the timing of all this. this was expected much before but all this happening now shows europeans are at the receiving end as far as mmrca goes and they are being shown the carrot else where, which in effect means other than the doors of gripen, the options of rafale and EF wont be there for the PAF for their "3+1".
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
  11. Quickgun Murugan

    Quickgun Murugan Regular Member

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    Wish IN goes for german subs. That way PN will be out-trumped. IN already is the 1st Navy to operate french, german, russian and indigenous submarines. German diesel subs are the quietest in the world.

    Rs 8500 crores for a sub. Thats like the cost of an aircraft carrier like Gorshkov.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
  12. nandu

    nandu Senior Member Senior Member

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    IN should go for amur class as the sonar signature level of the submarines of this class is several times less in comparison with “Kilo” class submarines which are considered at present the most silent in the world and they have special feature like capability of striking salvo missile blows at different targets.
     
  13. Maverick007

    Maverick007 Regular Member

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    My 2 cents on this is to go for Amur 1650 class subs with the 10 vertical launch tubes for the slcms (Brahmos/Klub) with a Stirling or Siemens AIP modules and some other high tech equipment..........Basing on the fact that the subs cost approximately US$ 200-250 a pop and then another 200 million a sub for equipment et al.........all in all, you should have a decently lethal sub for under 500 mill......use the balance monies to increase the number of SSBN in the Navy and also buy some of the smaller AMUR 550 for coastal ops...........greater importance should be given to the nuclear subs for their pureplay 3rd strike capability
     
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  14. Neil

    Neil Senior Member Senior Member

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    the article i read in times of INDIA is quite a shame for such a prestige newspaper...they have compared the allocation of budget to different ministries is far less allocated to this single project alone...what they tend to forget is that the allocation to this project is for more than 6-7 years[hence 50k crore will not be paid at once]...while the budget of different ministries is of one year.....

    hope they purchase dolphins modify them like the israel did and turn them into nuclear armed subs...will enhance our nuclear triad to a great extent....
     
  15. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    why isn't the Swedish A26 mentioned anywhere??
     
  16. plugwater

    plugwater Elite Member Elite Member

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    I think its not the full list.
     
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  17. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    People are focused on the price but two points about the price are not mentioned
    1. The price includes TOT from which we will be making more subs than the number intially reported,it will also include things like fitting missiles etc.. which will help us in our sub program etc...

    2. The price may be high also from clauses that may offset sales of the subs to other countries.
     
  18. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    http://en.rian.ru/world/20100711/159760904.html
    India allocates $11 bln to build six new submarines - paper

    India allocates $11 bln to build six new submarines
    11:52 11/07/2010© RIA Novosti. Igor Chuprin

    India's Defense Acquisitions Council has approved the allocation of over 500 billion rupees ($11 billion) for the construction of six new-generation diesel-electric submarines for the Indian Navy in a record military deal, The Times of India reported on Sunday.
    This amount exceeds the $9 billion allocated by the Indian government for the purchase of 126 multi-role fighters from abroad for the Indian Air Force, the paper said.
    Three of the six submarines will be constructed at Mazagon Docks in Mumbai and one at Hindustan Shipyard Ltd in Visakhapatnam, with the help of a foreign contractor. The other two submarines will either be imported from abroad or constructed at a private shipyard in India, the paper said.
    Under the program called Project-75 India (P-75I), apart from stealth, land-attack capability and the ability to incorporate futuristic technologies, all the six new submarines will be equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems to boost their operational capabilities, the paper said.
    Conventional diesel-electric submarines have to surface every few days to get oxygen to recharge their batteries. With AIP systems, they can stay submerged for much longer periods, the paper said.
    Invitations to a tender for a foreign contractor are expected to be sent to Russia's Rosoboronexport, France's DCNS/Armaris, Germany's HDW and Spain's Navantia, the paper said.
    "Navy has reasons to be worried. By 2015 or so, it will be left with just half of its present fleet of 15 ageing diesel-electric submarines - 10 Russian Kilo-class, four German HDW and one Foxtrot," the paper said.
    NEW DELHI, July 11 (RIA Novosti)

    This is a bigger deal than the MRCA
     
  19. JAISWAL

    JAISWAL Senior Member Senior Member

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    AMUR sub with BHRAMOSH
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2010
  20. JAISWAL

    JAISWAL Senior Member Senior Member

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    AMUR Sub with BHRAMOS
    [​IMG]
     
  21. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    You know we could probably get the French to build us six barracudas for that kind of moolah!
     

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