Project 15 & 17: GoI Funds Plan to Build New Stealth Destroyers

ZOOM

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Well, delivery of required frigates, destroyers and corvetts has always faced hurdle in the form of Cost escalation and repeated design changes to suit existing needs, especially when Ships are being manufactured in Indian Shipyards.

More then anything else, I would like concerned authorities to focus on upgrading current facilities which are being utilized to manufacture modern fighting ships, because, if one were to visit Mazgaon dock which is used for building Stealth Frigates and destroyers, then certainly he will surprized by dreadful condition of shipyard. As it is not even comparable to shipyards of 1950s belonging to European shipyards when it comes necessary facilities for faster delivery of ships.
 

EnlightenedMonk

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Yes, one needs to concentrate on effective project management and change management principles rather than anything else... Also, the requirements must be made very clear and frozen and the Defence Ministry must not be allowed to dilly-dally on the requirements which obviously causes discomfort to everybody involved...
 

ZOOM

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Gigantic nature of this deal of nearly $9 Billion will certainly going to attract some kickbacks as it was in forigen deals because of which 7 foriegn defence firms have been blacklisted. Because, this ordered Stealth Frigates are too important to be delivered on time, because Indian Navy is also suffering from agening fleet.

They simply cannot afford to drop such a important project in the midway because of corruption and kickbacks as it will severly hamper IN's effort to get graduated to true Blue water Navy, as stakes are high for IN this time as it has facing issues of LTTE, Migration of tamils from Sri-lanka, Terrorist use of Indian waters, Pirates hijacking in addition to War like situation.
 

Yusuf

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There were issues regarding modular construction technique in the two shipbuilding yards. Both with expertise and also capacity. Dont know if i have missed any news about such technology being acquired or developed here.
Thats the reason why the navy wanted two ships to be built in Russia where Indian techs would have learnt how to build using this technique and build the rest in India. It would have also meant a speedier delivery since its a new thing for India and it can delay the project on account of any problems that might arise during the course of construction.
 

Pintu

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That's a great report and great finding youngindian, and kudos to you for finding that , I think Modular ship building construction technology is new to us, I agree with yusuf, for that reason Navy wants it two ship built in Russia to have access the tech.

Regards
 

thakur_ritesh

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There were issues regarding modular construction technique in the two shipbuilding yards. Both with expertise and also capacity. Dont know if i have missed any news about such technology being acquired or developed here.
Thats the reason why the navy wanted two ships to be built in Russia where Indian techs would have learnt how to build using this technique and build the rest in India. It would have also meant a speedier delivery since its a new thing for India and it can delay the project on account of any problems that might arise during the course of construction.
i think the only news coming on this issue since has been the one posted by youngindian on the thread. there was a tussle between home grown lobby and off sourcing lobby and there has been no reports on the investments if any that have been made by these shipyards to enhance their capabilities. as has been the case in the past, there will be no respect for timelines and sadly the past experiance says the timelines followed can be such that a ship that takes 2 yrs to make in russia takes well over 7yrs in india and still counting and these ships are almost of the same capability.
 

Yusuf

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No i did hear about some expansion plans at both these yards. But didnt know they were ready with everything. Im sure the navy has been arm twisted into accepting these yards as the producer for all seven ships.
So it will be a case of learn as you make for these companies and it could take a lot of time and i might add that there may be issues arising later regarding what it ultimately comes up with. There were talks of getting foreign help in these yards to make those ships. Wonder if that has come along which makes these yards confident of making these ships.
 

Singh

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Can someone update the board on expected specs of the upcoming frigates ?
 

K Factor

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I hate to be so pessimistic, but unless the infrastructure at the docks and shipyards is boosted first, this is bound to run into delays, and further increase in costs.

Also, for 7 frigates, $ 9 Billion seems a bit too much. Can somebody explain this?
 

badguy2000

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let us get back to the topic.

10 billion USD for 7 FFG is too expensive.....one FFG cost nearly 1.4 billion USD.

as I know, chinese 052C Aegis-style airdefence DDG costs only 3.5 billion + RMB( about 0.5 billion USD) while 052c has much more powerful capacity.
052c
[/IMG]

Chinese stealth 054a FFG has the performance similar with P17A while 054B cost only less 1.5 billion RMB( about 0.2 billion USD).
054a
[/IMG]
 

badguy2000

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so 1 India's P17 FFG is almost 7 time more expensive than CHinese' 054a FFG.

india's P17
[/IMG]

CHina's 054a
 

badguy2000

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I hate to be so pessimistic, but unless the infrastructure at the docks and shipyards is boosted first, this is bound to run into delays, and further increase in costs.

Also, for 7 frigates, $ 9 Billion seems a bit too much. Can somebody explain this?
I agree entirely.

for example.
Before starting building its own AC, china had invested 5.4 billion USD on its AC building shipyard already.
 

SATISH

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Well people we first need to know the specs and the weapon systems that are to be used on board the FFG....I think there are a hell more sensors to be used this time...This might be the reason for the exhorbitant rates. It is still cheaper than the American Warships though.
 

badguy2000

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Well people we first need to know the specs and the weapon systems that are to be used on board the FFG....I think there are a hell more sensors to be used this time...This might be the reason for the exhorbitant rates. It is still cheaper than the American Warships though.
it is not truth!

even one USA's Aegis DDG costs only 1.3 billion USD while one India's P17 FFG costs 1.4 billion USD(10 billion for 7 P17).

however, one USA's Aegis DDG is much more powerful than one India's P17.

Frankly speaking, if the 7 P17 really cost 10 billion USD, then I suspect that your corrupted Indian officials must get some bribery from the deal.

It is impossible that the real cost of P17 FFG is even more than that of one Aegis DDG
 

Known_Unknown

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Hmm......wonder why these frigates are so costly. Maybe the newspaper made a reporting error. 45,000 crore is a bit exorbitant, no? And that too for an indigenous 7 ship contract for the navy?
 

SATISH

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Australians have spent $8 billion for 3 Destroyers from Navantia which the company itself says it is comparable to the Kolkata class destroyers India is building...and the Zumwait class ships which are being built are supposed to cost 3.3 billion each peice.
 

SATISH

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And Aigis is a weapon system not a Ship for Christ sake...it is a weapon system mounted on the Aleigh-Burke class destroyers or the DDG 51.
 

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