Possible fallout of rejection of US fighters for MRCA

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by Yusuf, Apr 28, 2011.

  1. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    With the MRCA competition being narrowed down to Rafale and EF and the two US fighters being rejected, what are the potential political and military fallout that we can expect? What kind of arm twisting or even a "punishment" even can we expect from washington though there should be no reason as by the looks of it, the competition has been fair and square and admitted as much by the out going US ambassador.
     
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  3. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    No punishment it was expected that this contract would not go neither to US nor to Russia.
    Besides the US offer was not attractive F-16 was out of the game at the onset,the F-18 except the AESA did not offer nothing extra given this plane was in more or less similar category of Su-30MKI it was out.Also Uncle Sam got lot of lollipops from India C-17,C-130,P-8 and probably the AH-64 in the pipeline.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Let me see, UNSC seat will now not get the kind of support. Not the enthusiastic one at least. Engine for Tejas can be another. Possible dilly dally on other weapons system already on order. Though it would harm the US only and drive away India and end up losing the indian market.
    It would all seem childish even as it's all fair and square but since the US put a lot into it including pride even with Obama too pitching in, it's going to be hurting then real bad right now. We might not see some of the lavish praises that were being heaped on India. Not that we need anyone's back patting, but still we might see a period of cooling off before it starts to pick up again. I sure hope they take it in their stride and move on. The US will find other deals to make money from India.
     
  5. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Good point. US got enough dollops from our defense budget. They should relax already.

    Too bad the US cannot extricate itself from some of the regulations that it has imposed upon itself that we find it difficult to access technology from them. If it comes down to simply a buyer-seller relationship, then how does all this hullabaloo of 'strategic partnership' fit in the scheme of things? Despite India having a trade deficit with the US, US politicians cribbing about outsourcing does not particularly help.

    UNSC was never going to happen in this decade anyway. We've had enough of these virtual carrots.
     
  6. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  7. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Don't expect nothing much from the present administration in the US. As it is President Obama will be shifting into election mode--- more of anti outsourcing speeches.

    IMO Pres. Obama has always lacked a strategic Foreign Policy vision wrt to South Asia. Last 3-4 years have only seen flip flops and a realisation that the Pakistanis have made the Americans run around in circles. No clear cut objective has been met except for a pull out from Iraq ( lesser said than better).
     
  8. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Don't expect nothing much from the present administration in the US. As it is President Obama will be shifting into election mode--- more of anti outsourcing speeches.

    IMO Pres. Obama has always lacked a strategic Foreign Policy vision wrt to South Asia. Last 3-4 years have only seen flip flops and a realisation that the Pakistanis have made the Americans run around in circles. No clear cut objective has been met except for a pull out from Iraq ( lesser said than better).
     
  9. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Why forget the orders already in US bag, 25 billion dollar civilian planes, then 1 billion dollar (approx) for C 130J, with possibility of more to come. C 17 is on the cards (10 + 6), The P 8I, already close to 3.5 billion dollars. A possibility of Apache getting the chopper deal. There is more then enough business possibilities. You can not have everything in pocket.
     
  10. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    * Tejas engine headache is for sure.
    * More beg to Pakistan is for sure.
    * M-MRCA deal hanging in balance for another 3-4 years is for sure.

    Nitesh: M-MRAC was a matter of pride for US and also a gateway to India's foreign policy, not just matter of few billion dollars. Reaction will be significant and i fear unbearable. We will regret in first place for exaggerating this simple Mirage deal into a mega unfordable global multi billion dollar extravaganza.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
  11. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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    With their relation worsening with PAK, i don't think there would be setbacks to India in strategic aspect. UNSC seat backing by US may suffer, but you could have never trusted US on this, nothing serious. Obama wouldn't want to mess it up with his ridiculous speeches, because this ain't the last deal.
     
  12. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Might as well get used to the fact France is coming back into India with full force. Mirage upgrades, exercised options on Scorpenes, Leclerc components in Arjun Mk2, SIGMA-30 on MLRS, thermal imagers for thousands of tanks, hundreds of helicopter engines, hundreds if not thousands of Kaveri engine cores, marine diesels for stealth frigates, fast patrol craft, and most likely $12 billion MMRCA... not to mention $10 billion in recently signed nuke contracts. I seriously think we are going to see Mistrals in IN service too.
     
  13. Parthy

    Parthy Air Warrior Senior Member

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    There were lot of aspects which has caused US fighters to lose the race,

    * US generous aids to Pakistan
    * Arming Pakistan in names of fighting terror despite India's discomfort over it (F16 advance block, UAV).
    * Removing critical techs from C130J due to non signature of CISMOA & BECA, even after signing LSA.
    * Kept India out of Afghan corridor to make Pakistan happy
    * Have not completely in side with India in terms of Chinese policy.
    * Made high price tag for C17 when compared to sale with Australian air force
    * raising par with H1 Visa

    and many more....

    Edit:
    Also not to forget in technical perspective

    1. Out-dated airframe of F16
    2. F18 being used only as a Maritime force has very low Combat radius when compared with other aircraft.

    CISMOA would have definitely has unplugged most critical technologies and would have affected ToT terms for AESA and all other techs...

    If this deal would have went on US side, we could have pushed to a critical position to stand without less fighter force or IAF as a US puppet..
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
  14. ganesh177

    ganesh177 Regular Member

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    Firstly, its not that US was left empty when obama visited india, theyh ave had their pie as people mentioned above.
    And second if mmrca specifically was really the matter of pride for US then they wud had thought twice before arming pakistan to teeth. Everytime india went complaining to US about arms supply to its rival, they gave a casual reply that pakistan was there strategic ally. (means more important than india). Well, then there you had it Mr. Obama, wats the cry now ?

    And for god sake this is not the end of world, even US knows that. Even they know that india still will be spending 50-80 billion on arms in next 5 years. Its time for US to analyse and rectify there wrongs which costed them mmrca. First, US shud get their acts together and stop arming pakistan. Second get easy with there laws which india will always be uncomfortable with while buying there arms. And india wont like to be dictated or interfered once the arms are baught by india.

    I believe US is quiet aware of all this and wont be that stupid to start bitching against india. If they do, then india will face some hardship but US will feel some heat as well. There will be nothing to gain for both if we both go into that mode. So i believe US wont go into that mode to make the situation awkward for india-us relation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
  15. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Rahul, isn't it is unwise to overestimate someone's power
     
  16. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    Possible fallout: USA will realize that carrot and stick policy doesn't work while dealing with India. Russia will realize that they cannot take relation with India for granted, and they cannot automatically assume that all deals will go Kremlin's way. I see better relations with France, all of this started after France decided to support India's nuclear tests in not so distant past.

    Good news for India is that this sets a very important precedence, which is needs of our defense forces are more important than political compulsions. It will be wrong for USA to react in a negative way, this will only strengthen the general assumption that USA cannot be trusted. Besides, their bag is already half-full, current Indian orders will protect at least 50,000 US jobs.
     
  17. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    only usa is responsible for that they want from our side to buy f16 while they are helping pakistan

    why not usa offer us f15 in MMRCA

    why usa was helping pakistan to provide more and more wepaons

    till now why india is not a permanat member in UN usa has to think

    mayn other factor

    we need usa that fact but the other side of coin then also need us
     
  18. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Sweet words and carrots dont cut it anymore uncle yankee.

    Come back with something concrete.
     
  19. ganesh177

    ganesh177 Regular Member

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    Hope this calm some nerves.

    'Disappointed' US to keep up defence ties with India

    Though disappointed at India's rejection of Washington's bid to supply a new generation of fighter jets, the United States has said it would continue to grow and develop its defence partnership with India. The New York Times described the decision as a "blow" for President Barack Obama. "We are deeply disappointed by this news but we look forward to continuing to grow and develop our defence partnership with India," Pentagon spokesperson Col Dave Lapan said on Thursday after New Delhi informed US of its decision.

    The US, he said, "remain convinced that the United States offers our defence partners around the globe the world's most advanced and reliable technology."

    India earlier informed manufacturers of US Lockheed Martin F 16 IN and Boeing F/A 18 In that they have not made it in the technical evaluation trials for a Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA) for the Indian Air Force.

    In a report from New Delhi, The New York Times described India's decision as "a blow for President (Barack) Obama, who had pushed hard for this and other defence deals during his visit to India in November as part of his agenda to deepen and broaden the United States' relationship with India."

    "While political and economic relations between India and the United States have been warming for years, American arms makers have struggled to win big contracts" in New Delhi, it said..

    "After decades of frosty relations during the cold war, which pushed India to rely extensively on the Soviet Union for military hardware, many in the Indian defence establishment are still wary of American intentions and United States military aid to Pakistan, India's main adversary," Times said.

    In Washington, Ashley Tellis, a Carnegie Endowment scholar who authored a 140-page report titled "Dogfight" on the India's MRCA decision, said: "There is an acute sense of disappointment in the US government about this decision."

    "As best I can tell, the downselect was made entirely on the basis of the technical evaluations - the cost of the aircraft or the strategic considerations did not enter into the picture," he said.

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/Disap...-defence-ties-with-India/Article1-690993.aspx

    US hopes India will buy Boeing C17 planes-envoy

    (Reuters) - The United States hopes it can sell Boeing Co's C17 transport aircraft to India for an estimated $4 billion, its ambassador to New Delhi said on Friday, a day after India rejected U.S. bids for a huge fighter jet deal.

    "Once this over four billion dollar sale is finalized, the economic impact will be felt by 30,000 American workers and 650 American suppliers located in 44 states," Timothy Roemer said in a speech to an industry body, according to a statement issued by the embassy.


    India rejected bids from Boeing and Lockheed Martin for an $11 billion fighter plane contract, short-listing two European suppliers on Thursday in a move that could delay closer strategic ties with the United States.

    :becky:
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
  20. ganesh177

    ganesh177 Regular Member

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  21. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    ^^ Nice... US pack up your obsolete crap, India don't want it. He dodged the Pakistan question with skill. :rolleyes:
     

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