Pokhran II not fully successful: Scientist

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hit&run

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Any links or resource.
Can we close this thread after Dr. APJ Kalam's revelation.:blum3:

I am sorry i won't be able to provide source cause it was very verbal not published. The disclosure was supposed to be spontaneous like any other news. Now It has become more interesting to ear GoI's statement after this episode. Please be alarmed on the fact that in policies change with the blink of an eye in Geo-political land scape. Having a analytical mind one can find who is India's friend and a bit research on how India was able to gain Simulation technology can help.
Regards.
 

RPK

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Indian armed forces confident about nuclear arsenal

Indian armed forces confident about nuclear arsenal - India - NEWS - The Times of India

NEW DELHI: Indian armed forces seem quite confident about the country's nuclear arsenal despite the controversy over the "yields'' of the 1998
Pokhran-II nuclear tests, which included a 15 kiloton fission device, a 45 kiloton thermonuclear device (hydrogen bomb) and three sub-kiloton devices.

Outgoing Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta, also the chairman of the chiefs of staff committee, on Thursday said India had "a credible minimum nuclear deterrent'' in line with its no-first use (NFU) policy.

"We are a nation which maintains a credible deterrent...more than enough to deter anybody,'' said Admiral Mehta. And should someone do the unthinkable by launching a first-strike, then the "consequences will be more than what they can bear''.

Asked about former DRDO scientist K Santhanam's statement that the hydrogen bomb tested during Pokhran-II was actually "a fizzle'', Admiral Mehta said, "As far as we are concerned, scientists have given us a certain capability which is enough to provide requisite deterrence...the deterrent is tried and tested.''

That may well be so but there are still some lingering doubts over whether India has a swift and assured second-strike capability, crucial for a country like India whose nuclear doctrine is centred around the NFU policy.

The doctrine, on its part, declares that nuclear retaliation to a first strike will be "massive and designed to inflict unacceptable damage''. This connotes a robust stockpile of nuclear warheads, safe and ready for use if needed. Estimates indicate India's weapons-grade plutonium stockpile is enough for 80-90 warheads at present.

Pakistan, on its part, has deliberately kept its nuclear policy ambiguous in the belief it deters India from undertaking any conventional military action against it.

Moreover, recent reports indicate Pakistan has pressed the throttle to enhance its arsenal much beyond 60 nuclear warheads as well as supplement its ongoing enriched uranium-based nuke programme with a weapons-grade plutonium one.

But more than the actual number of nuclear warheads, the worry of the Indian armed forces has been the gap in their delivery systems. Pakistan, for instance, is well ahead in the missile arena, borrowing as it has heavily from China and North Korea.

China, with its long-range ICBMs (intercontinental ballistic missiles) and SLBMs (submarine-launched ballistic missiles), is in a different league altogether. Its road-mobile DF-31A missile, for instance, can hit targets 11,200 km away, while JL-2 SLBM has a reach beyond 7,200 km.

India, of course, has no ICBM or SLBM. While it's developing the 3,500-km Agni-III and 5,000-km Agni-V ballistic missiles, the only missiles available to armed forces as of now are Prithvi (150 to 350-km range), Agni-I (700-km) and Agni-II (2,500-km). But they, too, have not undergone the rigorous testing nuclear-capable missiles should undergo.

IAF has some fighters like Mirage-2000s jury-rigged to deliver nuclear weapons but the Strategic Forces Command has no dedicated bombers. Similarly, Navy has only two "dual-tasked'' warships armed with Dhanush (variant of Prithvi with a 330-km range) missiles, INS Subhadra and INS Suvarna.

Moreover, the nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant, which was launched on July 26, will take at another two to three years to become fully operational. And it will be equipped only with 700-km range missiles to begin with.
 

Sridhar

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‘Fizzle’ claim for thermonuclear test refuted Siddharth Varadarajan Back up charge with scientific evidence, says government’s top scientist New Delhi: The government on Thursday strongly refuted claims that the 1998 test of a thermonuclear device had been a failure, with Principal Scientific Adviser R. Chidambaram telling The Hindu that those questioning the tests yield had an obligation to back up their charge with scientific evidence.
He was responding to the recent statement by a former defence scientist, K. Santhanam, that “the yield in the thermonuclear device test was much lower than what was claimed.” Mr. Santhanam, who cited only unspecified “seismic measurements and expert opinion from world over,” went on to say that this was the reason India should not sign the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT).
The stated success of the second generation nuclear device tested on May 11, 1998, was questioned at the time by a number of Western seismologists who said the seismic signatures detected by them were at variance with the claimed yield of 45 kilotons. Although the controversy subsided somewhat once scientists from the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre — which designed the weapon — published their scientific evidence, it is likely to be reignited once again since Mr. Santhanam represented the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) team at the Pokhran-II tests and is the first member of that group to echo the arguments of those who say the thermonuclear device failed to work properly.
“If Mr. Santhanam has any scientific data to back up what he has claimed, I am sure BARC scientists would be more than happy to debate it,” said Dr. Chidambaram. “Without that, this kind of statement means nothing.”
In a 2000 article, The May 1998 Pokhran tests: Scientific aspects, republished in 2008 with some updated details, in a French journal, ‘Atoms for Peace,’ Dr. Chidambaram has argued that western seismologists who under-estimated the Pokhran yields did so because they did not take into account the geological structure at the Indian testing range. They also failed to appreciate that India’s weapons designers purposely went for lower yields because the shots had to be fired in existing shafts which could not be dug any deeper for fear of detection. Higher yields, then, would have caused damage to nearby villages and also led to the possible venting of radioactivity.
Dr. Chidambaram wrote that the thermonuclear device tested was “a two-stage device of advanced design, which had a fusion-boosted fission trigger as the first stage and a fusion secondary stage which was compressed by radiation implosion and ignited.” He said the argument that the secondary stage failed to perform is belied by post-shot radioactivity measurements on samples extracted from the test site which showed significant activity of sodium-22 and manganese-54, both by-products of a fusion reaction rather than pure fission. “From a study of this radioactivity and an estimate of the cavity radius, confirmed by drilling operations at positions away from ground zero, the total yield as well as the break-up of the fission and fusion yields could be calculated.” Based on this, he said, BARC scientists worked out a total yield of 50 +/- 10 kt for the thermonuclear device, which was consistent with both the design yield and seismic estimates.
As for the sub-kiloton tests of 0.3 and 0.2 kt of 13 May 1998, which the International Monitoring System for verifying CTBT compliance failed altogether to detect, he said “the threshold limit for seismic detection is much higher in, say a sand medium than in hard rock; the Pokhran geological medium comes somewhere in between” and so it was not surprising these two tests did not show up on the IMS.
“Let someone refute what we have written, then we can look at it,” said Dr. Chidamabaram, adding that he was yet to see a published critique of BARC’s scientific assessment by any laboratory-based scientist abroad.
Faulty instrumentation A former senior official of the erstwhile Vajpayee government confirmed to The Hindu that there had been differences of opinion between BARC and DRDO scientists after the May 1998 tests, with the latter asserting that some of the weapons tests had not been successful. The internal debate was complicated by the fact that the DRDO experts, including Mr. Santhanam, were not privy to the actual weapon designs, which are highly classified. But the issue was resolved after a high-level meeting chaired by Brajesh Mishra, who was National Security Advisor at the time, in which the BARC experts established that DRDO had underestimated the true yields due to faulty seismic instrumentation. And the radioactivity analysis provided the clincher.
Since 1998, whatever his private reservations might have been, Mr. Santhanam appears to have stuck closely to the official line in his public pronouncements.
On the fifth anniversary of Pokhran-II, for example, he said in an article in Outlook that “the asymmetry with respect to China stands largely removed” thanks to the 1998 tests. Since China was a proven thermonuclear power at the time and India was not, it is hard to reconcile this optimistic assertion with the scientist’s current claim that the thermonuclear device India tested was “a fizzle.”
Similarly, in June 2007, Mr. Santhanam declared on CNN-IBN on a programme about the Indo-U.S. nuclear deal in which this correspondent was also a participant: “After May 1998, there was a clear declaration from India that we don’t have to conduct any more nuclear tests. India should not have any problem legalising this position. But this is subject to the condition that if the international security condition changes, then we should be allowed to test."



The Hindu : Front Page : ‘Fizzle’ claim for thermonuclear test refuted
 

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domain-b.com : Pokhran-II: Did Buddha really smile?

Pokhran-II: Did Buddha really smile?
27 August 2009
A distinguished Indian defence scientist now says that the yield of the H-bomb device in the country's 1998 ''Buddha Smiles'' nuclear tests was much below expectations and that the test was a 'fizzle,' raising concerns about the potency of the country's nuclear arsenal. A look at the controversy, and what it portends, by Rajiv Singh.
New Delhi: Reviving a controversy that had erupted in 1998, almost immediately after Pokhran-II ''Buddha Smiles'' nuclear tests, a distinguished Indian defence scientist now says that the tests may actually not have been the success they were said to be in one particular respect. According to K Santhanam, the yield of the thermonuclear device was actually much below expectations and the test was a 'fizzle.'
Key scientists and engineers on 10 May 1998.
Abdul Kalam is on left (silver hair);
R. Chidambaram is holding file;
Anil Kakodkar is behind Chidambaram wearing glasses; K. Santhanam is at extreme right.
In nuclear parlance, a test is described as a 'fizzle' when it fails to deliver the desired yield.
There would perhaps be nothing new about the controversy, as India's claims that the tests had indeed met the benchmarks set for them was hotly contested within a few days of the tests itself by foreign governments and monitoring agencies, which pointed out discrepancies between the Indian claims and the seismic 'readings' of their monitoring machines.

The thermonuclear (Hydrogen bomb) test was said to have yielded 45 kilotons (KT) but the claim was challenged by Western experts who said it was not more than 20-25 KT.
Santhanam, who was director for 1998 test site preparations, apparently made the admission, at a semi-public seminar on the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty at the Institute of Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA) on Tuesday. The seminar followed the Chatham House Rule, under which the identity of the speaker is not revealed, though what he or she said is freely quoted.
Santhanam apparently stressed at the seminar that India needed to conduct more tests to improve its nuclear weapons programme. "There is no country in the world," he emphasised, "which managed to get its thermonuclear weapon right in just one test."
Preparing to fire the devices in the control bunker, code named "Deer Park." K. Santhanam transfers the firing keys to the range safety officer Vasudev. Yesterday he told a daily, ''Based upon the seismic measurements and expert opinion from world over, it is clear that the yield in the thermonuclear device test was much lower than what was claimed. I think it is well documented and that is why I assert that India should not rush into signing the CTBT.''
All this directly contradicts government claims that India has all the data required from such explosions and can now manage with computer simulations. It is also the first confession from one of the original Pokharan-II scientists that the thermonuclear test had not quite worked out to the extent that the Indian government would have liked.
Cat amongst the pigeons
Howsoever hard the government may try to deny, it is a given that the Indo-US nuclear treaty is predicated on India not testing nuclear weapons again. This was the point around which the whole domestic debate had revolved. If Santhanam avows that the country, for the sake of a robust and credible nuclear deterrence, needs to test again then the carefully crafted structure of the Indo-US nuclear treaty begins to come apart at the seams.
Experts at home are already beginning to hail Santhanam's "extremely courageous stand," even as former president Dr APJ Abdul Kalam has stepped in to clarify that the tests were successful and had generated the desired yield.
"After the test, there was a detailed review, based on the two experimental results: (i) seismic measurement close to the site and around and (ii) radioactive measurement of the material after post shot drill in the test site," Kalam said.
"From these data, it has been established by the project team that the design yield of the thermo-nuclear test has been obtained," said Kalam, who as director general of the Defence Research and Development Organisation, spearheaded the nuclear tests in 1998.
But then, in 1998, even as Dr Kalam was declaring success, then Department of Atomic Energy chief, R Chidambaram claimed that they had deliberately kept the secondary stage of the thermonuclear Shakti- I explosion low so as not to damage a nearby village.
This was his way of trying to explain away the low yields from the first of the two tests, which foreign sources were claiming was not commensurate with the test of a successful thermonuclear weapon design.
There were also other explanations.
Shakti-1
Nuclear bomb (probably the Shakti I thermonuclear device) being lowered into test shaft.The May 1998 'Buddha Smiles' tests involved six designs of varying yields. The tests were organized into two groups that were fired separately on two separate days. The first group consisted of a thermonuclear device, a fission bomb and a sub-kiloton device. The second group consisted of two more sub-kiloton devices.
The first group of explosions were dubbed Shakti I-III and the second group, with two explosions, Shakti IV-V. A third design Shakti VI was never exploded.
What is causing the controversy is the yield from Shakti-1, the thermonuclear device, or the hydrogen bomb, which was also the largest device tested.
A thermonuclear device operates in two stages. First a normal plutonium implosion device (primary) acts as a trigger to set off a fusion or thermonuclear process (secondary) that releases a vast amount of energy.
Shakti I was a two-stage thermonuclear design, using a boosted fission primary, which DAE chief R Chidambaram claimed had a yield of 43kt (also described as 43kt +/- 3kt). Western sources claimed that the yield was in the range of 22-25kt. They also pointed out that a plain reading of the Indian government's own seismic evidence puts the yield at, or below, 25kt.
This was, of course, disputed by BARC scientists (including Dr Anil Kakodkar, who was part of the team) who published a series of papers showing through radio- chemical analysis that the yields were as expected.
Dust columns from the Shakti test series on 11 May 1998The doyen of Indian nuclear scientists, PK Iyengar, former chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission and one of the original group who worked on the Indian nuclear weapons programme almost from inception, and was involved in the 1974 nuclear test, had this to offer Reuters on 12 May, a day after the tests.
Iyengar spoke about the differing sizes of the Shakti I-III series and how they corresponded to three differing weapon designs. The first group of explosions, as has been pointed out, consisted of a thermonuclear device, a fission bomb and a sub-kiloton device.
According to Iyengar, the smallest (sub-kiloton) was the size that could be used as an artillery fired shell, or dropped from a combat support aircraft. The mid-size, fission bomb was from a standard fission device equivalent to about 12 kilotons -- the size that might be dropped from a bomber plane.
The largest of the three warheads tested on that day, he said, was not a full hydrogen bomb. Most of its explosive force came from the primary, a fission device which serves as a trigger for the H-bomb's big fusion explosion. According to Iyengar, the device contained only a token amount of the hydrogen variant tritium. It showed, he said, that India's thermonuclear technology worked, but did not produce the megaton explosion typical of a full H-bomb.
"We need not go for a megaton explosion while testing an H-bomb," said Iyengar. "Such tests are required only if we are planning for a total destruction of the opposite side. They don't have relevance in our strategy."
But then there are explanations and explanations and the fact remains that there is an ambiguity around the May 1998 tests that remains unresolved to this day. A scientist of the seniority and stature of Santhanam is not given to shooting off his mouth unnecessarily.
If Santhanam's claim is correct, then no responsible Indian prime minister can agree to signing the CTBT even as its own nuclear arsenal suffers from defects in design and technology. Fancy rollouts of nuclear powered submarines can only be an object of derision for powers who need to be impressed with our deterrence capabilities.
An unequivocal statement on the issue, either by scientists or bureaucrats, would be too much to expect, given the sensitive nature of the subject matter.
Now for a look at why the controversy may have reared up again after eleven years.
Engaging Washington
Though the controversy is old hat for security experts and analysts, Santhanam's revelation now sets the cat amongst the pigeons in the policy-making spheres of the government (read the PMO).
The controversy couldn't have come at a worse time for the UPA government's somewhat beleaguered prime minister Dr Manmohan Singh, who not only contemplates a widespread drought situation in the country but has also just finished wiping off a lot of egg from his face - post the NAM summit at Sharm-el-Shaikh.
The Indian prime minster is now all set to depart for Washington, where a newly installed Obama administration will receive him as its first foreign guest - a unique honour. What awaits him there may not be very difficult to guess.
Post-Sharm-el-Sheikh, secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, found herself fending off accusations that it was under US pressure that India made the kind of concessions it had to Pakistan.

Brushing off such accusations in an interaction with the press, she tried to put a positive spin on the relationship reiterating the Obama administration's commitment to the Indo-US civil nuclear agreement.
However, she said, on her forthcoming trip to India she would like to discuss with Indian leaders the ways to prevent the "proliferation of nuclear material and weapons to state and non-state actors that pose a threat to India, to the US, and to the many countries around the world."
This was a polite way of saying that NPT/CTBT linked issues were back on the table, and also a message that the Democratic Party had returned to the evangelical mode of operations in foreign affairs, setting aside a more laissez faire approach of Republican administrations.
Clinton redux
The Obama administration has made its non-proliferation agenda amply clear, not just through policy statements, but more importantly in the recruitment of a large number of people to positions of influence in its administration who are ex-non-proliferation zealots of some sort or the other.
The appointment of the new ambassador to India, Timothy Roemer, is only one example of non-proliferation 'experts' occupying positions of influence in the administration.
Given the mass recruitment of ex-members and policy wonks from the Bill Clinton administration to staff positions in the new administration, we need to remember that the Clinton administration, amongst all the wars that it engaged in with a Republican-controlled House and Senate, was also involved in a bruising, and unsuccessful, war with the Republicans on the issue of ratifying the CTBT. This apart from a much-publicised, and a very unsuccessful, attempt to push through a Hillary Clinton-promoted health care plan.
No surprises, but both agendas are now back on top of the table with the new Democratic administration. After eight years of a Republican presidency, the only existing recruitment pool that the Obama administration can now tap to man its offices and policy making positions is from the Clinton administration. A lot of baggage, ideological and otherwise, will travel with them.
Obama has promised on the international stage that he would get the CTBT ratified at home and, along with Russia, make 'deep' cuts to the country's nuclear arsenal. In this task he would appear to have an easier job on his hands than Clinton, given his majority in both Houses of the legislature.
Obama stepped into Washington with a lot of 'moral' authority with calls for 'Change.' As the recession wears on and he gets embroiled deeper in pushing his health care plan through the Congress and the Senate, he also sees his approval ratings slipping by the day from their dramatic highs.
A chastened Republican Party, still nursing its wounds from the drubbing it has received in recent polls, is not likely to offer any easy victories to him, if it can help it. The CTBT never made any sense to them, and it is a matter of record that every Republican president has dumped the issue on assuming power. It is also a matter of record that every Democrat president has put it high on his agenda.
Obama still needs 67 votes in the Senate, for ratification requires two-thirds majority, and at best he has 60. Even less if the vacuum caused by the passing away of Senator Ted Kennedy is not filled quickly enough.
As he gets bogged down in Health Care reforms the Republicans may seize the chance and deny him any traction over CTBT-related issues as well, a treaty which they distrust almost as heartily as the Democrats seem to embrace it.
It is up to the Indian prime minister to make of the situation what he will.
He will be aware that the Indo-US nuclear deal was the only significant achievement that the Bush presidency could boast of. The deal was also achieved in the face of cut-throat opposition - not just here in India, but also in the United States.
Once the treaty was done with, both countries went on to conduct elections from which a significant difference has emerged – the Indian opposition was completely sidelined by the parliamentary elections, whereas in the United States the opposition has moved into power.
Non-proliferation is a significant component of the ideological baggage of the Democratic Party and its proponents had watched with horror as the Indo-US nuclear deal progressed to maturity. It is now baying for blood.
This report may appear trifling, but is an indication of the language of the new Obama administration. On 19 August this year secretary of state Hillary Clinton swore-in her close ally, former Rep Ellen Tauscher, as undersecretary of State for arms control and international security.
We quote verbatim from a published report: "The fact that secretary Clinton personally swore-in the new undersecretary is a testament to the very close relationship between these two veteran female politicians, a connection that goes beyond any formal bureaucratic lines of authority," a non-proliferation hand in attendance said.
It's also "a reflection of the personal importance secretary Clinton places on the broad issues of arms control and non-proliferation. Indeed, for all the recent musings over where Hillary Clinton can make her mark in this administration, forging progress on strengthening the global non-proliferation regime and securing Senate ratification of such key agreements like the START follow-on treaty and the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty can lay the foundation for a very strong [Clinton] legacy."
Amen!
Of tests and CTBTs
Here are some statistics that we may look at for our reading pleasure:
From 1945 until 2008, there have been over 2,000 nuclear tests conducted worldwide.
Between 1945 and 1992, when the United States of America stopped nuclear testing, it has conducted 1,054 atmospheric and underground nuclear tests. The Soviet Union conducted 715 nuclear tests between 1949 and 1990.
Compare this with the six explosions conducted by India, spread over three days, since the first one in 1974. The 1998 tests have been declared adequate by Indian authorities, so the question arises what have the Americans been trying to achieve with their 1,000-plus nuclear tests?
This is not even taking into consideration hundred of tests undertaken by the UK, France, China etc. Why are such huge numbers of tests required?
Does it say something for Indian genius, or is there another, worrying, story that emerges from these statistics?
As for the CTBT, of the total of 181 States that have signed the treaty only 148 have also ratified it. Amongst the nuclear weapons-states only three nations have done so - the Russian Federation, France and the United Kingdom.
The notable absentees are the United States of America and China.
To enter into force, the CTBT must be signed and ratified by 44 specific States. These are States that participated in the negotiations of the Treaty in 1996 and possessed nuclear power or research reactors at the time. Only thirty-five of these States have ratified the treaty.
Of the nine remaining States, China, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Israel and the United States have signed the treaty but not ratified it. The Democratic People's Republic of Korea, India and Pakistan are yet to sign it.
 
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Guys there are doubts the we dont even have full computer power to simulate complete thermonuclear tests, many people here are very confident about our computer simulation technology without knowing that whetehr we have full capability for carrying out thermonuclear explosions???

Thermonuclear pretensions: India Today - Latest Breaking News from India, World, Business, Cricket, Sports, Bollywood.

Thermonuclear pretensions
Bharat Karnad
August 28, 2009
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K Santhanam's admission that the hydrogen bomb test in 1998 was a dud elicited a curious response from Brajesh Mishra, the national security adviser at the time. The BJP coalition government, he said, chose to believe the then DRDO chief, APJ Abdul Kalam, who, Mishra claimed, vouched for the success of the test.

This raises the question whether Kalam, a rocket engineer, knows more about nuclear weapon systems than nuclear scientists such as Santhanam or even a host of nuclear stalwarts, including P. K. Iyengar, former chairman, Atomic Energy Commission, et al, who went public immediately after the tests with their doubts about the efficacy of a design yielding meagre fusion energy ( no more than 20 kilotons, according to Santhanam) and who adduced convincing scientific reasons why the test was a fizzle.

In the event, the defence ministry spokesman's brave attempt to reassure the public by saying that nuclear security- wise, the country is adequately " covered" rapidly reduced the controversy to a joke considering that both the ministry and, in fact, the armed forces, have been studiously kept out of the " nuclear loop". But why are Messrs Iyengar and Santhanam convinced that resumption of nuclear testing and the rejection of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty that Washington has begun pressuring the Manmohan Singh regime to sign, are essential? Firstly, because data and that too from a single, flawed, thermonuclear test is grossly inadequate for the purposes of writing simulation software, compared to 1,800 tests conducted by the US, 800 tests by Russia, and 75- odd tests by China. And because the most advanced Indian computers, according to Anil Kakodkar, chairman, DAE, are capable of only two trillion operations per second when, for realistically simulating a thermonuclear explosion, the computing speeds required are in the range of 1,000 trillion operations per second.

Secondly, testing is not necessary if sophisticated and inordinately expensive technological infrastructure is available.

Thus, for example, an inertial confinement fusion facility to produce miniature thermonuclear explosions to help design new types of hydrogen weapons, and the dual axis radiographic hydro test facility to improve the boosted fission trigger for thermonuclear weapons, is why countries such as the US need never test again.

But for an India without such paraphernalia, further testing is an imperative.

Repeated testing begets reliable, proven and safe nuclear and thermonuclear armaments and enhances the credibility of a country's deterrent posture.

Richard Garwin, a renowned American

thermonuclear weaponeer, has indicated the scale of complexity involved in configuring a workable hydrogen bomb.

Some 2,000 design features and processes have to work just right, he has stated, for the thermonuclear weapon design to be deemed a success. H OW IS one to square this observation with the Indian government's view that, notwithstanding the deficiencies in test data and limitations in computing speeds, the Indian weapons designers have to cope with, its weapons are credible? Moreover, without serial testing how is the Indian military end- user to know whether the presumed design kinks have actually been ironed out and the weapons rendered capable of performance as advertised? Besides, the questionable provenance of India's " thermonuclear" weapons is too well known for them to hold any terrors for an adversary willing to take a chance on calling India's bluff in a strategic crisis. China may do that in the context of its own wide array of weapons and warheads, each extensively

tested mated to their vectors - a range of land and sea- based ballistic and cruise missiles.

India, in contrast, has tested an operationally ready 20 KT fission warhead and that too only once in 1998, as part of the Shakti series. The government has sedulously propagated a myth that all nuclear weapons are equal in their impact, that an Indian 20 KT " firecracker" is the equal of a 3.3 megaton standard issue warhead atop the Chinese Dongfeng- 21 intermediate range ballistic missiles targeted at India, which is patent nonsense.

The psychological dread generated by the mere threat of use of a megaton ( or, million tons of TNT equivalent) bomb by Beijing cannot be matched by a retaliatory threat posed by small yield nuclear ordnance of the type the Indian strategic forces bank on. Faced with thermonuclear annihilation, Delhi will quickly fold; after all, the Indian government has routinely been unhinged by lot less. Without a regime of open ended thermonuclear testing, the Indian strategic forces will have to contend with uncommon risks.

Sidney Drell, a reputed American physicist, has mooted a simple formula to judge the quality of deterrence provided by physically untested nuclear and thermonuclear weapons. One has to calculate, he said, whether the margins of performance of such an arsenal are greater than the risks the nation faces. In the matter of the Indian strategic thermonuclear weaponry, it is plain to see that it is all risk and uncertain performance.

Bharat Karnad is at the Centre for Policy Research and author of India's Nuclear Policy
 
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INDIANBULL

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Also people what are your views about North Korean tests???
Many in new Delhi think tank believe or are suspicious about the NoKo, chinese and pakistani axis and beleive that thos NoKo tests were infact Pakistani or Chinese designs, anyway it means that Pakistan and China are still conducting tests under the disguise of NoKo???
These recent developments are surely unnerving and govt should do something to raise our deterence levels to assure security of our nation.

Things are becoming clear now that GoI is playing bluff(by signing 123 civil nuclear deal) with the national security, both BJP and Congress are to be blamed, surely if our H-bomb wouldnt have been ready we would be talking like this.
 
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Again a senior scientist involved in 1974 test expressing his opinion:
India needs fresh tests to build N-deterrent: India Today - Latest Breaking News from India, World, Business, Cricket, Sports, Bollywood.

Former Atomic Energy Commission chairman Dr P. K. Iyengar has backed the claim of K. Santhanam that the hydrogen bomb tested in 1998 was a failure.

On Thursday, Iyengar advocated fresh tests to ensure a credible deterrence in a worsening regional security context, but criticised the government for forfeiting India's " sovereignty to test" by signing the civilian nuclear treaty with the US. Iyengar said there has been no certification of the thermonuclear device blasted in 1998. " I have always said that the test was not successful. The signature of the nuclear blasts recorded worldwide did not suggest a thermonuclear explosion.

But the government claimed otherwise," he said.

But Iyengar also wondered why Santhanam's admission came 11 years late. " Why is he doing it now? Maybe he is breaking down under the burden.

Old age can change people," he said in a telephonic interview from Mumbai.

The veteran scientist said three parties have to agree to the efficacy of a weapon - the Atomic Energy Commission, the Prime Minister's Office as well as the National Security Agency and the armed forces. " I have not seen any such statement," he said.

In the current regional context, with China having thermonuclear bombs, and threats from elsewhere, India's credible deterrence should include a similar weapon, Iyengar said.

China tested the hydrogen bomb in 1967 - after the US ( 1952), the Soviet Union ( 1953) and the UK ( 1957).

In a recent technical paper, Iyengar has given details of the tests. On May 11, 1998, India conducted simultaneously three nuclear explosions underground.

" One was of very low yield, less than a kiloton and did not matter for the estimation of the yield. Of the two larger explosions, it was claimed one was of an improved fission bomb and the other was a thermonuclear device," Iyengar wrote.

In the scientific paper, he claimed it was difficult to believe that the thermonuclear test had been successful even going by India's claims on the yield.

" A thermonuclear device using the secondary ( device) is meant to be detonated when you want the yield to be several hundred kilotons, going up to several megatons," Iyengar noted.

Iyengar, who was vocal against India entering into a civilian nuclear agreement with the US and also opposes the nuclear non- proliferation treaty ( NPT), says technology is essential for defence. " Tipu Sultan lost his battle against the British because they had better arms.

Any country can be invaded," he argued.
Courtesy: Mail Today
 
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why the hell have all these scientists been quiet for the last 10 freaking years????
 

sayareakd

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can any one post the video of shakti test, thanks in advance........

GOI has to inform people of India, as to what they did in last 10 years about our thermo nuke and if they have new miniture thermo nuke ready to be tested then we should know about this.

It will be Parliament of India which shall decide if we want to test or not as the will of people of India speakes though the parliament of India.
 

ahmedsid

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Why K Santhanam said Pokharan II was not a success

Why Santhanam said Pokharan II was not a success: Rediff.com news

It was a major embarrassment for the country when a senior scientist of the Defence Research and Development Organisation, K Santhanam, made the revelation that Pokhran II, India's nuclear tests in 1998, was not entirely successful.

His statement that comes almost a decade after the test has landed the scientist in hot water. However, Santhanam says he stands by what he has said and has no intention of changing his stance.

In a telephonic interview with rediff.com's Vicky Nanjappa, Santhanam explains why there was a necessity to make this revelation 11 years later. He also disagrees with former President A P J Abdul Kalam [ Images ] who has said that Pokhran II was a complete success.

As I have said earlier, based on the seismic measurements and also the opinions from experts, there was a much lower yield in the thermonuclear device test. It was lesser than what had been claimed at that time.

Your statement has created a furore in the nation.

I have just stated that facts. I did what I thought was necessary and I don't see why there needs to be an embarrassment due to this.

But you could have said this at that time itself, immediately after the tests were conducted.

I don't agree with you. I thought that the timing was right and hence decided on making this statement now.

There has been a hue and cry since your statement. Is there any chance you want to change your stand?

No. Why should I change my stand? I will always stand by what I have said and there is no question of changing my stand or my statement.

Even the expert opinion from across the world makes it clear that the yield in the thermonuclear device test was much lower than what was claimed.

I have maintained and will always maintain that the test was not more than 60 per cent successful in terms of the yield it generated. I have made this assessment based on the report of the instrumentation data that is available and also the programme coordinator.

Former President A P J Abdul Kalam, who was also involved with the tests, has said that Pokhran II was entirely successful.

I would like to react to that. First of all, Dr Kalam is not a nuclear scientist. He is a missile scientist and he was not present there at that time. He is blissfully ignorant of the facts. Do I need to say more?

All I want to say is that I stand my ground on this issue.

Home Minister P Chidambaram [ Images ] too has shared Kalam's view.

Chidambaram, being part of the establishment, is just repeating what the others are saying, like a parrot.

You have been accused of making this statement after over a decade at the insistence of people against the Bharatiya Janata Party [ Images ].

Let people say what they want. As I maintained I thought that the timing was right and hence this statement was made. I was not provoked or coaxed by anyone to issue such a statement and let me assure you that there is no malice involved in this.

You speak so much about the timing of making your statement. What is this timing exactly?

There is a change in the administration in the United States of America. They are bound to further pressurise India to sign the CTBT. In such an event it was necessary to make such a statement or speak the truth on the issue so that India does not rush into signing the CTBT.

Therefore, I say the timing of my statement was perfectly right.
 

Bhagat Singh

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I think it is a another episode of sensational journalism which is becoming a norm in India. I like many believe we have sufficient resources to keep Pakistan and China at bay.

Remember friends, we have been able to defend our land before we had nuclear weapons and we can certainly defend it now.

If others believe we are weak then come on and try us on.
 

Koji

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I think it is a another episode of sensational journalism which is becoming a norm in India. I like many believe we have sufficient resources to keep Pakistan and China at bay.

Remember friends, we have been able to defend our land before we had nuclear weapons and we can certainly defend it now.

If others believe we are weak then come on and try us on.
Do you think the British would've conquered India if she had a weapon that threatened mutual destruction? The whole idea of MAD is make your enemies believe that you can destroy them. Now with this report of failed nuclear tests, it puts doubts into their minds that India can effectively launch a counter-attack.
 

Antimony

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Do you think the British would've conquered India if she had a weapon that threatened mutual destruction? The whole idea of MAD is make your enemies believe that you can destroy them. Now with this report of failed nuclear tests, it puts doubts into their minds that India can effectively launch a counter-attack.
It does no such thing. If you read the Colonel's posts, lower yield devices are effective enough for deterrance purposes. Do you seriously think China will now take India more lightly than before?
 

jaganpjames

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my take in this whole matter is K Santhanam is doing an ultimate sacrifise, matrydom.. the person who was assigned to cover up the pokharan II and did it most efficiently ( no us satelite could find the test preparation/nor any double agents knew about it).
he is concurrance with GOI , and he has done it. as was expected/ Now how on earth GoI is going to sign CTBT ? thats it.. end of CTBT, no Indian govt will sign CTBT. and that was the sole purpose of the entire revalation.
 

Pintu

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http://www.ptinews.com/news/254309_Controversy-over-Pokhran-II-needless--Manmohan


File photo of Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh during
a election rally in Bikaner. PTI Photo


Controversy over Pokhran-II needless: Manmohan

STAFF WRITER 12:11 HRS IST

Ramsar (Raj), Aug 29 (PTI) Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh Saturday said the recent controversy over the 1998 Pokhran tests was "needless" and that former president A P J Abdul Kalam has clarified that the explosions were successful

"A wrong impression has been given by some scientists which is needless. Kalam has clarified that the tests were successful," Singh told reporters here

He was asked about the bombshell dropped by a former DRDO scientist K Santhanam that the Pokhran-II was not a full success

Santhanam, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) representative for the tests, had claimed that the thermonuclear or hydrogen bomb was of low yield and not the one that would meet the country's strategic objectives.
 

sayareakd

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Do you think the British would've conquered India if she had a weapon that threatened mutual destruction? The whole idea of MAD is make your enemies believe that you can destroy them. Now with this report of failed nuclear tests, it puts doubts into their minds that India can effectively launch a counter-attack.
check this out and then think who will take the risk

YouTube - Shakti
 
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one bomb out of the five tested was not upto par what is the big deal?? the other 4 were a success.among the 4 was a hydrogen bomb and a mini nuke so it was highly successful, this is common for nations to test what designs to implement ,the media has overblown this to the point of stupidity.
 

sayareakd

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LF their has to be sufficent proof that our thrmo nuke failed, given by the fact that village in the area, developed cracks, if the yield of the nukes would be higher then those villages would be raised to ground.

This video shows thermo nuke test, if the yield was suppose to be more then i wounder what would happen to test area.
 

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