Please hindus, don't say: "All Religions are the Same"

[asingh10]

Absolutely!! First it was generic prayers in schools which became unislamic, then came Vande Matram and Now it's Jana Gana Mana.....these people are the MOST patriotic community in the world !! The day they say we do no believe in the concept of India (which they have done in the past (1947) and doing even today) they will become Epitome of Patriotism!

I wish I could be as open minded as the self proclaimed intellectuals of the leftist peddling all sorts of aplogetic crap and have convincing power to make people accept all thses things are sign of islamic patriotism, however the sad part is that I'm a narrow minded RW and going to remain so......can't help it!

(the leftists have already started spewing BS that singing or paying respect to national anthem does not amount to patriotism, by giving such dumb analogies that it may make isis look like patriotic Indians)

More so, I answered you twice, still you find someone else's answer better.....you have a right to choose, as you are not in Darul-islam (your ideal fantasy world) and as you are not a dhimmmi .....yet !!

You should know what you are dealing with when this guy uses sites like "tiger sunni" and "Hinduism-Islam initiative" to prove that there is beef in hindu scriptures :-

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ism-in-ancient-india.54425/page-2#post-792070

Jihadis take Islam to its logical conclusion. Subversionists like this guy will obfuscate the logical conclusions (for non muslims) hiding behind "liberal" "agnostic" "marxist" mask as you can see in his post about anthems & "non-native religions = native religions" or when he tried to shut up @Mad_Indian for criticizing Islam. Sharia Bolsheviks.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

You should know what you are dealing with when this guy uses sites like "tiger sunni" and "Hinduism-Islam initiative" to prove that there is beef in hindu scriptures :-

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ism-in-ancient-india.54425/page-2#post-792070

whether you like it or not hindus ate beef, that's the truth, even vivekannda confirmed it.

Jihadis take Islam to its logical conclusion. Subversionists like this guy will obfuscate the logical conclusions (for non muslims) hiding behind "liberal" "agnostic" "marxist" mask as you can see in his post about anthems & "non-native religions = native religions" or when he tried to shut up @Mad_Indian for criticizing Islam. Sharia Bolsheviks.

Yeh, everybody who is speaking againt your one sided narration and hate mongering is wearing masks.

 

[maomao]

You should know what you are dealing with when this guy uses sites like "tiger sunni" and "Hinduism-Islam initiative" to prove that there is beef in hindu scriptures :-

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ism-in-ancient-india.54425/page-2#post-792070

Jihadis take Islam to its logical conclusion. Subversionists like this guy will obfuscate the logical conclusions (for non muslims) hiding behind "liberal" "agnostic" "marxist" mask as you can see in his post about anthems & "non-native religions = native religions" or when he tried to shut up @Mad_Indian for criticizing Islam. Sharia Bolsheviks.

How do you know he is not a rabid anti-Hindu islamist or a marxist?

 

[maomao]

I like these people coming out in the open and showing their true colors -- truly a religion of peace:

 

[asingh10]

whether you like it or not hindus ate beef, that's the truth, even vivekannda confirmed it.

1. Nice diversion but the main issue isn't whether Hindus ate beef once upon a time. The issue is why did you cite blatantly Islamist propoganda sites for it instead of citing Hindu scriptures or even Vivekananda for that matter ? That exposes your hidden agenda.

2. So what if Hindus did beef back in the Vedic era ? Beliefs evolved. It doesn't matter if Hindus did it in a distant past (early Vedic era) - most scriptures recommend against cow killing. Cow reverence is a very much a part of Hinduism for atleast 2 millenium. It doesn't change the fact that Muslim invaders for the 1000 years slaughtered cows to denigrate and "show the kuffar their place" because they *knew* cows were holy to Hindus *then*. Here's your Sufi Sheikh Sirhindi's in his own memoirs where he says cow slaughter should be used to show supremacy of Islam and humiliate the Hindus :-

Khwaja Moinuddin Chisti :-

Ahmed Shah Abdali at Sikh Harmandir Sahib :-

I can cite many more e.g. right down to contemporary times when your Islamist buddies have thrown beef inside temples or slaughtered in front of temple. Has nothing to do with your taste buds. You bat for cow slaughter, not because you are an advocate for freedom of expression but you want to show the kuffar who the boss is. If you truly were an advocate for freedom of expression, you wouldn't be getting your chaddi in a twist over Mad_Indian's criticism of Islam.

Yeh, everybody who is speaking againt your one sided narration and hate mongering is wearing masks.

Yes as opposed to your one sided crypto-Abrahamistic narrative of creating false equivalences between Islam and Hinduism, pot kettle black much buddy ?

It's not just my narration btw, most people see through your pretenses. You were yourself whining how people called you Pakistani, islamist, sickular etc in the other thread.

 

[OneGrimPilgrim]

@asingh10 - your post reminded me of an email I had got about 2 months back. it was from the Agniveer team, and was about a book that Mr. Sanjeev and his team had written and launched, demolishing the pop-myths surrounding the 'life-and-death' issue of 'beef-eating'. I was at sea at that time and unfortunately couldn't check it and forgot about it later. thanks to your post I got reminded again. did you know about it?

 

[asingh10]

How do you know he is not a rabid anti-Hindu islamist or a marxist?

Quoting Islamist propoganda sites and flip flopping on FOS when it comes to Islam pretty much gives away his agenda.

There are plenty of Hindu sources themselves he could have picked to prove the claim of Beef.

But this guy chooses Islamic websites that are themed around proselytizing Hindus. Why do you think that is?

 

[OneGrimPilgrim]

@asingh10 - and yes, regarding the Chishti....am surprised at what you've quoted about him. not aware of the truth. however, one thing I would say which would be apt to this thread, that in the normal Hindu I think it has been traditionally fostered (by co-community people and by experiences) that 'all religions are equal', and probably thus his reverence for all Yogis, saints and supposed saints. I write this because I've read one deceased gentleman's experiences of phenomena from the beyond, with Moinuddin Chishti. but I now contrast that with the experience of one more person, a Bengali exorcist of the 1900s, who used to claim that most of these 'sufis' have/had some decent-to-good command over the black arts, and thus could even 'operate' to varying extent after their bodily demise, the more crooked ones among them then 'captivating' the psyches of some visiting their shrines; I now suspect the Chishti to also be one of those albeit more adroit at his 'thing'. don't know.

 

[OneGrimPilgrim]

Quoting Islamist propoganda sites and flip flopping on FOS when it comes to Islam pretty much gives away his agenda.

There are plenty of Hindu sources themselves he could have picked to prove the claim of Beef.

But this guy chooses Islamic websites that are themed around proselytizing Hindus. Why do you think that is?

Jains in MP revere a lady Jain Muni (can't recall her name). she used to be a princess some 400-500 yrs ago, and it was during her wedding ceremony that she was aghast at the sight of a number of cattle and animals herded up to be slaughtered for the wedding-feast. upon being enquired by the bridegroom for her worry, she explained her predicament and pain to him, and said she wanted to renounce worldly affairs, and did so. the bridegroom became her disciple.

 

[maomao]

Quoting Islamist propoganda sites and flip flopping on FOS when it comes to Islam pretty much gives away his agenda.

There are plenty of Hindu sources themselves he could have picked to prove the claim of Beef.

But this guy chooses Islamic websites that are themed around proselytizing Hindus. Why do you think that is?

This is exactly what I meant!!

 

[asingh10]

@asingh10 - your post reminded me of an email I had got about 2 months back. it was from the Agniveer team, and was about a book that Mr. Sanjeev and his team had written and launched, demolishing the pop-myths surrounding the 'life-and-death' issue of 'beef-eating'. I was at sea at that time and unfortunately couldn't check it and forgot about it later. thanks to your post I got reminded again. did you know about it?

Agniveer is wrong about beef. Here's a good article from shatavadhani :-

There are many references to meat-eating in our scriptures. In the oldest composition of them all, theRigveda Saṃhitā, we see that our ancients cooked the flesh of oxen and offered it to the gods, especially Indra (see RVS 10.86.14 or 10.27.2, for example). Horses, bulls, oxen, barren cows, and rams were sacrificed for Agni (RVS 10.91.14). Śatapatha Brāhmaṇa 3.1.2.21 says that sage Yājñavalkya would eat the meat of cows and oxen, provided it was tender. Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad 6.4.18 says that if a couple wants to beget a son who will grow up to be a great scholar, they have to eat rice cooked with beef, along with ghee. Śatapatha Brāhmaṇa 11.7.1.3 goes on to say that meat is the best kind of food!

http://indiafacts.org/the-hindu-view-on-food-and-drink/

And keep in mind this is an "Right wing" source.

Also apart from this story of Maharaja Rantideva who sacrificed 2000 cattle in his kitchen everyday to feed the poor in his kingdom.

"And in days of yore, O Brahmana, two thousand animals used to be killed every day in the kitchen of king Rantideva; and in the same manner two thousand cows were killed every day; and, O best of regenerate beings, king Rantideva acquired unrivalled reputation by distributing food with meat every day."

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m03/m03207.htm


Hindus don't need to be apologetic about this, everyone has evolved from a Hunter-Gatherer form of lifestyle. Point is Hindu beliefs evolved, one can read the arguments of Krishna on Indra worship in Govardhan episode. Krishna stops an Indra yajna that involved cattle slaughter. Also many stories in Harivamsha, Bhagvatam about cow reverence. Or even the Brahman Dhammika sutta of Buddha which explains why the ancient Sages of India protected the Cow and treated it like a family.

https://suttacentral.net/en/snp2.7

Any way like I said, there is more to this beef debate than just freedom-to-eat-whatever-i-want crap or "hindus ate beef once" argument that Islamists use. The Muslims were very cognizant of cow's sacredness to Hindus during that era when they were slaughtering and desecrating temples and gurdwaras with it, its irrelevant whether they were eating it themselves 3000 years ago. What else does a "Beef party" achieve but rubbing it into the faces of Hindus ? This desire for humiliating Hindus is central to Islamist demands, just watch Owaisi speeches. When we discuss beef, this fact needs to be kept in mind. Note the areas in India that are more touchy around cow slaughter and beef, its places in N.India that were brutalized by Muslims the most. Watch this video from Tarek Fatah, he explains it in simple terms :-

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/682282864122052608/pu/vid/318x180/tyjo0DetA6JHHn12.mp4

 

[OneGrimPilgrim]

@asingh10 - I understand. thus my post about the Jain muni. though am open to either of the scenarios - truth to what's promulgated as quoted in the scriptures, or the very real chance of incorrect translations. anything.

 

[asingh10]

I like these people coming out in the open and showing their true colors -- truly a religion of peace:

I think the more we get them to talk, the more they tie themselves into knots. Coming out of the taqiya/deception mode and getting real about their agenda. Will wake up more Hindus than anything else. I welcome it.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

1. Nice diversion but the main issue isn't whether Hindus ate beef once upon a time. The issue is why did you cite blatantly Islamist propoganda sites for it instead of citing Hindu scriptures or even Vivekananda for that matter ? That exposes your hidden agenda.

2. So what if Hindus did beef back in the Vedic era ? Beliefs evolved. It doesn't matter if Hindus did it in a distant past (early Vedic era) - most scriptures recommend against cow killing. Cow reverence is a very much a part of Hinduism for atleast 2 millenium. It doesn't change the fact that Muslim invaders for the 1000 years slaughtered cows to denigrate and "show the kuffar their place" because they *knew* cows were holy to Hindus *then*. Here's your Sufi Sheikh Sirhindi's in his own memoirs where he says cow slaughter should be used to show supremacy of Islam and humiliate the Hindus :-

Khwaja Moinuddin Chisti :-

Ahmed Shah Abdali at Sikh Harmandir Sahib :-

I can cite many more e.g. right down to contemporary times when your Islamist buddies have thrown beef inside temples or slaughtered in front of temple. Has nothing to do with your taste buds. You bat for cow slaughter, not because you are an advocate for freedom of expression but you want to show the kuffar who the boss is. If you truly were an advocate for freedom of expression, you wouldn't be getting your chaddi in a twist over Mad_Indian's criticism of Islam.

That's all I was saying, hindus used to eat beef, then they changed it for changing needs.and like you said, it doesn't matter whether they eate it in the past or not, at present in secular india people should be free slaughter cows, not in public but in licenced slaughter houses. By supporting it i am not suppotting a illegitimate thing, tomorrow if you as a hindu ask what's right and rational, I will support that too. For example, common civil code, burqa ban/face cover ban , control on religious conversions, govt giving up control of temples etc. If I was a islamist I wouldn't be supporting common civil code and all those things i mentioned. But you cannont acknowledge that i am not a islamist becuse then you can't target me.

Btw Some thing need to be wrong just becuse its seen in islamic website.

Yes as opposed to your one sided crypto-Abrahamistic narrative of creating false equivalences between Islam and Hinduism, pot kettle black much buddy ?

It's not just my narration btw, most people see through your pretenses. You were yourself whining how people called you Pakistani, islamist, sickular etc in the other thread.

I have defended my positing rationaly where ever i posted anything. I never denied bad sides of Christianity or islam, i accept resonable points and criticism about those religions as well, i my self have pointed out those things, but what you guys have it here is unresonable criticism and hate mongering. i have talked about people here, in this forum attributing " false tags ' to me on various occations depending up on what subject i was debating. If i was defending a unresonable allegation or remark against christians then i am called as a christian, same goes for every thing else. I was also called a hindu banya etc on other forums when i was defending hinduism or secularism etc. Here in this forum almost all of you belong to right wing hindu ideology, so naturally my posts are going to be against your opinions, if you were neutral and secular people then i would have agreed with your posts( but then i might not have bothered to post since it will be boring to agree on most things), if you were a pro islamic orthodox group I would have opposed your opinions and then you would have call me a hindu or christain or communist.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Quoting Islamist propoganda sites and flip flopping on FOS when it comes to Islam pretty much gives away his agenda.

There are plenty of Hindu sources themselves he could have picked to prove the claim of Beef.

But this guy chooses Islamic websites that are themed around proselytizing Hindus. Why do you think that is?

Really? Clutching on straws

 

[asingh10]

That's all I was saying, hindus used to eat beef, then they changed it for changing needs.and like you said, it doesn't matter whether they eate it in the past or not, at present in secular india people should be free slaughter cows, not in public but in licenced slaughter houses. By supporting it i am not suppotting a illegitimate thing, tomorrow if you as a hindu ask what's right and rational, I will support that too. For example, common civil code, burqa ban/face cover ban , control on religious conversions, govt giving up control of temples etc. If I was a islamist I wouldn't be supporting common civil code and all those things i mentioned. But you cannont acknowledge that i am not a islamist becuse then you can't target me.

Sure, I'm all for revoking the beef ban. Let people have the freedom to eat what they want but let us also have full freedom of speech and expose the Islamist motivation and history behind cow slaughter in India, make it public. Let us also freely talk about history of Islam and Islamic invasion of India. Let's not ban any books or censor movies because it 'offends' a community. Let us offer full protection to Taslima Nasreen's and Salman Rushdiees.

You were opposed to criticism of Islam and implementing full FOS in India, just remember that everyone time you play this FOS/FOE card. It'll back fire on you.

Btw Some thing need to be wrong just becuse its seen in islamic website.

Why does a guy who keeps harping about logic/rationalism etc have to rely on a propoganda Islamic sites on Hinduism ? Islam-Hindu initiative site is specifically aimed at proselytizing Hindus.

I have defended my positing rationaly where ever i posted anything. I never denied bad sides of Christianity or islam, i accept resonable points and criticism about those religions as well, i my self have pointed out those things, but what you guys have it here is unresonable criticism and hate mongering. i have talked about people here, in this forum attributing " false tags ' to me on various occations depending up on what subject i was debating. If i was defending a unresonable allegation or remark against christians then i am called as a christian, same goes for every thing else. I was also called a hindu banya etc on other forums when i was defending hinduism or secularism etc. Here in this forum almost all of you belong to right wing hindu ideology, so naturally my posts are going to be against your opinions, if you were neutral and secular people then i would have agreed with your posts( but then i might not have bothered to post since it will be boring to agree on most things), if you were a pro islamic orthodox group I would have opposed your opinions and then you would have call me a hindu or christain or communist.

Sure we know how neutral you are to go around giving others certificates of secularism and neutrality and progressivism and what not.

 

[asingh10]

Really? Clutching on straws

Says the guy who's a champion at using false equivalences to balance the narrative.

Don't give yourself too much credit, you are too easy for me to clutch straws

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Sure, I'm all for revoking the beef ban. Let people have the freedom to eat what they want but let us also have full freedom of speech and expose the Islamist motivation and history behind cow slaughter in India, make it public. Let us also freely talk about history of Islam and Islamic invasion of India. Let's not ban any books or censor movies because it 'offends' a community. Let us offer full protection to Taslima Nasreen's and Salman Rushdiees.

You were opposed to criticism of Islam and implementing full FOS in India, just remember that everyone time you play this FOS/FOE card. It'll back fire on you.

I am all for people debating/publishing books about islamic invasions, criticising koran and prophets etc but with proper sources and in proper accadamic language, not in mad indian, satay type hate mongering language and style. I often read rationlaist books, they are critical about every religion including hinduism but many of those books are written in a bad taste and bad language..so while i agree with the substance in them, i could not digest the bad mouthing. I belive i have the right to not to belive in allah, jesus, vishnu etc, i also have the right to criticise them or the scriptures but I do not have the right to use abusive language against sombody elses god or prophet.


I opposed full freedom of expression not be used of any islamic ajenda, you should know that not only islamists but every community can be targetted with uncontrolled FOE. there will be hate speeches, abusive languages etc. Remember uncontrolled FOE will give MF Hussain like guys to paint hindu godess in nude and vulgar manner..you don't want that to happen do you ? I certainly don't want that to happen.

Why does a guy who keeps harping about logic/rationalism etc have to rely on a propoganda Islamic sites on Hinduism ? Islam-Hindu initiative site is specifically aimed at proselytizing Hindus.

I just posted what came up on google search, a site being islamic doesn't automatically make things said there to be wrong.

Sure we know how neutral you are to go around giving others certificates of secularism and neutrality and progressivism and what not.

I am not issuing any certificate, your postisions are self evident from your posts.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Says the guy who's a champion at using false equivalences to balance the narrative.

Don't give yourself too much credit, you are too easy for me to clutch straws

I can see that.......................

 

[asingh10]

Guy goes on and on about secularism/progressive/rationality but :-

1. Repeatedly uses false equivalences and sophistry to make absurd claims like Hindu terror = Islamic terror. You'll never catch this guy speaking on Malda or the recent story in his own home state where a man's studio was burnt down for criticizing Islamic practices :-
http://www.thenewsminute.com/articl...ld-studio-burnt-down-criticising-purdah-37201

But ask him about Dadri and he will give you entire essay's on the subject.

2. In this free speech thread, one can see how he keeps arguing against absolute FOS :-

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...jp-watches-silently.74585/page-4#post-1114219

This is after he supports PK movie and cow slaughter despite both being offensive to Hindus. Why this selectiveness about FOS comes into question when Islam is on receiving end ?

In the same thread he gets into an argument with mad_indian over islam, repeatedly told mad_indian that he was spreading "false things about islam ",says terrorists are misinterpreting quran, asks mods to take action against mad_indian for criticizing islam. :-

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...inions-demographics.74505/page-2#post-1112310

Such keen interest to defend Islam by a self proclaimed "agnostic". You'll be hardpressed to see him defending Hindus/Hinduism anywhere. Infact, his standard "logical/illogical" trope against religion is exclusively for Hinduism only.

3. Uses islamist propoganda sites that have obvious ulterior agendas against Hindus. "Islam-Hinduism initiative" and "Sunni tigers" talking about Beef in Hinduism. He could not come up with a Hindu source or even an atheist/agnostic source.


4. You can see more of his tom foolery in the paris terror thread, where he was in doubt about paris being a religiously motivated attack :-

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/paris-terror-attack-13-11.73898/page-9#post-1101812

Standard "terror has no religion" trope.


He think people on this forum are foolish enough to think that these are isolated incidences and people can't add up things or smell the bias in his posting patterns. There are many more e.g. but I'll leave it for people to judge.