PLAAF production technology level

Discussion in 'China' started by Armand2REP, Sep 27, 2011.

  1. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    We have had quite a few threads on Chinese aircraft production lately so I thought I would give an analysis of where PLAAF production tech is in relation to dated technology. So I am going to put a year on it...

    The first argument the Chinese fanboys will make is, hey man we make 5th gen J-20 stealth fighter so we are current with the West. Well boys, nothing could be further from that truth. J-20 is an LO strike aircraft testbed, much like F117 was back in 1981 with its first flight. J-20 is a strike aircraft pure and simple, fighter it is not and VLO like F117 it is not. So the date we have for that level is 1981 minus a few years for its lack of par with the US at that time...

    Moving on to legacy 4th gen... J-10 and J-11B are equivalents to early model F-16s and Su-27s which date to the late 70s, early 80s. They even use a simlar BVR missile which is a Sparrow clone called the PL-11. Rolling over to engine tech, the WS-10A is a poor AL-31F clone which is similar to the first version of it made in the early 80s. They are still stalled on it so subtract that to 1979 or so. Fanboys will say the avionics are up to Western standards... they are NOT. Think early block F-16s and Su-27SKs which in Western terms is mid 80s tech. They got a few years there thanks to the simple fact of commercial processing power of computers that was not available to USAF in the early 80s and cloning obsolete Russian radars.

    Bombers and tankers are based on upgraded Tu-16 clones which is a 50s aircraft. They cloned An-12s which is the mainstay of their transport and platform production strategy which is a late 50s early 60s design. Their attempt at strategic transport is not even on the map. With some upgrades you are looking at the equivalent of 60s era fleet with this production technology.

    There are many dates thrown around here but for fighter technology you are looking at about 1979 for an average year in tech level. For bomber/transports you are looking at about 1965. It is easy to say PLAAF production technology is at least 30 years behind the West in fighters and 45 years in transports. The problem for PLAAF trying to bridge that gap is the West is progressing too fast for them to catch up. They are breaking even with Russia which is stuck with about a 20 year edge but they are losing it if they can't make their current programmes reality.
     
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  3. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    I would say its early 90s tech compared to the US, West is also not a monolithic block countries like France are way behind the US, they dont have any stealth technology to begin with. There is no F-22 like aircraft made in france, the JSF owes a lot to Russian and US technology than Europe and its also not doing well.
     
  4. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Russian tech is mid-ninties compared to the US so you can't give PLAAF that much space.
     
  5. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    Russian tech is 10 years behind not more than that. The Red Flags showed holes in both US and Russian technology, i am sure you wont accept that anyway.
     
  6. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Nah, because Russian avionics are 15 years behind, F-22 was a mid 90s design at about the level PAK FA is today and it is nowhere near as stealthy as the F-22. Russian AESA tech is lucky to be considered mid-nineties testing in the US. The average missile technology would be even less than that, more like late 80s. Engine tech might be 10 years but you have to take all the averages which is about mid-ninties. Even their transports are stuck in the Soviet age.
     
  7. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    So now you want to throw in with the Yanks when it suits you? France is still way behind Russia and as i see it, after the Rafael there is no program and France may go in with JV fighters like JSF. The russians already have 5th gen technology and they always had it. The F-22 was inducted in 2004 however its also about the money the US has, 650billion dollars on defence budget. The Russians where the first to experiment with stealth and not to mention they had programs but did not have the funding.

    As i see it France will be part of Europe and it will be behind other nations in about 20 or 30years time. There is no future for France alone.
     
  8. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

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    Russia is behind not because they lack technology, its because they lack microprocessors and such similar technologies, which are produced solely in the US. That's the reason why many US weapons systems are both futuristic and accurate.

    Countries like France and England which are in good terms with USA can easily get their hands on embedded technology
     
  9. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Do you see any reference to France in that post?? ... noooo

    Rafael is an Israeli arms company. So what are you talking about?

    Should I cry for poor Mother Russia?

    France is part of the EU so why would it be alone?
     
  10. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    That is the largest reason Russia is behind the West in avionics and all electronics. Their semi-conductor industry is rudimentary.

    The West does have an extensive trade network in military technology they share with one another and Russia is cut out of that loop. 70% of Russian military use electronics are imported but most of them are commercial grade, not military grade.
     
  11. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

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    Thats because the west were and still are against the Russians.

    no nowadays many European countries and Israel have started selling best performance electronics to them
     
  12. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    The West still are against the Russians so the electronics they do buy are part of whole systems, not the sets Russia would want to mix into their own kit.
     
  13. cir

    cir Senior Member Senior Member

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    China is developing a new type of rocket artillery with a range of up to 500km, rendering New Delhi well within reach when the rockets are deployed along the Tibetan-Indian border near the Nanda Devi Biosphere Reserve.
     
  14. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

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    Not so true my friend, the US have supplied them computers for nuclear technology and research. Besides they can easily get their hands on electronics from secondary countries as i said
     
  15. guoyinag

    guoyinag Regular Member

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    IMO, China avation technology falls behind USA for almost 10-15 years in every field.

    But compared with france, russia and some other counties, the technical gap is not substantial. The radar and other electronic system technologis in china is equvilent or a little better than russia but behind western counties. And the most significal drawback occurs at the engine field which is already gained great concern in China. After 5 or 10 years, i wish this situation will be changed. Fortunately, the good news is that tremendous finicial, political and other supports are already carried out.
     
  16. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    In other posts you said dont put us with the yanks now you speak for the yanks..make up your mind mate! :D


    What is that fighter you people are trying to sell us? That one is way behind the Pak-Fa. That is pretty much Tejas technology and if MoD has half the brains they would have made an MRCA aircraft on the Tejas platform, not way advanced. A few things from the Israelis like Radars and Yanks for engines would have made it a worthy aircraft.


    If anything in a few decades there would be no France, i guess Russians will cry for you. The frank is already gone and i am sure everyone will learn english and Europe will become Engrope! :laugh:

    Either way the Rafal would be the last generation of completely French mate fighters.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011
  17. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    30 years behind the US, 25 years behind France and 15 years behind Russia. Avionics technologies of China are far inferior to even Russia. What they do have were cloned from late Soviet models. The most handicapped category is strategic aviation as China has ZERO capability to produce a modern transport. The most significant drawback are engines as China can't make turbofans or helicopter turboshafts. Turbofans come from Russia and turboshafts come from France. This is a systemic problem across all services and really prevents China from being independent militarily.
     
  18. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    if people think that china is not adding any thing on its own into the designs of 70s and 80s then i think they are wrong. its only body and engine which china puts into it. much of the internal things are replaced by chinese stuff.
     
  19. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    Russia is ahead than France in technology but their economy was/is not that strong. They had the technology of Sukhoi 35, MIG 35 and PAK FA decade back, but they didn't had enough money to go. Even today, They have not started production of MIG35 and very less Su 35 that also for their own. Once JV with India started, PAK FA came into existence.
     
  20. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    30 year behind US, 20 year behind Russia and 10 year behind France.

    Why you always put French ahead than Russia contrary to ground reality. :pound:
     
  21. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

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    Actually, his real goal is to promo French weapons, he knows the easiest way is to bash Chinese weapon (making Indians believe capabilities of French weapon will help Indian to defeat Chinese, which is what Indian are dreaming everyday)and also rank Russia technology behind that of France, to discount it's main competitor. He can't say French one is better than American one, that will reduce his credibility. So he is doing the best thing posible. But if I were an indian, I would not believe someone who can't tell the difference between AL-31f and
    WS-10.:pound:
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2011

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