PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in China

Discussion in 'China' started by mikhail, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. mikhail

    mikhail Senior Member Senior Member

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    A weak foundation in building sophisticated machinery and a lack of innovation are major obstacles for the People’s Liberation Army in upgrading its latest domestically produced jet fighters, military experts say.

    Major General Zhu Heping – vice-president of the Air Force Command Academy and the grandson of the father of the Red Army, Zhu De – talked about the constraints facing the PLA in an interview with the South China Morning Post.

    He said one key hindrance was the state of the country’s machinery industry, even though the PLA had been upgrading to a more hi-tech force for a decade. Another problem was the lack of innovation in the industry sector.

    Zhu said those 10 years, under the rule of former president Hu Jintao and former premier Wen Jiabao, had seen crucial gains made in military modernisation.

    “Taking the air force as an example, we managed to take a huge step forward by replacing second-generation jet fighters with third-generation ones as the main force,” he said.

    Zhu said big strides had been made in developing anti-aircraft weapons and giving information technology a bigger role.

    “More importantly, we saw an enormous improvement in the quality of our pilots,” he said. “At present you can hardly find an officer who does not hold a bachelor’s degree or higher.”

    More importantly, we saw an enormous improvement in the quality of our pilots. At present you can hardly find an officer who does not hold a bachelor’s degree or higher
    However, Zhu said, Chinese industry had not progressed quite so rapidly. “To be honest, we’ve overlooked the problem of how difficult, complicated and time-consuming it is for us to upgrade the machinery industry in our country,” he said.

    Zhu cited as an example the fact that the air force had to buy foreign engines for home-made fighter jets.

    Before President Xi Jinping went to Russia last month on his maiden overseas visit as a head of state, Beijing and Moscow signed an agreement that will see China buy 24 Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets from Russia – with analysts estimating the deal to cost around US$1.56 billion.

    China can make most of the parts for fourth-generation fighter jets, but falls down when it comes to the likes of the Su-35′s sophisticated 117S engines.

    Hong Kong-based military commentator Ma Dingsheng said having the right materials for the alloy and the proper smelting technique were preconditions for manufacturing high-quality engines – for aircraft, tanks or warships.

    “Beijing could spend hundreds of millions of dollars to buy the aircraft, dissect them and pore over the advanced engines inside and out before trying to copy their design,” he said.

    “But they are doomed to fail to overcome the predicament presented by the lack of the materials and techniques required to make them.”

    He said it would be hard to make significant progress in machinery production capabilities in a decade or two.

    “In my opinion, it’s too early to talk about innovation when China is still left in the dust by its Russian or Western counterparts in this respect,” Ma said.

    Veteran Macau-based PLA watcher Antony Wong Dong said innovative ideas could play a key role in technological advancement but he was not optimistic.

    “Independent thinking is the last thing the current education system under the [Communist] party’s leadership intends to encourage or highlight,” Wong said. “As a matter of fact, this kind of education has long been an obstacle for every single kind of domestic innovation and made things even worse.”

    Wong said a country’s level of advancement in producing sophisticated engines was a perfect yardstick for judging its general level of industrialisation.

    “How can one expect the fruits of self-innovation when everybody’s mindset is focused on anything but independent thinking in the country? Up to this moment, submission is still the overriding priority for millions of mainland students from kindergartens to universities,” Wong said.

    The PLA’s Zhu said he hoped new Premier Li Keqiang could make big strides in encouraging domestic innovation.
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    PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation obstructing development of fighters | idrw.org
    at last some truth about the "so called" might of the chinese aviation industry.man this is some serious stuff said by the PLA general.hope he's not going to face the firing squad soon!
     
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  3. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    off topic, i heard Chinese calls a jet 3rd generation what rest of world consider 4th.any reason?
     
  4. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    yeap, you got it right

    Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2
     
  5. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    China has always been a generation behind. When they got MiG-15, we had Mirage III, they got MiG-21, we had Mirage F1, we had Mirage-2000 and they had nothing. They are only just hitting 3.5 gen aircraft. Their 4th gen like J-20 are just that... 4th gen. It is still no match for Rafale at 4.5 gen.
     
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  6. angeldude13

    angeldude13 Lestat De Lioncourt Senior Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    lol are you serious on that???
     
  7. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    In airforce China is one generation behind. Lol.


    If person admit his problem then it is good sign that soluation can be found soon.
     
  8. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    well, in MR's Armand's eye, J10 is in the league of Mirage III while J20 is in the league of Mirage 2000
     
  9. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    innovation needs money investments.

    as a matter of fact only 3 places in the world can have real innovation in the military field. the US former USSR and EU combined. none of which lacks or lacked sufficent money to pour in the military industry. the best example is russia. when they had money to spend on competing with the US they made lots of fomidable weapons and when they cant have that much money their steps become dramatically slower than before. the EU may be trying to cut the military spending and on a road of becoming another russia although not necessarily.

    minor players like japan israel have got full supports from the US plus probably the EU. even south africas relation with the US and EU was subtle. so even there is innovation its very minor.

    when it comes back to prc what prc can do is obvious. put more money on military build ups and innovation will surely come later. hope people in beijing can understand this.
     
  10. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    i asked for reason
     
  11. angeldude13

    angeldude13 Lestat De Lioncourt Senior Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    well you ain't lucky.because people like armand sir are in minority.
    most of the people in india knows china's capability in modern warfare and that's why you hear about minimum possible deterrence in indian news everyday.
    you know we like to prepare ourselves for the future.:namaste:
     
  12. RedDragon

    RedDragon Regular Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    His title : "Major General Zhu Heping – vice-president of the Air Force Command Academy "

    If I was him, I will say the same thing ---- to get more budget.
     
  13. RedDragon

    RedDragon Regular Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    You can check the generals which have the similar positions like him, you will found that they say the similar words.
     
  14. datguy79

    datguy79 Regular Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    Blame Mao for not industrializing post WWII and putting his legacy ahead of Chinese industrial development. He was more concerned with avoiding the sort of "de-stalinization" the USSR went through.
     
  15. Keshav Murali

    Keshav Murali Back to studies :( Senior Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    IMHO, China can do 10 times better than it is doing now.
     
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    This is an indirect way of Xi indicating a greater defence budget for mor epsohisticated weaponry.

    China usually gives these aggressive and 'open criticism' of the Govt through highly placed officials, the things that they don't want to say officially.

    Same was the case when the US carried out exercises in the SCS with the Philip[pines and Vietnamese Navies, when a PLA General went ballistic against the US.
     
  17. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    more budgets is one thing. how to effectively use the budgets is the other.

    we all know the habbit of collecting some nice sedans and wine by some of our beloved high ranking officers in PLA dont we?


    post ww2? cpc got power in 1949 and in fact the ussr helped prc a lot in the 1st decade in industralizing prc. of course considering russians didnt send army in the korean war that compansation wasnt high.

    dont know if you really mean it but i do think if there would be no corruption and obviously wrong planning prc would have had home made AC now and manned moon mission can begin. so 50% better than what we are now???
     
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  18. Keshav Murali

    Keshav Murali Back to studies :( Senior Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    You, my stout friend are the only one who has openly criticized PLA generals. :salute:

    P.S. For 10 times, I meant PRC in general for growth.
     
  19. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    Mao made a lots of mistakes in his rule period, industrilization however is not one them. If you check the growth of industrial production between 1949 to 1978, you will be surprised how quick China leap from an agricultural country to the door of industrilization.
     
  20. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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  21. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Re: PLAAF general: Poor industrial foundation, lack of innovation in C

    Well, second generation is MiG-21, that was the last generation of fighter in China. So the current J-10 would be 3rd. The rest of the world considers it a 3++ fighter.
     

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