Pin valley residents threaten to seek Chinese help

Discussion in 'China' started by CCP, Aug 25, 2014.

  1. CCP

    CCP Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pin valley residents threaten to seek Chinese help to improve infrastructure

    MANALI: Peeved at official apathy towards improving infrastructure in remote Pin valley of Spiti in Himachal, residents have sparked a row by stating that they will seek help from neighbouring China if the state and Central governments cannot develop the area. Weak infrastructure was forcing exodus of villagers from border villages, sources said.

    Pin valley shares its border with China and a few villages here are located at distance of only a few minutes' walk from the border. A flood in Kiri rivulet in June 2012 had damaged the bridge which connects 13 villages of Pin valley with rest of the state. Two years have passed and Kiri rivulet is again in spate but the government has not made any provision to build the bridge, sources said. Villagers are putting their lives in danger when crossing the rivulet, making use of the damaged bridge, they said.

    Expressing the pain of villagers, president of Sagnam panchayat Lobsang Tandup said, "If our government has nothing to do with the pain and problems of its citizens, then we will not be averse in seeking help from China." He added that his statement can be condemned, but he is expressing the pain of people.

    Agitated villagers of Kungari and Sagnam panchayats said that everything including road, water supply, power supply and bridges is in a dilapidated condition and the state and Central governments are not resolving their problems since long. China has strengthened its infrastructure close to Himachal and Ladakh so as to increase its military power while Indian government has failed to give them basic facilities, they said. "We are tired of begging from the government. Our people are risking their lives every day," Tandup said.

    Pea is the main cash crop of Pin valley which is bearing the brunt of floods in Kiri rivulet for the last four years. Villagers are not able to take their vegetables to market in time and are risking their lives by crossing the flooded river using the temporary and damaged bridge. "Villagers are dependent on farming for their livelihood. The government should at least build a permanent bridge here," said Kungari panchayat pradhan Chhewang Topge.

    Vice president of National Commission for Scheduled Tribes, Ravi Thakur, said that exodus of villagers from villages close to the border is largely due to lack of infrastructure, which is a matter of serious concern. "It could be dangerous for national security. We need to strengthen the infrastructure in border areas. A temporary ropeway has been built across Kiri rivulet so that villagers can ferry their agriculture produce. Efforts would be made to improve the lives of tribal people. Development is the only way to stop migration from mountainous regions to plains," he said.

    Pin valley residents threaten to seek Chinese help to improve infrastructure - The Times of India
     
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  3. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    Trouble in the border areas and some unrest it seems, classic game of destabilization.

    India needs to develop infrastructure ..... after all who wants to live under an authoritarian regime.
     
  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    No great shakes actually.

    They should be sent clandestinely to China to see for themselves, the plight of the minorities.

    They will come back to Mother Earth.

    Notwithstanding, the people require to have their grievances addressed.
     
  5. kenduffy

    kenduffy Regular Member

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    only two minority groups in China seem to have an issue, Uyghur and Tibetan coz some of them seek independece. Other minorities feel even better than being a majority coz they have a better treatment than the majority, like admission to schools, having the privilege to bear more children, higher probability to be a national/local leader, blabla.
    Actually many Tibetans are fine with the current situation but Uyghurs may feel a little upset due to recent muslim terrorisits issue, coz most of them don't really care about independence.

    For the ppl in Pin valley, if they want to be a part of China and don't seek independence, i don't see why they will face plight
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    You must be a Chinese or Chinese origin.

    EU Flag that you sport is indeed a neat camouflage from which country you come.

    Therefore, you do not understand the power of religion, especially Islam.

    In a totalitarian regime, none can rise against the State and if they do, they will be trampled underfoot as it is happening in Tibet and Xinjiang.

    You are sadly mistaken if you think Tibetans are fine with the Communist regime. No one likes to become a minority in his own land/ region or have his roots wiped out and replaced by a alien culture. China is historically known for Sincising people of areas captured.

    Further, with a closed society where movement is restricted and foreigners are tagged, little news of the reality can come out.

    You know about the Pin Valley because India is a democracy and has a free and independent media.

    If it were a totalitarian regime like China, people like you would have said all is well and all are happy since nothing would be known in the outside world.
     
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  7. brational

    brational Regular Member

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    Border areas in India, specially in the north is largely kept out of Infra development since 1962. The erstwhile thought was that the infra can be used by the enemies during war, but this proved to be wrong concept as the borders need more attention today. Pin valley is populated with Shepherds and small scale farmers and the population is very less to undertake infra developments. The valley remains under snow for more than 6 months tourism is also not grown in this area due to inhospitable climate. The area can only prosper if the Government gives real attention to guard the borders(Military Infra), which I believe the Chinese posters will not like to see. But I believe, this area is under the border area infra development project of the Indian govt and few tunnel projects are also in the pipeline. The GOI will definitely not allow "Come make in India" in Pin Valley.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
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  8. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    This was the worst kind of self defeatist approach one could take.
    We cannot let the enemy sweep into center, hence let the periphery suffer in isolation, for they are the cannon fodder after all. Not really our close relatives.
    Even this cynically immoral approach may have worked till 19th century. But now Military, Communication and Surveillance technologies have advanced so much, that creating infrastructural vaccums like this is not going to deter the enemy advance so much.
    In 1962 did even the great Himalayas stop the Chinese from punching through? And we think not making roads there will stop them? :puke:
    What a blunderous policy to follow for decades, no wonder it has backfired like this now !!
    Forget about being proactive and foreseeing, even in reaction we're so slow to correct this, that it took the first decade of 12st century for GoI to publicy acknowledge the need of U turn on this thing.
    Now we can easily predict another decade's ETA for some fix to be implemented.
     
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  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    If I may put it in the correct perspective.

    As the battle moves on further, it become essential to bring the areas under artillery range to support the battle.

    In earlier days, it made sense not to develop since artillery requires roads and if it were underdeveloped, the enemy artillery could not cover larger reaches of their interest, while it could for the defender. Therefore, in the unequal environment, the enemy could not attempt deeper penetration and capture.

    Today, the environment is different.

    The range of artillery pieces is highly extended and then there are missiles and rocket artillery.

    Therefore, the 'protection' that underdeveloped terrain gave is no longer there.

    Hence, we require to extend our reach too for counter bombardment and so on.

    Therefore, the requirement to have the necessary infrastructure.

    Further, since we have modernised way beyond 1962, we are no longer, as I see it, defensive.

    We are in a position to 'take the battle into enemy territory', as it is said.

    Hence, the urgent requirement to build the infrastructure to do the same.

    Yet, there is no doubt, that we have not kept pace with the times and woken up late.
     
  10. kenduffy

    kenduffy Regular Member

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    no, there are so many terrible news which are disclosed to the west and India, we know what is happening there. Many westerners who visits Tibet believe many terrible news are twisted and biased.

    As I said, Tibetans and Uyghurs are the only 2 minority groups which face trouble with the Chinese govt. Other minorities are just fine. If the ppl in the Pin valley don't seek independence, there are no reasons for the Chinese govt to disturb them.

    I have been to the China's frontier border near Korea. The Korean Chinese citizens are just fine. Those Korean autonomous cities are built well. They speak Korean, live a very traditional korean life. They have much better treatment than the majority, which the majority Han may dream of. For example, if they bear a second child, the govt even reward them around $6000, while you know if the majority Han Chinese bear a second child, he may need to pay a fine of $10000.
     
  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I am afraid you have not gone to areas that are restricted in China and that is where the rub lies.

    You cannot roam the area at will, as you may do in India.

    Foreign travellers, in China, need valid visas or residence permits to visit 100 locations; the remaining locales requires travel permits from public security departments. Foreigners must travel in a group of five or more.

    For Tibet, individual travellers have been able to travel by land to/in Amdo and Kham without a group, however permits are required for some areas. Official bus travel into the TAR from Amdo in possible only by purchasing appropriate permits and from Kham, an Alien Travel Permit is required to cross restricted and closed areas near Chamdo.

    Also, another problem is that obtaining a visa for travel in Tibet in the last decade has been a mixture of policies and regulations that are always changing. If there is any disturbance with Tibet, then all permits are withdrawn and tourists permitted made to return.

    The very fact that one has to move as a 'group' is to ensure that none can slip away for a clandestine check or meeting people to know what is actually happening within Tibet.

    The 'terrible news' is basically picked up by the Tibetan exiles who can visit Tibet. Sometimes true and sometimes exaggerated.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
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  12. kenduffy

    kenduffy Regular Member

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    as I told you, other minority groups have no intention to be independent and thus the Chinese government is not so stupid to trouble them. There are so many troubles the Chinese govt needs to face, why should it do something stupid?

    The western media has been keeping on the disclose dark side of China, if there are some negative issues related to other minorities, they would be very happy and can't wait to report them.

    If one day, India becomes a super power which challenge the west, the west will begin to pay attention to India, at that time, the conflicts inside India will be reported extensively, and some organizations/funds will pour money into minorities inside India to trigger issues

    look at this
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-yQ5pB5SWQ

    even China's army/police won't beat children like this, if this happens in China, it will be a breaking news for several days. But in India, nothing serious.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2014
  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    No dissent:

    On Chinese brutality, check this:




    And even though in China no one is allowed to video or phtograph police brutality, yet a few do slip by and at least the world comes to know the little that represents the utter torture that happens in China.
     
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  14. esolve

    esolve Regular Member

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    those are tibetan gangsters who beat ordinary ppl on streets and fire the public infrastructure. Yes, those policemen were just so angry that they can't stop revenging. but yes, they should not do like that, it violates law. but they will not beat women as those Indian soldiers.

    you are just talk what in your wild imagination.
    come to china and have a look.
     
  15. brational

    brational Regular Member

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    You are saying that Police brutality in China is a common sight, anyone who visit China will be able to Shoot video/photographs. I hope it is not.
    Indian army never torture/beat women though the Chinese does, they even deployed their tanks to run over. Do you need a link?
     
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  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Of course, anyone who stands up to the Communist Chinese are 'gangsters'.

    And of course, the police are merely angry and taking 'revenge'

    Indeed, they should not break the law, even if the Communist Chinese Govt is unjust and tyrannical. Must take it like the factory assembly line robots, like the Chinese!

    However, Indian police beat up women. Very bad. Indian protesters are not gangsters, right?

    Now watch the videos again on the Chinese police atrocities. They have tied up the hands and feet of the protesters and then given the hiding of their life. And should we forget the person who had to be operated and a whole lot of his flesh was gone? I am sure for you that was love and affection that caused it, right?

    Let us see this video of China Chinese police beating a woman & a student even after he was lying on the ground.



    Friend, nationalism is good, but blindness leading to logic and truth deficient jingoism is bad.

    Of course, as per the Chinese brainwashed mindset, everyone has wild imagination and must go to China to see reality.

    Let's have a look at this report by who was/ is in China
    Of course, wild imagination, right?

    and the Chinese police do not beat up women, right?

    Friend, the Chinese Police don't even spare ELDERLY WOMEN!

    You fellows are great in spinning webs of fantasy of your bloodied 'Paradise'.
     
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  17. esolve

    esolve Regular Member

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    what I said is "what Ray has said is just out of his wild imagination", so he should come to China and have a look.

    Indian army never torture/beat women?
    see this link carefully

     
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  18. esolve

    esolve Regular Member

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    in the video you post, the woman is not beaten at all, why do you lie?

    for student, Indian police beat student
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jALYTPeeZw

    rumors about China has been always abundant due to so many anti-CCP or anti-China organizations. They usually mix facts and rumors together, who knows what is true or not.
     
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  19. brational

    brational Regular Member

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    Only the last part is Indian. People are not allowed to come out of their home when curfew is imposed/during emergencies. Moreover, there is no role of Indian army in these and the clips do not show the Indian army in any of the scenes. It is the police (Made up of the same populace) who were controlling group clashes and forcing the women to leave the place for their own safely. Mostly these scenes are from Myanmar. There were no Tibetan in the scene. But you should be happy if India controls the Tibetan Protests during the visit of Chinese officials.

    Btw, Nice Try!
     
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  20. esolve

    esolve Regular Member

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    don't look for excuse, your policemen beat women to make sure they are safe?? XDDDDDDDDDD
    human right abuse is human right abuse, India did poorly in this regard. Just coz India is no threat politically and economically to the west, so the International media don't even want to waste time reporting such issues
     
  21. brational

    brational Regular Member

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    It seems you have too much info on the video u provided, please let us know the Chinese version of the reason why the Police were torturing the women? And please do not talk about Human Rights since you don't have any.

    rumors about India has been always abundant due to so many anti-govt or anti-India organizations. They usually mix facts and rumors together..
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
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