Philippines to stand ground vs bullying of China

Ray

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Thanks.

In EEZ.
 

Oblaks

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well, Japanese surrendered to CHina after WWII, and China(republic of CHina) took over those islands from Japan(including Spratly islands) and claimed those islands since then........

As for Phillipins,,,they didn't claim scarorough shoal until 1990s....they didn't claim Spratly islands until 1970s....
As for the spratlys, they were specified In the treaty of Paris as part of Philippine territory as well as thentreaty between the US and GB. That treaty was written as early as 1935. 1947, the Philippines had demanded that the group of islands occupied by Japan be given to the Philippines and in 1955 notified the UN that the Territory of the Philippines cover that which was specified on the treaty of Paris. In 1956, Filipino explorers effectively occupied the islands and proclaimed ownership. Afterwhich Taiwan reacted by putting up a garrison on the largest island. The Phil govt demanded Taiwan to Withdraw from the island.

As for Scarborough shoal, It was not specified in the treaty of paris but the Philippines has effectively used and occupied the area ever since. If one were to even treat it as an island. One of the basis for claiming a territory is effective occupation. In 1973 it was defined as falling within the baselines which would define where the country's Teritorial sea would be drawn. But if it was considered as a body of water, then it would still be falling within the Philippines EEZ drawing the baseline from the coast of the largest Philippine island, Luzon.

The ROC, now Taiwan, on the other hand after WW2 scouted the islands but has almost abandoned them. Therefore, lacking effective occupation. Taiwan' s claim is being used by PRC as its own claim as of now.
 

William of Tyre

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Territorial waters


Out to 12 nautical miles (22 kilometres; 14 miles) from the baseline, the coastal state is free to set laws, regulate use, and use any resource. Vessels were given the right of innocent passage through any territorial waters, with strategic straits allowing the passage of military craft as transit passage, in that naval vessels are allowed to maintain postures that would be illegal in territorial waters. "Innocent passage" is defined by the convention as passing through waters in an expeditious and continuous manner, which is not "prejudicial to the peace, good order or the security" of the coastal state. Fishing, polluting, weapons practice, and spying are not "innocent", and submarines and other underwater vehicles are required to navigate on the surface and to show their flag. Nations can also temporarily suspend innocent passage in specific areas of their territorial seas, if doing so is essential for the protection of its security.

That is UNCLOS.

Now, who owns the waters?

China?
I doubt it if the tin men will understand this sir...... appeal to logic is not their forte.... their 12th century map shows many continents and islands..... now if they base their claims from that map, why no claim all the continents and islands? Why claim only a tiny little shoal from that map? Idiocracy at its best.
 

William of Tyre

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No matter how dramatically Philippines raises a great hue and cry against China's "bullying", it's all boiled down to basics - Some Basic Facts on China's soverignty over Huangyan Island



All of a sudden Filipina woke up claiming shoals beyond 118° E? Sorry, late to the feast!

And even the US can't resort to MBT legitimately beyond 118° E. US neutral in Scarborough standoff but will help upgrade Philippine Navy | Inquirer Global Nation Let's wait and see how it stands ground alone.
If China is indeed that convinced of a valid claim, then it shouldn't hesitate to bring the matter to UNCLOS, and they should not even hesitate on firing at the Phil vessels, or arresting the Phil Coast guard for violating its internal waters, if the area belongs to them. But why not take one decisive action. Afraid that your "historical claims" is full of holes :shocked: ? I do hope you get the logic...... if you can....
 
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Zero_Wing

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If china so brave why not go to the UN court and solve this like a real civilized country should or you people can't because your claims are so full of holes?
 

nimo_cn

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If china so brave why not go to the UN court and solve this like a real civilized country should or you people can't because your claims are so full of holes?
Only disputed territory should be brought to UN, like Kashmir.

Huangyan Island, on the other hand, is Chinese territory, why would we go to UN?

Next time Phillipine claims Hainan Island, does that mean we have to go UN again?
 

Zero_Wing

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Sending their largest warship to arrest and harrass Chinese fishmen in Chinese water, what should we call that? Showing their muscles to Chinese fishmen?

Like I have pointed out before, Phillippines made a very big mistake by initiating the standoff in the first place. This time Philippines has taken it too far, there is no way China is gonna surrender, even if Uncle Sam is involved, Uncle Sam is the only thing Philippines is counting on.

It is just funny that Phillippines is complaining there are too much wave caused by Chinese Marine Surveillance Vessels and Chinese Fishery Administration Vessels. What else do you expect when you are engaged in a marine standoff? Philippines definitely need to behave themselves and stop acting like a spoilded child.

I am glad that Phillippines are finally sending some fishing boats to that water, it is time for Chinese law enforcement vessels to do their duties, driving away foreign ships from Chinese waters and arresting them if necessary. If Philippines dares send their largest warship to confront Chinese civilian ships again, those who are looking forward to a naval conflict between China and Phillippines will have their wishes fulfilled.

By the way, this is no warmongering, I hope this standoff could be solved through diplomatic dialogues, war is no good for China.
Wow just wow you people have so nerved to say that to us wow its like being told that you can't play on your own park by other city funny
 

nimo_cn

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Wow just wow you people have so nerved to say that to us wow its like being told that you can't play on your own park by other city funny
It it like being told you can't play in my domain.
 

asianobserve

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Only disputed territory should be brought to UN, like Kashmir.

Huangyan Island, on the other hand, is Chinese territory, why would we go to UN?

Next time Phillipine claims Hainan Island, does that mean we have to go UN again?

Exactly there's is dispute because 2 countries are claiming the same shoal. Have you heard of a legal remedy known as quieting of title? This is resorted to when ones title is being challenged and hence the need to affirm it in court via a court judgment. By analogy (obviously this is not available in the UN), since China said it owns that shoal by ancient map (I heard antiques are routinely faked in China...:rolleyes:) then China has more reason to have its title quieted from what it considers as a spurious claim from the Philippines through a UN tribunal.
 
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Zero_Wing

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Only disputed territory should be brought to UN, like Kashmir.

Huangyan Island, on the other hand, is Chinese territory, why would we go to UN?

Next time Phillipine claims Hainan Island, does that mean we have to go UN again?
Well in the International community its not Chinese territory its disputed you people just can't prove it that's all and your government has no respect for Smaller states Panatag Shoal or Bajo de Masinloc is Philippine Territory to make your arrogant nation to understand we should go to UN to solve it peacefully but again since mighty china is afraid to be proven wrong she makes excuses so she loves to use force to get what she want only uncivilized country's don't know to respect other nations.
 

nimo_cn

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Exactly there's is dispute because 2 countries are claiming that island. Have you heard of a legal remedy known as quieting of title? This is resorted to when ones title is being challenged and hence the need to affirm it in court via a court judgment. Since China said it owns that shoal by ancient map (I heard antiques are routinely faked in China...:rolleyes:) then China has more reason to have its title quieted (from what it considers as a spurious claim from the Philippines.
Sorry, just because it is claimed by two, the doesn't mean it is disputed.

If tomorrow Philippine claims Malaysia, does that make Malaysia disputed?

What if Philippine claims Hannan Island? Don't tell me it won't happen. Before 1997, Philippines never claimed Huangyan Island, now they are claiming it. 10 years from now, they will claim Hannan Island, so what? Hannan Island becomes disputed again. No way.

China will not go to UN for such absurd claims made by Philippines, which will make a very bad precedence.
 

nimo_cn

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Well in the International community its not Chinese territory its disputed you people just can't prove it that's all and your government has no respect for Smaller states Panatag Shoal or Bajo de Masinloc is Philippine Territory to make your arrogant nation to understand we should go to UN to solve it peacefully but again since mighty china is afraid to be proven wrong she makes excuses so she loves to use force to get what she want only uncivilized country's don't know to respect other nations.
Please tell me what international community you are talking about. Every time people tries to scare me by pulling the international community card, it amuses me.

Huangyan Island is Chinese territory, it is like a son of China, do you go to court to prove your parenthood just because some random guy says you are not the father. Do you show respect to that random guy which happens to be Philippines?
 

asianobserve

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Sorry, just because it is claimed by two, the doesn't mean it is disputed.

If tomorrow Philippine claims Malaysia, does that make Malaysia disputed?

The Philippines used to claim Sabah but we were able to patch our differences. However, had the Philippines persisted in clouding this territory then I see no problem in bringing the matter to the UN for arbitration.
 

nimo_cn

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The Philippines used to claim Sabah but we were able to patch our differences. However, had the Philippines persisted in clouding this territory then I see no problem in bringing the matter to the UN for arbitration.
You are still dodging the question, please give me a direct and simple answer.

If tomorrow Philippine claims Malaysia, does that make Malaysia disputed? Will you go to UN to solve it or would rather have a fight with Philippines?

You don't see the problem doesn't mean we have to heed your opinion. It is Chinese territory we are talking about, China is under no obligation to follow orders from others. If tomorrow Philippine claims Malaysia, and you think going to UN is a good idea, that is your choice, doesn't mean China has to go to UN this time.
 

Ray

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Well in the International community its not Chinese territory its disputed you people just can't prove it that's all and your government has no respect for Smaller states Panatag Shoal or Bajo de Masinloc is Philippine Territory to make your arrogant nation to understand we should go to UN to solve it peacefully but again since mighty china is afraid to be proven wrong she makes excuses so she loves to use force to get what she want only uncivilized country's don't know to respect other nations.
China was never known to believe in any law or rule that did not suit them.

They talk of unequal treaties when it suits them and then enforces unequal treaties are valid, when it suits them!

They speak from both ends of their mouth!

They don't even know what is 'international community'!
 

Oblaks

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Sorry, just because it is claimed by two, the doesn't mean it is disputed.

If tomorrow Philippine claims Malaysia, does that make Malaysia disputed?

What if Philippine claims Hannan Island? Don't tell me it won't happen. Before 1997, Philippines never claimed Huangyan Island, now they are claiming it. 10 years from now, they will claim Hannan Island, so what? Hannan Island becomes disputed again. No way.

China will not go to UN for such absurd claims made by Philippines, which will make a very bad precedence.
If the Philippines claim Hainan Island ,I'm sure that would be absurd, China has no problem going to the international court as they have a very srtong case. Now let us put it the other way around. If China believes the shoal belons to Them, why will She not bring it up with the international court or she preffers to use her muscles? Huangyan shoal does not need to be claimed as it is not considered as an island. It is considered a shallow body of water. And it is external waters. That is precisely why we have the international law of the seas which China has also ratified. The 1997 claim you were talking about was the time when the Philippines removed the chinese stone marker which was installed there because the truth was a philippines flag was already in there as early as 1965. The Philippines claims that as early as the Spanish colonization of the Philippines, Filipino fishermen were already using the area as a traditional fishing ground and shelter during bad weather. In 1957, The Philippine government conducted an oceanographic survey of the area and together with the US Navy force based in then U.S. Naval Base Subic Bay in Zambales, used the area as an impact range for defense purposes. An 8.3 meter high flag pole flying a Philippine flag was raised in 1965. A small lighthouse was also built and operated the same year.[9] In 1992, the Philippine Navy rehabilitated the lighthouse and reported it to the International Maritime Organization for publication in the List of Lights. So based on effective occupancy, who has the right to the shoal?
 

asianobserve

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You are still dodging the question, please give me a direct and simple answer.

If tomorrow Philippine claims Malaysia, does that make Malaysia disputed? Will you go to UN to solve it or would rather have a fight with Philippines
How can the Philippines claim all of Malaysia? BTW, are you claiming that the Scarborough Shoal is part of the Chinese territory (not just as falling within its EEZ)? Crap! :scared2:
 

Oblaks

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Please tell me what international community you are talking about. Every time people tries to scare me by pulling the international community card, it amuses me.

Huangyan Island is Chinese territory, it is like a son of China, do you go to court to prove your parenthood just because some random guy says you are not the father. Do you show respect to that random guy which happens to be Philippines?
Let us put it the other way around. The Scarborough shoal is Philippine territory. It is like the Philippines' finger. Are you going to give your finger to anyone who likes to take it unless you are willing to give your whole self and be called a slave!
 

asianobserve

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Huangyan Island is Chinese territory, it is like a son of China, do you go to court to prove your parenthood just because some random guy says you are not the father. Do you show respect to that random guy which happens to be Philippines?

How can that shoal be a child of China when it has been sucking the from tits of the Philippines all its life...? :pound:
 
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