Philippines: India Has A Solution To The Chinese Threat

Discussion in 'Indo Pacific & East Asia' started by sorcerer, Jan 23, 2016.

  1. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    Philippines: India Has A Solution To The Chinese Threat


    Even if the United States bases forces in the Philippines that will not mean the U.S. will defend continued Chinese control of Filipino offshore waters. Despite a mutual defense agreement the U.S. did not consider the Chinese seizure of Mischief Reef in 1995 and Scarborough Shoal in 2012 an attack on the Philippines that American forces had to resist. More recently the United States refused to answer Filipino queries about whether the U.S. would intervene if China used violence to enforce its offshore claims by only attacking Filipino forces offshore. Filipinos can count and they know that the expansion of Chinese air and naval power since the 1980s makes any planned increase in Filipino military power useless. The Chinese are too numerous and too strong and if they become too aggressive the Philippines will not be able to resist with current and planned forces.

    That might changes if the Philippines bought affordable weapons that would damage Chinese forces. One way to do this is by using land based anti-ship missiles with enough range and heft to hit Chinese ships. One of the best candidates is from India, which manufactures and offers for export the PJ-10 BrahMos. This three ton missile is 9.4 meter (29 foot) long and 670mm in diameter. It is based on a Russian the Yakhont. Lacking the cash to finish development and begin production of the Yakhont the Russian manufacturer eventually made a deal with India to get it done. India put up most of the $240 million needed to finally complete two decades of development, an effort which produced the long delayed Yakhont and the more capable BrahMos.
    [​IMG]

    The PJ-10 entered service in 2006 and is being built in Russia and India, with the Russians assisting India in setting up manufacturing facilities for cruise missile components. India hopes to export up to 2,000, but no one has placed an order yet. Russia and India are encouraged enough to invest in BrahMos 2, which will use a scramjet, instead of a ramjet, in the second stage. This would double the speed and make the missile much more difficult to defend against. The 3.2 ton BrahMos has a range of up to 300 kilometers and a 300 kg (660 pound) warhead. Perhaps the most striking characteristic is its high speed, literally faster (at up to a kilometer per second) than a rifle bullet. The maximum speed of 3,000 kilometers an hour makes it harder to intercept and means it takes five minutes or less to reach its target. The BrahMos is designed to go after high value targets that require great accuracy and a large conventional warhead. The BrahMos can take out land bases or ships. The high price of each missile, about $2.3 million, restricts the number of countries that can afford it. If China lost some warships to a Filipino BrahMos and sought to stop such attacks with air strikes on the Philippines that would trigger the mutual defense treaty with the United States. China has other ways to retaliate, especially economic. China might pressure Russia to prevent India from selling the Brahmos to the Philippines. But at the moment the Philippines doesn’t have too many workable defenses against the Chinese takeover of Filipino offshore waters, reefs and small islands, which makes new ideas, like land based anti-ship missiles a possibilty.'


    Meanwhile China continues to insist that it owns the South China Sea despite what anyone else in the neighborhood believes or international treaties say. The neighbors (especially Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines) continue to protest and build up their much smaller air and naval forces. Many Filipinos doubt that the United States would stand fast if China pushed hard. There are no signs that China is going to back down when it comes to its many territorial claims on neighbors.

    https://www.strategypage.com/qnd/phillip/articles/20160122.aspx
     
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  3. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    India should sell its weapons to countries in all around the world.
     
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  4. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    LCA and ALH can be exported to them along with naval ships ..................
     
  5. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    Whatever India has produced/producing, it must export. Not just milk and fruits, weapons too !
     
  6. aditya g

    aditya g Regular Member

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    Philippines is an island nation, with maritime conflicts with China. They also happen to have a pathetic navy and coast guard with hardly any force capability.

    India can start small be gifting away a couple of OPVs from Sukanya class which are anyways 25 years old. We have gifted a number of ships to Seychelles, Maldives and Mauritius already.
     
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  7. Rizvi Khan

    Rizvi Khan Regular Member

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    I think rather than gifting India should sell them the latest OPV under long term loan to them. We give it away for free why not sell them with long term loan so the other country won't find it hard to pay it off.
     
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  8. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    They can be the 1 st export of LCA .Last time i check they brought some Korean trainer for their air superiority mission ,LCA will be good for them,may be Japan can foot the bill for them since they are so keen in countering china and with low range they will not pose a major challenger to china as a offensive weapon but will be very good for defensive purpose.
     
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  9. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    Goi won't do anything, Vietnam begged us few years ago for same stuff.
     
  10. Nuvneet Kundu

    Nuvneet Kundu Senior Member Senior Member

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    Philippines is a known trouble maker. During a UN mission in Middle East, there were some Filipino soldiers commanded by Indian commander, they refused to fight under him and on top of it claimed that the Indian commander told them to surrender to the enemy. This caused a big diplomatic row between India and Philippines. There are many such manufactured protests that Philippines has indulged in, not for any logical reason but for ideological reason. Are you aware of the social unrest and insurgencies that are going on in Philippines? Abu Sayaf?

    Philippines is the Christian version of Pakistan.



    We did extend a 1Million $ line of credit to Vietnam and there were other pacts signed. I don't recall the details, all I remember is that it was done after 2014, and Pranab Mukherji went to sign it. He even visited the underground tunnels that the vietcong used to defeat the US.

    Philippines has been the single biggest launching pad for anti-India Christian missionaries and Magsaysay award winning communists (Kejriwal being the latest one). Outside of US and Britain, Philippines is their largest center of Christian evangelism. The Christian terrorists taking part in the Naga and Mizo insurgency are almost exclusively indoctrinated and trained by Philippines as a state policy against heathen India.

    We shouldn't interfere in the China-Philippine conflict. Let communist China squeeze all the Christianity out of their anus. If Philippines wants Indian co-operation, it should have a constitutionally declared policy stating that they will not meddle in Indian political affairs. After all, if Philippines has the budget to send missionaries to India, I am sure it has the funds to sustain its military.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
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  11. airtel

    airtel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Nuvneet Kundu , Philippines , as well as Pakistan are not our real enemy .............these countries are very poor , those western countries use them against us ................if India would progress then we will challenge them , so they created war between India -pak and then sell weapons to Pakistan & so that we could not progress , war between India & china would be beneficial for western countries ................
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  12. airtel

    airtel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Nuvneet Kundu , pardon my ignorance , tell me more about the attitude of Philippines towards India .......how it is a christian version of Pakistan ?? also we all know USA is behind ISIS , so why Abu Sayyaf is fighting against Philippines ??
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  13. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well the Philippines government works for US and now that they know that ,just like Taiwan US will not cover there back in case of attack they are desperate for a cover.Use this opportunity to say that anti Indian activity must stop and they must work for more stability by striking a deal with the Islamic insurgency .
    Plus no weapon will be given for free, it cost them the market price.Use that money to help our defense industry .By engaging with them we will have good relationship with them mean more say in south china sea, with Vietnam, japan, tawain and south korea, all with good realtion with us means we can to china that donot interfere in Indian ocean other wise we interfere in south china sea .
     
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  14. Nuvneet Kundu

    Nuvneet Kundu Senior Member Senior Member

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    Maybe they are being used against us but we still need to impose a cost on them for getting used. If you impose no cost then they won't resist USA at all.

    "how it is a christian version of Pakistan ?"

    Difficult to explain that in a forum post. I've arrived at that conclusion after reading books and watching documentaries, I don't have any ready citations to quote. To give the most simplest version, the western churches pump massive money into Philippine churches, then Christianity is used to buy loyalties of the common masses, this is used to control electoral output, this is used to manipulate the nation into making pro-US policies to the detriment of Philippines itself. Basically Philippines is a US colony remotely controlled by the rich Christians in the US. It's almost as if the US Republicans own Philippines as their private country. This is used as a launching pad to train missionaries in all the other Asian countries, including India.

    In Pakistan, they have Hafeez Sayeed rallies outside mosques, in Philippines, they have this Christian carols :



    Just look at the massive scale of that event, and imagine the funding. Do you think this level of funding could be managed by volunteer contributions or by rich foreign benefactors?


    China has already started buying out rich and influential people in Philippines. China are trying to erode the American influence which they have cultivated since decades. Last month there was a leftist protest in Philippines against American presence! Basically China is aiming to turn Philippines into Nepal. We should let that happen. Athiest-communist Philippines with no American control is easier to deal with than an anti-Hindu Christian state controlled by America.

    This is what Chinese money can buy in a Christian dominated society!

    [​IMG]


    Abhi toh party shuru hui hai! :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
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  15. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    No, Vietnam didn't beg you to sell, they wanted it for free which India can't afford.
    Same happens to Philipine. Last time, it was Japanese saying "no" to their free weapon request.
     
  16. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    So, what is India planning to do? Philippine need a third party's fleet patrolling in that area to defend her interest 24x7. Can India do that?
    And what portion of Indian navy is demanded for this task? 40%? 60%? 100%?

    If the world No.1 navy with hundreds of military jets support doesn't want this job, why do you think India can take it?

    That is the key question, isn't it? They don't have the money.

    How can you engage with them. None of these countries believe you have the means to make any meaningful security promise. None of them is preparing to pay your engagement, let alone your weapons.
     
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  17. airtel

    airtel Senior Member Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
    no smoking , what kind of weed you are smoking ??...............If you have guts then Go & try to capture JAPAN , dont show your strength to countries like Vietnam & Philippines ............your country can not afford any significant war ( same case with India ) , any war will destroy all your Industries & development of last 50 years ..............so STFU and make some more "junk fighter -17 blunder " for Pakistan .
     
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  18. airtel

    airtel Senior Member Senior Member

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    who the hell told you that USA dont want this job ?? policies of USA will change with the government ......................if you want to capture some Iceland of any poor country then capture it now ..............hussain obama is a " NOBEL PEACE PRIZE " winner and he is more concerned about his worthless image ................

    but trump is a war monger ( just like your leaders)................and hell they will definitively interfere ............


    as far as India is concerned we dont have to use even 1% of our navy ................we just have to put 2 AGNI 5 missiles ( with hydrogen bombs ) in each SCS country , can you risk shanghai for Senkaku Islands ??

    If you can give nuclear weapons to pakistaan then why we can not help JAPAN ??

    money is not every thing but JAPAN can easily afford it , hell even japan have all the technology of Nuclear weapons they can make nuclear weapons themselves ......................your country can not do a shit of them ..............

    and scs is full of Oil & minerals , so ...............USA , India & japan will not let you capture that .................you are already interfering in kashmir & you provided nuclear weapons to Pakistan so you have to pay the prize .............

    & yes we are not America ..................we dont fight for money ..............we fight for our nation's pride .

    Google about " shaitan singh yadav "
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
  19. Bahamut

    Bahamut Senior Member Senior Member

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    We will form a coalition and work together,and the coalition we will important member .No one will try to counter china alone .They have the money ,it just that do not want to spend ,Tejas will not cost that much to them
     
  20. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ok, please tell me where USA says that they will defend Philippine's disputed island?

    Trump is politician, he will say anything others like to hear.


    First, you don't have Hydrogen bomb;
    Second, your Agni 5 missile is still far away from operation;
    Third, none of SCS country wants your nuclear weapon as it is useless to them.

    Because Japan doesn't need your nuclear weapons--they have a lot better choice: US.

    Simply they are not allowed to do it and American will be the first one to stop them.

    Yes, American has also interfered, will they also pay the prize?

    You talk about your national pride as much as you want, no one else except Indian cares about your national pride. They need your money. Can you start talking about that?
     
  21. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    No, you won't because no one is willing to pay you and your government is not stupid enough to offer a free ride for everyone while others won't allow India only does lip works.

    Yes, you are right: they have the money, that is why philipines choose Korean T50 instead of F16?
    Tejas will not cost much? With American engine, western electronics and weapons, Tejas is definitely beyond their limitation.
     

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